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_Archer_
Joined: 23 Feb 2012
Posts: 48
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 Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 12:28 am |
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| RyanSaotome wrote: | | Well, Muv Luv Alternative was the 2nd best selling VN of 2006 (behind only Sengoku Rance) |
What? Alternative was the 6th best selling VN of 2006, and sold better than Sengoku Rance which placed 7th. |
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infiltration.cru
Joined: 28 Jan 2012
Posts: 321
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:40 am |
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RE Slice of Life:
I'm generally not averse to these kinds of shows. For example, I absolutely loved Hanasaku Iroha simply for the fact that Ohana was already a dynamic and individual character by the end of the first episode. Most of her colleagues and friends-to-be started out as relatively typical tropes but became more and more fleshed out over the course of the series.
With Tari Tari I had the feeling that there was absolutely no real purpose driving the main character(what's-her-name?). The only motivation she showed can be boiled to the standard hobby or dream or whatever that almost EVERY main character in such shows has. If it's music or something else, is really completely irrelevant. It's so painfully obvious where this show is going and not a single character(or should i say "type"/"trope"?) has shown any signs of what you could call personality.
Cause, you know, a standard set of anime-proven mannerisms and traits ain't a personality. And if the make-or-break quality of a slice of life anime is the characters, why the heck should anyone care for walking tropes like that? Sure, I'll probably watch the second and third episode as well before I (probably or perhaps) drop it but I can damn well understand why someone who has to watch so much stuff and write about it has a shorter attention span when it comes to stuff like that. |
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Fencedude5609
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 3797
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 2:49 am |
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| infiltration.cru wrote: | | I had the feeling that there was absolutely no real purpose driving the main character(what's-her-name?). |
What? I mean come on. You don't have to like her motivations, but saying that Konatsu doesn't even have one seriously makes me wonder if you were actually paying attention. |
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infiltration.cru
Joined: 28 Jan 2012
Posts: 321
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:01 am |
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| Fencedude5609 wrote: | | infiltration.cru wrote: | | I had the feeling that there was absolutely no real purpose driving the main character(what's-her-name?). |
What? I mean come on. You don't have to like her motivations, but saying that Konatsu doesn't even have one seriously makes me wonder if you were actually paying attention. |
I know it may sound like blasphemy...but seriously. The main purpose for her is getting a choir group together. Substitute that with getting any high school club together. I've seen this often enough. And I also said what I meant by that statement in the same paragraph so that makes me wonder if you were actually paying attention.  |
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Swissman
Joined: 11 May 2006
Posts: 397
Location: Japan
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:05 am |
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| acejem wrote: | | Tari Tari I'm speculating to be one of the 10%, even more so since that wretched Mari Okada isn't part of the writing staff. FYI, she was the person who wrote the really "retarded" crossdressing episodes in Lupin and that waaaahdrama Anohana. Thankgod she's busy doing crazy stuff like AKB0048 and Aquarion EVOL, which I wouldn't touch with a 10ft pole in the first place. |
I don't get all this hate for Mari Okada, drama and/or AnoHana. Is that the new bandwagon in 4chan, or what? ... Seriously.
Pretty sure if you'd mention different names for all those series she has been involved as a writer, no one would constantly blame the writer for what they perceive as "draaaaamaaaa" or whatever is en vogue to be hated for. |
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Fencedude5609
Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 3797
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:14 am |
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| infiltration.cru wrote: |
I know it may sound like blasphemy...but seriously. The main purpose for her is getting a choir group together. Substitute that with getting any high school club together. I've seen this often enough. And I also said what I meant by that statement in the same paragraph so that makes me wonder if you were actually paying attention. |
Oh thats silly. You could do this with any premise of any story ever. Its reducto-ad-absurdum
Konatsu's objective isn't "to get a choir club together", her objective is to sing in the festival, to make up for what happened the year before (and just what did happen? Looked like she was clutching her chest...), and to prove to the Vice Principle that she has what it takes to do all of that. Making the club is the MEANS, not the end.
Paying attention to what is going on in a show is important if you want to actually provide meaningful criticism. Its like Zac's reference to "love interests being introduced", when nothing of the sort even remotely happened. It feels like you just half-heartedly paid attention to the show, and filled in the gaps in your own mind, instead of actually letting the show tell its story. |
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infiltration.cru
Joined: 28 Jan 2012
Posts: 321
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 3:42 am |
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| Fencedude5609 wrote: | | infiltration.cru wrote: |
I know it may sound like blasphemy...but seriously. The main purpose for her is getting a choir group together. Substitute that with getting any high school club together. I've seen this often enough. And I also said what I meant by that statement in the same paragraph so that makes me wonder if you were actually paying attention. |
Oh thats silly. You could do this with any premise of any story ever. Its reducto-ad-absurdum
Konatsu's objective isn't "to get a choir club together", her objective is to sing in the festival, to make up for what happened the year before (and just what did happen? Looked like she was clutching her chest...), and to prove to the Vice Principle that she has what it takes to do all of that. Making the club is the MEANS, not the end.
