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Hey, Answerman! [2009-02-06]


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LauraOrganaSolo



Joined: 13 May 2006
Posts: 90

PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 2:08 pm Reply with quote
True. I had discounted them since so many of their events had failed to come together and Purple Sky stopped running.

I sure loved Purple Sky though; I went to pick up copies at various Hot Topics as long as it ran and was quite surprised to see Cure magazine in stock there.

But Cure has no appeal to any but visual kei fans; it's not going to hook non-fans into listening to J Rock, unfortunately.
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tasogarenootome



Joined: 24 Feb 2007
Posts: 547

PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 3:08 pm Reply with quote
In regards to last week's Answerfans - you have to look at anime fandom in two pieces - internet fandom and offline fandom.

Internet fandom's problems are obvious, even in this thread. Daryl from AWO brought up an interesting point in his post about how we're all split off into little niche groups, but I think it comes from both sides. Before I knew much about cosplay, most of the negativity surrounding it that I saw was average anime fans complaining about cosplayers and how stupid cosplay is, etc. Anime fans tend to nitpick and insult and shun fans of certain things even before those fans have created their own niche groups - that's part of what leads to them becoming niche in my belief. I'm definitely not saying that these people don't facilitate their own "sanctioning off" into their own little group, but I think the split comes from the outside as much as do from this little "We're unique within anime fandom" drive on the inside... Plus the annonymity of the internet never helps.

Offline fandom has its own little quirks. I never really knew about anime cons until I was in college. I wanted to go to meet and socialize with other anime fans in addition to attending panels and hitting the dealer's room. It was exciting going to something specifically for anime fans. And when I went to Otakon '07, I was blown away. People were very friendly, very gregarious and it was a far more pleasant experience than I thought being crammed in a convention center in August heat with 30,000 other people would have been.

But...

I can understand people's cynicism and the idea that cons would be a good way to make friends with other anime fans quickly wore off. One of the biggest is this "cons are a way for teens to escape their parents for a weekend and do whatever" issue. Not all teens are this irresponsible, but sorry guys, it's enough of you that it sours the experience. Before going I thought I might be adventurous and save a few bucks by trying to room with other con-goers. I asked each of the people I talked to how old they were and about alcohol and such. Each time I got answers I didn't wanna hear. A lot of underage drinkers who said "We promise not to be too loud." Noise isn't the issue if I'm in the room when the hotel calls the cops and they think I gave you the alcohol! Needless to say, my roommate and I sucked it up and paid the extra money for our own room that weekend.

So, no, I'm not ashamed to be an anime fan. I don't fly my banner high and proud, but if anyone asks or it comes up I'll gladly share. And ironically enough, I've met more anime fans that have become friends that way rather than at cons.
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dabura16



Joined: 31 May 2004
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 4:14 pm Reply with quote
LauraOrganaSolo wrote:
True. I had discounted them since Purple Sky fell apart (which has a huge disappointment).

I sure loved Purple Sky though; I went to pick up copies at various Hot Topics as long as it ran and was quite surprised to see Cure magazine in stock there.

But Cure has no appeal to any but visual kei fans; it's not going to hook non-fans into listening to J Rock, unfortunately.


which is why I'm so pissed that I can't find them in any stores near me anymore
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dragoneyes001



Joined: 07 Feb 2009
Posts: 873

PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 5:13 pm Reply with quote
tasogarenootome wrote:
In regards to last week's Answerfans - you have to look at anime fandom in two pieces - internet fandom and offline fandom.

Internet fandom's problems are obvious, even in this thread. Daryl from AWO brought up an interesting point in his post about how we're all split off into little niche groups, but I think it comes from both sides. Before I knew much about cosplay, most of the negativity surrounding it that I saw was average anime fans complaining about cosplayers and how stupid cosplay is, etc. Anime fans tend to nitpick and insult and shun fans of certain things even before those fans have created their own niche groups - that's part of what leads to them becoming niche in my belief. I'm definitely not saying that these people don't facilitate their own "sanctioning off" into their own little group, but I think the split comes from the outside as much as do from this little "We're unique within anime fandom" drive on the inside... Plus the annonymity of the internet never helps.

Offline fandom has its own little quirks. I never really knew about anime cons until I was in college. I wanted to go to meet and socialize with other anime fans in addition to attending panels and hitting the dealer's room. It was exciting going to something specifically for anime fans. And when I went to Otakon '07, I was blown away. People were very friendly, very gregarious and it was a far more pleasant experience than I thought being crammed in a convention center in August heat with 30,000 other people would have been.

