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[Fix] Manga English Titles




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Chibi Shoujo



Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 83
Location: Wisconsin, USA

PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 5:15 pm Reply with quote
Based on the FAQ entry below, I believe this manga#8124 needs to be updated so that the alternate title "Fall in Love Like a Comic! Continued" is the proper title and "Zoku Manga Mitaina Koi Shitai!" would be an alternate title.

Viz Media technically treated it as a second volume for the original story, but it was still translated as "Fall in Love Like a Comic".

doc-watson42 wrote:
doc-watson42 wrote:
How are the main titles of Encyclopedia entries chosen?

Basically, we have decided on having the english title as main title of an anime (whenever possible). This is really just a matter of policy because either japanese or english would be fine. We chose english because ANN is an english-language website. We definitely want the main title to be the official english name when the anime has been licensed. For unlicensed anime... the japanese name would probably be the best option. Apart from that, this is not really an issue. Main titles and alternative titles are both displayed in the encyclopedia, and they both lead to the same page. Mon 08 Jul 2002 01:19 am


Last edited by Chibi Shoujo on Thu Apr 16, 2015 7:06 pm; edited 1 time in total
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octopodpie
ANN Associate Editor


Joined: 02 May 2011
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Location: Washington State

PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 9:41 pm Reply with quote
Based on what you quoted there and the info, the title shouldn't change since Viz didn't release the volume as "Fall in Love Like a Comic Continued." In fact, that English title shouldn't be included at all because it's just a translation of the Japanese but not an official title.
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Chibi Shoujo



Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 83
Location: Wisconsin, USA

PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 10:10 pm Reply with quote
Oh. I guess I am a little confused. I thought that since Viz Media did translate it into English (even if it was treated as a second volume rather than a stand-alone; source), that the English title would be preferred over the Japanese.

Maybe not... Embarassed
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octopodpie
ANN Associate Editor


Joined: 02 May 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 15, 2015 11:04 pm Reply with quote
Oh, I see what you mean. Viz definitely did release it just as "Fall in Love Like a Comic" but since its Japanese release was under a different title, there are two entries.Another editor should weigh in on their opinion too Smile
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Chibi Shoujo



Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 83
Location: Wisconsin, USA

PostPosted: Thu Apr 16, 2015 7:06 pm Reply with quote
Just wondering if there's been any discussion on this further?

Also, this manga#16107 needs to be updated to its English publication title. Based on this:

Shiroi Hane wrote:
It can't be renamed, but if you submit that as an alternative title it can be made the primary.


I tried submitting the alternative title "Your Lie in April" in English, but it told me that the title already exists. I think that's because somebody submitted it under French.
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor


Joined: 08 Dec 2003
Posts: 9735
Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC

PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 7:54 am Reply with quote
Chibi Shoujo wrote:
Just wondering if there's been any discussion on this further?

In the past, alternative titles were not necessary official titles, as a title might take years or even forever before an official title becomes available; titles widely used among fans were allowed. That's why I allowed it to stay. Even in Japan, long titles are often unofficially abbreviated to short (no more than four syllables) titles.

However, with pre-broadcast license and simulcasts more and more readily available, the policy might worth reconsidering.

Chibi Shoujo wrote:
Also, this manga#16107 needs to be updated to its English publication title. Based on this:

Looks like it has been fixed now.
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Chibi Shoujo



Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 83
Location: Wisconsin, USA

PostPosted: Fri Apr 17, 2015 1:29 pm Reply with quote
I think I get it. But just so I understand for my clarification:

まんがみたいな恋したいっ!(manga mitaina koishitai) was officially translated by Viz Media as "Fall in love like a comic!". (source)
Because 続・まんがみたいな恋したいっ!(zoku manga mitaina koishitai [where "zoku" essentially means 'sequel' or 'continued']) was officially translated by Viz Media also as "Fall in love like a comic!" as a second volume (source), the alternative title "Fall in Love Like a Comic! Continued" is a fan translation, so it cannot be used as the main entry title.

Correct?
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Shiroi Hane
Encyclopedia Editor


Joined: 25 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 6:43 pm Reply with quote
I'm geolocked out of your links, but going by the cover.. if it was an anime I would set the main title for "Zoku Manga Mitaina Koi Shitai!" as "Fall in love like a comic! (TV2)". I'm not sure if that even works for manga.

Talking about alt titles in general terms, I want to say there to be a direct translation of the title, especially when the official title is something different, and that was my opinion back before I was an editor however... there is rarely just a single possible translation so if there is no "official" translation of the Japanese who's translation to use? We can (and have) ended up with a string of alternative titles.
ANN's information gets copies and spread about so much that, especially for older entries, it's hard to tell if a given name originally came form somewhere else or is just something an ANN user came up with themselves.
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor


Joined: 08 Dec 2003
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Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC

PostPosted: Wed Apr 29, 2015 11:09 pm Reply with quote
Shiroi Hane wrote:
however... there is rarely just a single possible translation so if there is no "official" translation of the Japanese who's translation to use? We can (and have) ended up with a string of alternative titles.