Paying attention to what is going on in a show is important if you want to actually provide meaningful criticism. Its like Zac's reference to "love interests being introduced", when nothing of the sort even remotely happened. It feels like you just half-heartedly paid attention to the show, and filled in the gaps in your own mind, instead of actually letting the show tell its story. |
Dude, whatever. Wether or not it's the means OR the end: I don't care. Also, I was referring to these specific "plots" where some high school person has some passion simply for the sake of having some passion. Wether or not that's singing, playing badminton or baking cheesecake. For that, they must open a high school club.
Sure, Chihayafure did that as well. But that series actually made me care about the characters within one episode. Tari Tari just puts a set of standard tropes in some high school and gives them some kind of objective.
Why the hell should I care? There's plenty of good and different(Honey & Clover) slice of life stuff out there so why should I bother with something so run-of-the-mill? |
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Betenoire
Joined: 11 Jun 2009
Posts: 32
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:01 am |
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| Fencedude5609 wrote: |
Oh thats silly. You could do this with any premise of any story ever. Its reducto-ad-absurdum
Konatsu's objective isn't "to get a choir club together", her objective is to sing in the festival, to make up for what happened the year before (and just what did happen? Looked like she was clutching her chest...), and to prove to the Vice Principle that she has what it takes to do all of that. Making the club is the MEANS, not the end.
Paying attention to what is going on in a show is important if you want to actually provide meaningful criticism. Its like Zac's reference to "love interests being introduced", when nothing of the sort even remotely happened. It feels like you just half-heartedly paid attention to the show, and filled in the gaps in your own mind, instead of actually letting the show tell its story. |
You also see her clutching her leg as she recalls the event later. (Pure speculation ahead) I'm guessing she had a panic attack of some sort, which would explain her attempt to desensitize herself as she is singing in the public square at the episode end but being careful to do so with her eyes closed much of the time and then she freezes (again perhaps?) when she recognizes the people around her.
And even if that guess is wrong I also got the same vibe from her actions- she isn't forming a club for no reason- she is determined to be a part of this competition no matter what but the choir adviser is still holding the previous year against her and doing the worst thing possible: passive-aggressively placing Konatsu in a position where she doesn't get to practice and thus won't get to participate (anyone who has been part of a choir knows part of what practice for is to get the group to be able to be on the same page and that suddenly inserting even a fantastic singer causes the dynamic to change which no director in their right mind would do before a competition) but she also flat out refuses to come clean to Konatsu as to the reason and trying to have her student bare all the shame and guilt.
In many ways it looks like the series is trying to set up a redemption tale from what the episode presented, though given Konatsu's reaction at the end of the episode it looks like something that is going to have to be worked toward.
Now if someone wants to write off the concept of trying to get redemption that is fine but they are going to run out of anime (and fiction in general) to enjoy really, really fast as the structure of having the protagonist take a shot early in their life/story/whatever but work to rise through it is as old as storytelling itself. Hell, two of the biggest blockbuster's of the current era deal with that as the idea runs throughout Avatar on a couple levels and Avengers has it as well (not sure on Titanic- one might be able to make an argument on overcoming the concept of class though Leo still loses to ice).
And if the idea of comming back from a defeat is that heinous, one best avoid The Dark Knight Rises as it looks to be following the Knightfall path which is all about falling and coming back. Then again, it isn't like One Piece, Dragon Ball, or even Gundam, Evangellion and Fist of the North Star don't use this concept at times as well as they go about their journey. |
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infiltration.cru
Joined: 28 Jan 2012
Posts: 321
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:28 am |
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| Betenoire wrote: | | Now if someone wants to write off the concept of trying to get redemption that is fine but they are going to run out of anime (and fiction in general) to enjoy really, really fast as the structure of having the protagonist take a shot early in their life/story/whatever but work to rise through it is as old as storytelling itself. |
I don't care about the redemption of a character that strikes me as completely uninteresting in every single way. That's about it. Trying to read more into statements like that is- once again- reading too much into them. |
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor
Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 6166
Location: Snake Mountain Cocktail Lounge
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:32 am |
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| Fencedude5609 wrote: |
Paying attention to what is going on in a show is important if you want to actually provide meaningful criticism. Its like Zac's reference to "love interests being introduced", when nothing of the sort even remotely happened. It feels like you just half-heartedly paid attention to the show, and filled in the gaps in your own mind, instead of actually letting the show tell its story. |
Sorry. Seemed like they were introducing love interests to me.
But then I was so busy being completely, utterly bored by this show where pretty much nothing happens that I couldn't properly appreciate it like you do.
My tiny little peanut brain just doesn't "get it". |
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infiltration.cru
Joined: 28 Jan 2012
Posts: 321
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:35 am |
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| Zac wrote: | | Fencedude5609 wrote: |
Paying attention to what is going on in a show is important if you want to actually provide meaningful criticism. Its like Zac's reference to "love interests being introduced", when nothing of the sort even remotely happened. It feels like you just half-heartedly paid attention to the show, and filled in the gaps in your own mind, instead of actually letting the show tell its story. |
Sorry. Seemed like they were introducing love interests to me.