But...

I can understand people's cynicism and the idea that cons would be a good way to make friends with other anime fans quickly wore off. One of the biggest is this "cons are a way for teens to escape their parents for a weekend and do whatever" issue. Not all teens are this irresponsible, but sorry guys, it's enough of you that it sours the experience. Before going I thought I might be adventurous and save a few bucks by trying to room with other con-goers. I asked each of the people I talked to how old they were and about alcohol and such. Each time I got answers I didn't wanna hear. A lot of underage drinkers who said "We promise not to be too loud." Noise isn't the issue if I'm in the room when the hotel calls the cops and they think I gave you the alcohol! Needless to say, my roommate and I sucked it up and paid the extra money for our own room that weekend.

So, no, I'm not ashamed to be an anime fan. I don't fly my banner high and proud, but if anyone asks or it comes up I'll gladly share. And ironically enough, I've met more anime fans that have become friends that way rather than at cons.


I think there's a lot more fractional grouping to fan groups based mostly on self importance " I am there for everyone else is wrong"

the manga readers think anime fans don't know the true story

sub fans think dubs suck

mainstream fans think cosplay is excessive fandom or over the top.

the list goes on....etc....

but each person in any group wants to think their group is the one to belong to because they chose to be in that group and its human nature to feel and express your support for your choices, people naturally think they are not stupid so they will defend their reasons for making a choice because to not do so would imply they were wrong to chose what they did.

unfortunately many people feel that supporting ones choices means they need to deride any deviations from they're preferences.
"you like something I don't. therefor you must be wrong"

its funny how extreme this can get in the anime realm when compared to other forms of entertainment how many people will tell someone they are dumb because they prefer comedy over drama or action movies but this also has in part to do with anime already being considered an underground/unusual social habit by the mainstream of society so for the most part anime fans are already defending their choice to enjoy anime for whatever they're reasons to people around them.

you would think this would bond the different groups together because each has the same problem when dealing with mainstream society frowning on anime as childish behavior except to the contrary many seem to use other groups as examples of how abnormal they are to justify their choice.
"I only read manga its not like I go to conventions and dress up like the characters".....etc....

art is in the eye of the beholder what I prefer to watch will not be the same as the next person I don't discriminate on someones else's choice of entertainment solely on their choice there of. but then again I'm much older than most anime fans I don't consider myself otaku because I'd be hard pressed to name 2 anime producers or directors or any of the casts of the anime's I like the most, never been to any conventions or gatherings and anime is only another form of entertainment to me yet I've probably watched more series than many who are hardcore otaku. yet I really don't have any reason to discriminate vs otaku's because they chose to be otaku unless they do so at the cost of everything around them which would be bad for their lives in general.


the point is there will always be people who chose to do something we don't and those who will like things we don't just because we prefer something one way does not make something different wrong or stupid it'd be nice if people would think of this before making blanket statements about others choices.
------------------------------

your right that as an older person you'd have to protect yourself legally if you were found with underage drinkers glad you chose the safe route the laws don't care if your actually blameless and thats part of being older.needless to say would you have really wanted younger people around you getting drunk and partying when you know their not really part of a party you and your friends would be having?
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LauraOrganaSolo



Joined: 13 May 2006
Posts: 90

PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:34 pm Reply with quote
dabura16 wrote:
LauraOrganaSolo wrote:
But Cure has no appeal to any but visual kei fans; it's not going to hook non-fans into listening to J Rock, unfortunately.

which is why I'm so pissed that I can't find them in any stores near me anymore

I've only ever seen them at Hot Topic.
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VDZ



Joined: 29 Mar 2008
Posts: 35

PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:20 pm Reply with quote
Crossover + video game + anime?
Super Smash Bros. 4. Now with anime characters.
Playable characters include Ichigo Kurosaki, Shirou Emiya, Kirei Kotomine, Kyou Fujibayashi, Mai Kawasumi, Haruhi Suzumiya, Konata Izumi, Kagami Hiiragi, Tsukasa (.hack//Sign), Shinku, Suigintou, Alucard, Shana, Kyouka, Son Goku, Vegeta, V1046-R MAHORO, Naruto, Yugi Mutou and Takumi Nishijou.
It would be the best game ever.
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dabura16



Joined: 31 May 2004
Posts: 18

PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 7:54 pm Reply with quote
LauraOrganaSolo wrote:
dabura16 wrote:
LauraOrganaSolo wrote:
But Cure has no appeal to any but visual kei fans; it's not going to hook non-fans into listening to J Rock, unfortunately.

which is why I'm so pissed that I can't find them in any stores near me anymore

I've only ever seen them at Hot Topic.


that's what I meant
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LordByronius
ANN Columnist


Joined: 06 Feb 2002
Posts: 861
Location: Philippe for America! He is five.

PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 8:49 pm Reply with quote
just to clarify on the whole visual kei thing!

i don't think that cons nowadays being crowded by throngs of obnoxious, loud, hormonal teenagers is due to Jrock or any other specific thing - it's just a natural consequence of the fanbase skewing a certain younger demographic that has become increasingly insular, as mainstream interest in anime has reached its current plateau. christ, i know a drugged-up hippie who goes to furry conventions because they "have awesome raves."

and personally, off the record, all the big, con-going jrockers bore to me tears. yes, l'arc-en-ciel - I GET THAT YOU LIKE U2 AND THE CURE. AND THE DAVID BOWIE AESTHETIC. OK. but sadly they'd put more asses in seats than Brian's Cartoons and Electro-Folk-Music Answer-con ;(

it's something i've learned to live with.

(btw mad props for pimping thingofthings.net, you are a cool dude)[/url]
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LauraOrganaSolo



Joined: 13 May 2006
Posts: 90

PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 9:37 pm Reply with quote
LordByronius wrote:
i don't think that cons nowadays being crowded by throngs of obnoxious, loud, hormonal teenagers is due to Jrock or any other specific thing - it's just a natural consequence of the fanbase skewing a certain younger demographic that has become increasingly insular, as mainstream interest in anime has reached its current plateau.

Okay, glad I'm not one of the few people that feels this way. :B Thank you for your reasonable judgment.

LordByronius wrote:
and personally, off the record, all the big, con-going jrockers bore to me tears. yes, l'arc-en-ciel - I GET THAT YOU LIKE U2 AND THE CURE. AND THE DAVID BOWIE AESTHETIC. OK.

Hahaha. That sounds slightly more BUCK-TICKish than L'Arc, since most of L'Arc's best songs are written by guitarist Ken, who cites bad 80s hair bands as his biggest influences.

Really though, I think the majority of visual kei and the more rock end of the J Pop spectrum have been influenced by David Bowie to a certain degree. His immense success in Japan during his Ziggy Stardust days left an indelible mark on Japanese rock music. I've read in a lot of places that visual kei specifically is a result of Ziggy Stardust's lasting influence + traditional art and theatre (mostly kabuki).

But anyway.
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LauraOrganaSolo



Joined: 13 May 2006
Posts: 90

PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 11:54 pm Reply with quote
I've got more to add, sorry.

animehermit wrote:
penguintruth wrote:
If it's a band that has done a popular theme song for a popular anime, I can accept their presence at an anime convention. Otherwise, I can't approve. Just like those lame LARP rooms at cons. It's not anime or manga-related. I only accept gamer rooms with the understanding that there is some crossover between the two fandoms, but as unwashed and dirty as they say anime fans are, its always the gamer room that smells like a gerbil cage.


I agree most of the time J-rock is not even close to being related to anime.

By these lines of reason, does that mean you think that cons should stop supporting EGL events and panels, live action movies, featuring web comic artists, tokusatsu, Asian ball-joint doll events and panels? Panels on artistry, web comics, etc.? Do you want to outlaw cosplaying non-anime characters?

Seriously, how sternly do you want to draw the line?


Last edited by LauraOrganaSolo on Sat Feb 07, 2009 11:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
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penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
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Location: Penguinopolis

PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 11:58 pm Reply with quote
LauraOrganaSolo wrote:
I've got more to add, sorry.

animehermit wrote:
penguintruth wrote:
If it's a band that has done a popular theme song for a popular anime, I can accept their presence at an anime convention. Otherwise, I can't approve. Just like those lame LARP rooms at cons. It's not anime or manga-related. I only accept gamer rooms with the understanding that there is some crossover between the two fandoms, but as unwashed and dirty as they say anime fans are, its always the gamer room that smells like a gerbil cage.


I agree most of the time J-rock is not even close to being related to anime.

By these lines of reason, does that mean you think that cons should stop supporting EGL events and panels, live action movies, featuring web comic artists, tokusatsu, Asian ball-joint doll events and panels? Panels on artistry, web comics, etc.?


