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Hey, Answerman! - Character Arc de Triumph


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Kidnicky



Joined: 15 Jan 2010
Posts: 79

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 5:08 pm Reply with quote
I think it speaks volumes about the current anime fanbase that someone would be legitimately confused as to why a teen girl sex slave romance show is in bad taste.
This is why I find myself less and less involved in anime fandom, it's slowly being taken over by rejects from Chris Hansen's rogue's gallery.

And LOL at rich white young males bitching about misandry. Wah we're so oppressed.
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Blood-
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Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 14680
Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 7:56 pm Reply with quote
Kidnicky wrote:
I think it speaks volumes about the current anime fanbase that someone would be legitimately confused as to why a teen girl sex slave romance show is in bad taste.
This is why I find myself less and less involved in anime fandom, it's slowly being taken over by rejects from Chris Hansen's rogue's gallery.


Rolling Eyes Any reasonable person recognizes that these kinds of titles are ultra-niche in an industry that is already niche. What evidence do you have that the number of titles like this are growing or that these titles have a growing fanbase? I'm going to go out on a limb and guess you have zero evidence and are depending only on your *cough* razor sharp intuition.
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TitanXL



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 4035

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:13 pm Reply with quote
rheiders wrote:
And, of course, there is a lot more female-oriented manga out there than female-oriented anime, but since you only mention anime, that's what I'm discussing. Apparently fujoshi don't like to buy DVDs or something. (And as a note: I'm not including hentai in this, which includes yaoi and yuri. I admittedly don't know enough about it to discuss it.)


I was speaking for both really. I just lump them all together since anime/manga are such close-knit mediums.

For the record, Comiket tends to be dominated by fujoshi. 4 of the top 6 properties there are fujoshi series: Tiger & Bunny, Hetalia, Sengoku Basara, and Prince of Tennis. The other two are Touhou and Vocaloid, which are shared pretty equal between the genders.

I'm just saying if people really think Japanese media is exploiting solely women they must not get around much. Inazuma Eleven has more circles than Madoka does, and Inazuma Eleven is for little kids; the fujoshi just like seeing little 10 year old boys doing each other more than otaku do for little girls I suppose. Fujoshi have a huge presence in the industry, just maybe not so much the anime part of it, or the part that buys DVD/BDs I should say. Inazuma Eleven doesn't move many home video releases much but sure does attract the fujoshi.
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Sunday Silence



Joined: 22 Jun 2010
Posts: 2047

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:43 pm Reply with quote
Fencedude5609 wrote:
rheiders wrote:
(And as a note: I'm not including hentai in this, which includes yaoi and yuri. I admittedly don't know enough about it to discuss it.)


There are precisely three Yuri-only H anime works produced in the last decade or so.

Just for the record.


Wait, the Japanese don't like girl/girl porn? Lipstick Lesbians? EHHHHHHH?!?!?!?!
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darkchibi07



Joined: 15 Oct 2003
Posts: 3799

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:47 pm Reply with quote
Sunday Silence wrote:
Fencedude5609 wrote:
rheiders wrote:
(And as a note: I'm not including hentai in this, which includes yaoi and yuri. I admittedly don't know enough about it to discuss it.)


There are precisely three Yuri-only H anime works produced in the last decade or so.

Just for the record.


Wait, the Japanese don't like girl/girl porn? Lipstick Lesbians? EHHHHHHH?!?!?!?!


Someone should ask the Answerman about that so we can get a bottom of this.
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walw6pK4Alo



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 7782

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:48 pm Reply with quote
Sunday Silence wrote:
Wait, the Japanese don't like girl/girl porn? Lipstick Lesbians? EHHHHHHH?!?!?!?!


Not unless one of them has a dick, and they seem to prefer that both women do. They really love futanari, then you get into weird territory with whether or not they have testicles or they're newhalves. Straight up pure female on pure female is a rarity.
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TitanXL



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:10 pm Reply with quote
Probably because it's boring.

It's cute for shipping/being slashy/fanart. But for actual hentai, yuri is kinda boring.
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Fencedude5609



Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 5085

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:11 pm Reply with quote
TitanXL wrote:
Probably because it's boring.

It's cute for shipping/being slashy/fanart. But for actual hentai, yuri is kinda boring.