But then I was so busy being completely, utterly bored by this show where pretty much nothing happens that I couldn't properly appreciate it like you do.
My tiny little peanut brain just doesn't "get it". |
I guess joke's on us(by that I mean anyone who doesn't like Tari Tari) since we obviously lack the means to understand and- as a consequence- appreciate the show with its multiple layers and complex narrative structure. |
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Ojamajo LimePie
Joined: 09 Nov 2007
Posts: 458
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 4:56 am |
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| RyanSaotome wrote: |
12, 2,156 Tsuritama
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Tsuritama's numbers don't include Blu-rays. The threshold was really high this week, so there could have been up to 3000ish BD sold and still not ranked. I'd wait for second volume numbers before judging. |
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giapet
Industry Insider
Joined: 18 Jan 2006
Posts: 194
Location: Denton, TX
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 7:49 am |
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| Fencedude5609 wrote: | | What? I mean come on. You don't have to like her motivations, but saying that Konatsu doesn't even have one seriously makes me wonder if you were actually paying attention. |
| Fencedude5609 wrote: | | Konatsu's objective isn't "to get a choir club together", her objective is to sing in the festival, to make up for what happened the year before (and just what did happen? Looked like she was clutching her chest...), and to prove to the Vice Principle that she has what it takes to do all of that. |
Honestly, it's a pretty self-serving objective for haranguing other people into a club, and a little petty to drive an entire series; I think that's why some people a) don't have any interest in the character and/or b) don't really get her objective. (I'm in category "A")
| Fencedude5609 wrote: | | Its like Zac's reference to "love interests being introduced", when nothing of the sort even remotely happened. |
It's an anime. A merchandise-able anime. Nearly every character who is introduced is a potential love interest in the minds of fans, even if they know the show will never address it. It's called "shipping" or "pairing" and yes, guys do it too.  |
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mad mac
Joined: 04 Jul 2009
Posts: 156
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 8:05 am |
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You guys get so defensive about reviews, I swear. I'm probably going to keep watching Tari Tari and all because the animation is gorgeous and it's slim pickings this season, but come on, the first episode was pretty boring. Even for a slice of life show it felt stretched out and mostly uneventful until the end.
So far the only show that's really grabbed me is the one with the Fairy Apocalypse. I'm left eying the rest of the shows that have come out and trying to decide if they even look promising enough to watch the first episode. |
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acejem
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Joined: 01 Sep 2009
Posts: 46
Location: Australia
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| Posted: Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:38 am |
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@Zac: Not sure about some of the others, but I think there has been a misunderstanding. Never did I intend nor say "if you don't like moe, you should get out of the hobby" but rather "if you dislike moe generally and haven't quite adapted", you're going to find it difficult to enjoy modern anime in general, since Tari Tari is actually of the higher end when it comes to moe slice of life/drama because it has "polish".
I haven't watched anime as long as you (about 8 years for me), but I have been watching long enough to know that and generally be good at avoiding the "trashy" moe and fanservice shows, because like yourself I am sick of it. For example, I'm fully with you on the whole Upotte, MSG X debacle that was last season. The reactions back then was... just revolting by some of its fans. If you found Tari Tari boring, no problems. I guess that I just mistakened the tone of your review (like your boosting Blu-ray sales comment), which came out a bit too harsh.
Anyways, apologies, didn't know it was going to turn into another shitstorm. Guess, some people need to calm down.
@infiltration.cru: I agree that opener episodes should aim to grab the viewer. Though it varies from person to person, to me the deciding point is about episode 3 for one-cour series, and the end of an arc for 2+ cour. Remember, Hanasaku Iroha, which had a fantastic start had a run to the dumpster in episode 3, which was frankly awful because it destroyed everything that was set up prior to it. Luckily that series recovered and episodes like that were few in number. We don't know what direction Tari Tari will take since it, imo, set out a bit of everything. Slice of life, potential drama, some "fluff", music and even hint of romance for the shippers :p.
I do fully agree that there are better slice of life/drama series though. As mentioned in my previous posts, noitamina in general, when it's not doing crap like Fractal, Guilty Crown or Black Rocker shooter, is doing intellectual (varies in quality though) series or mature josei/seinen type of dramas.
And yeh Chihayafuru kicked ass. Looking forward to S2.
@Giapet: To this very day, I still don't understand (nor why) the way shippers operate the way they do . And some shipping pairs fans come up with are total "crack pairings" to the point it's unintentionally hilarious
As for the rest of the season, think I'm going to have for the 2nd week since it's been very unimpressive so far. Jinrui was pretty trippy and interesting but not sure if it'll be the same quality that Tsuritama over Mawaru Penguindrum was a few seasons back. Will see though. However, I do have a pet peeve. I wish the ": D" meme would stop ffs lol.
Last edited by acejem on Wed Jul 04, 2012 9:47 am; edited 1 time in total |
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