I believe some of my favorite titles are "victims." Anime smallmouth + sweatdrop

Shiroi Hane wrote:
ANN's information gets copies and spread about so much that, especially for older entries, it's hard to tell if a given name originally came form somewhere else or is just something an ANN user came up with themselves.

Technically we might be able to Google a title with page date specified before the submission date; of course, not every case would turn out with meaningful results.

Such cases are not limited to anime/manga titles. Many news agencies make up their own translation in "[foreign word] (literally '[English translation]')" format.

Back then when anime fandom was a small subculture in North America, having self-translated "alternative" titles would be useful; with simulcasts becoming the norm nowadays, keeping so might only increase unnecessary confusions. Maybe a sunset provision for non-official titles?
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Chibi Shoujo



Joined: 11 Dec 2006
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Location: Wisconsin, USA

PostPosted: Thu Apr 30, 2015 7:14 pm Reply with quote
I haven't looked too much at the anime side of things, but my inclination would be to use English as the main title for an entry only if it is the "official" translation by an English licensor. As far as I understand it, they've received permissions to license the manga under that title for the English-speaking world, even if it is not a direct translation of the original title. I don't know if this would be applicable for anime simulcasts or not. Otherwise, I would say leave the main title for an entry as the Japanese romaji.

As for the English "unofficial" translations, I would say it's fine to leave them under the "Alternative Title" category as long as they meet the standard of being commercialized or commonly known names/nicknames. Some fans might only know an anime/manga by an alternative title before it is officially translated, so it would make it easier for them to search the Encyclopedia for that information. But like Shiroi Hane mentioned, the hard part is making sure the source information is correct.

I'm still not sure how this would work with manga like "Zoku Manga..." though, since it was originally two separately titled tankoubon that were combined under one title when translated to English. I kind of like Shiroi's idea of "Fall in love like a comic! (manga2)", but I don't know if that would be more confusing or helpful.

EDIT: There are a few examples of manga out there, though, that it may be simpler to use English as the main title for an entry, even if it isn't the "official" translation. An example of this would be Diamond Life - it hasn't been officially translated to English yet, but the title is in katakana, so the romaji would be "Daiyamondo L/Raifu"; essentially "Diamond Life".
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Shiroi Hane
Encyclopedia Editor


Joined: 25 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2015 2:01 pm Reply with quote
Chibi Shoujo wrote:
I haven't looked too much at the anime side of things, but my inclination would be to use English as the main title for an entry only if it is the "official" translation by an English licensor.

That is exactly how it works, which is why we sometimes have sequels under a Japanese title while the earlier titles are in English.

Quote:
EDIT: There are a few examples of manga out there, though, that it may be simpler to use English as the main title for an entry, even if it isn't the "official" translation. An example of this would be Diamond Life - it hasn't been officially translated to English yet, but the title is in katakana, so the romaji would be "Daiyamondo L/Raifu"; essentially "Diamond Life".

The rules specifically forbid "transliterations of transliterations" in titles so unless Daiyamondo Raifu was the official romanisation in use (c/w "Gosick", "Chrno Crusade" etc) it would be forbidden and Diamond Life would be used.
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dormcat
Encyclopedia Editor


Joined: 08 Dec 2003
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Location: New Taipei City, Taiwan, ROC

PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2015 2:37 pm Reply with quote
Shiroi Hane wrote:
Chibi Shoujo wrote:
I haven't looked too much at the anime side of things, but my inclination would be to use English as the main title for an entry only if it is the "official" translation by an English licensor.

That is exactly how it works, which is why we sometimes have sequels under a Japanese title while the earlier titles are in English.

For the record, there are many cases where an official English (or "Engrish" -- see below) title exists way before any international license has been secured. This title may or may not be the future official English title; in the case of name change, it can be due to typographical or grammatical error(s), possible copyright / trademark infringement, or just word preference.
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Chibi Shoujo



Joined: 11 Dec 2006
Posts: 83
Location: Wisconsin, USA

PostPosted: Fri May 01, 2015 4:10 pm Reply with quote
Shiroi Hane wrote:
Chibi Shoujo wrote:
EDIT: There are a few examples of manga out there, though, that it may be simpler to use English as the main title for an entry, even if it isn't the "official" translation. An example of this would be Diamond Life - it hasn't been officially translated to English yet, but the title is in katakana, so the romaji would be "Daiyamondo L/Raifu"; essentially "Diamond Life".

The rules specifically forbid "transliterations of transliterations" in titles so unless Daiyamondo Raifu was the official romanisation in use (c/w "Gosick", "Chrno Crusade" etc) it would be forbidden and Diamond Life would be used.


I kind of figured it was already covered in the rules somewhere, but just wanted to make sure all bases were covered in my note above Smile I know I'm definitely not the best reference, but I wouldn't want anyone to misconstrue my statement.
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