Uh, yes. They should stop. The space those take up could be used for more viewings or panels. At least some of the webcomic material is vaguely anime-ish and several Japanese live-action movies have manga connections. If a band hasn't at least performed any noteworthy songs for anime, they don't belong there.
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LauraOrganaSolo



Joined: 13 May 2006
Posts: 90

PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:09 am Reply with quote
penguintruth wrote:
LauraOrganaSolo wrote:
By these lines of reason, does that mean you think that cons should stop supporting EGL events and panels, live action movies, featuring web comic artists, tokusatsu, Asian ball-joint doll events and panels? Panels on artistry, web comics, etc.?

Uh, yes. They should stop. The space those take up could be used for more viewings or panels. At least some of the webcomic material is vaguely anime-ish and several Japanese live-action movies have manga connections. If a band hasn't at least performed any noteworthy songs for anime, they don't belong there.

Wow. That's just sad. Rolling Eyes It's like you don't think it belongs if it doesn't have big eyes and a small mouth. Alienating large sub-groups of anime fans is a good way to ensure a convention never recoups its losses.

I can understanding wanting to eliminate raves from conventions since anyone could go to a club and dance and it often leads to sexual encounters between underage kids but come on.
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 12:22 am Reply with quote
penguintruth wrote:

Uh, yes. They should stop. The space those take up could be used for more viewings or panels. At least some of the webcomic material is vaguely anime-ish and several Japanese live-action movies have manga connections. If a band hasn't at least performed any noteworthy songs for anime, they don't belong there.


These are all sub-fandoms, no matter how much the people who are hardcore J-rock and ball-joint doll fanatics want to deny it in public - most people discover this stuff through anime. How else would you find out about these bands, living in America? Maybe it was a closing theme that lead you to a message board with hardcore jrock fans and you discovered it that way. Maybe you watched a bunch of Death Note on a Sunday and went online and found someone's L Dollfie and wanted to know more. Regardless, they're all related.

Most big conventions have a lot - a LOT - of time to fill and it doesn't hurt anything to have a few concerts and niche hobby panels to satisfy that audience and bring in more people. Being inclusive never hurt a big public event like a convention. Hell, Anime Expo has 4 days to fill up - imagine if they restricted all that time and programming space and money to ONLY topics and events that were absolutely directly related in some kneejerk observable way to anime or manga. That isn't very inclusive, nor is it inviting, nor is it at all a smart way to run a big convention.
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dragoneyes001



Joined: 07 Feb 2009
Posts: 873

PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:23 am Reply with quote
although having live bands at conventions is a good idea it seems rather odd for any convention beside a (rave oriented one) would set up actual raves. simply because of the security issues that setting poses and the extra cost of policing that kind of event to avoid liability.

don't forget that a convention holder could be sued if a participant at a rave overdoses or gets injured from improperly supervised events at the convention. same as a bar can be sued for a drunk leaving their establishment and causing an accident. that's why live music is usually kept in easy to police venues with large security contingents.

its also why many conventions where there's cosplay only allow safe'd weapons on site while any photo shoots with open weapons only occur at hotel rooms or previously set up areas off site.

liability is a huge issue for any large event and why many activities are simply not allowed or set up away from the actual site.
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ikillchicken
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Joined: 12 Feb 2007
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 6:15 am Reply with quote
LauraOrganaSolo wrote:
penguintruth wrote:
LauraOrganaSolo wrote:
By these lines of reason, does that mean you think that cons should stop supporting EGL events and panels, live action movies, featuring web comic artists, tokusatsu, Asian ball-joint doll events and panels? Panels on artistry, web comics, etc.?

Uh, yes. They should stop. The space those take up could be used for more viewings or panels. At least some of the webcomic material is vaguely anime-ish and several Japanese live-action movies have manga connections. If a band hasn't at least performed any noteworthy songs for anime, they don't belong there.

Wow. That's just sad. Rolling Eyes It's like you don't think it belongs if it doesn't have big eyes and a small mouth.


More like he is claiming that something doesn't belong at an anime convention unless it's animation...from Japan. Shocking, I know.

But seriously, bringing up cliche old elitist mentalities even though he mentioned nothing even vaguely along those lines it's just a half assed straw man argument and only serves to destroy your credibility and the credibility of the legitimate points you follow up with.

I agree that it's a bad idea to exclude sub-fandoms to the extent that only stuff that is directly, inherently related to anime is left. However, there also has to be a limit. If it reaches the point where all these little side shows overwhelm the actual anime, then it's gone too far.
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