If you ever wondered if porn could be heartmeltingly adorable, the Sono Hanabira OVA will demonstrate.
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Sunday Silence



Joined: 22 Jun 2010
Posts: 2047

PostPosted: Sun Jul 15, 2012 11:32 pm Reply with quote
darkchibi07 wrote:
Sunday Silence wrote:


Wait, the Japanese don't like girl/girl porn? Lipstick Lesbians? EHHHHHHH?!?!?!?!


Someone should ask the Answerman about that so we can get a bottom of this.


Oh, I can see the sh!tstorm with his response.

walw6pK4Alo wrote:
Sunday Silence wrote:
Wait, the Japanese don't like girl/girl porn? Lipstick Lesbians? EHHHHHHH?!?!?!?!


Not unless one of them has a dick, and they seem to prefer that both women do. They really love futanari, then you get into weird territory with whether or not they have testicles or they're newhalves. Straight up pure female on pure female is a rarity.


I dunno, I've seen some work, like Yui Toshiki's Yui Shop, My Sisters, and Mai no Heya. My Doll House though.....
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HitokiriShadow



Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 6160

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 12:10 am Reply with quote
Fencedude5609 wrote:
rheiders wrote:
(And as a note: I'm not including hentai in this, which includes yaoi and yuri. I admittedly don't know enough about it to discuss it.)


There are precisely three Yuri-only H anime works produced in the last decade or so.

Just for the record.


And if lesbians have the misfortune of appearing in anything else, they will almost invariably end up with a penis inside them at some point, usually without their consent.
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eyeresist



Joined: 02 Apr 2007
Posts: 978
Location: a 320x240 resolution igloo (Sydney)

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:20 am Reply with quote
Man, sex is so boring Rolling Eyes

I want to address the question of characterisation, which Brian basically addressed with a generic "Yes! Characterisation is important! You should do it early and often!"

As someone currently attempting to complete my first novel (after numerous previous attempts), I think I'm more aware than most of the mechanics involved. Yes, I said mechanics. Characters don't always spring into existence fully formed, especially if you are dealing with a lot of them. This is where method and technique matter just as much as inspiration.

The first thing to remember is character=story. Plugging characters into a story that has no personal meaning for them usually makes for an unsatisfactory story. Ideally, the main character's personality will relate directly to the themes of the story and goals of the plot.

Second is character depth. The more detail a characterisation has, the more real they seem. Think about their little likes and dislikes, their happy and sad memories, their individual ways of dealing with the world. Don't be afraid to make heroes terribly flawed - but remember to give them some underlying kindness and desire for love, or else they won't be sympathetic.

Third is character detail. Although some scorn them, character charts can be invaluable, not only for keeping a record of your main character's, um, characteristics, but also for ensuring your secondary characters aren't just cardboard cutouts. Here's one I prepared earlier:

Summary: (Age: , Sex: )
Appearance:
Personality:
Likes:
Dislikes:
Greatest desire:
Surprising fact:
Traumatic moment:
As a child:

When you fill one of these out, you'll often notice characteristics bounce off each other and produce more character information (which can in turn help develop the plot).

If you relate a character's personality to the plot, a lot of character detail should emerge automatically, but keep an eye out for things that don't come out that way. In this case, you should (generally) show (not tell) this characteristic. E.g. if you decide that your character has a short fuse, it's necessary to show this play out, which requires planning: what is going to anger the character? How exactly will they react? Ideally you'll make this scene a part of the plot, or at least part of an ongoing process of character development. The same thing applies to character relationships. If, for example, you want two characters to fall in love, you'll need scenes that specifically show (or imply) the characters transitioning from not-love to in-love - things like finding each other attractive, realising they have the same attitudes, the same life-goals, finding that they miss each other.

I hope someone finds this useful!


Last edited by eyeresist on Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:44 am; edited 2 times in total
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Chagen46



Joined: 27 Jun 2010
Posts: 4239

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 1:23 am Reply with quote
Sunday Silence wrote:
Fencedude5609 wrote:
rheiders wrote:
(And as a note: I'm not including hentai in this, which includes yaoi and yuri. I admittedly don't know enough about it to discuss it.)


There are precisely three Yuri-only H anime works produced in the last decade or so.

Just for the record.


Wait, the Japanese don't like girl/girl porn? Lipstick Lesbians? EHHHHHHH?!?!?!?!


I remember reading that Japan doesn't consider lesbian relantionships to be "true" relationships, and being in one is considered immature and "childish", for whatever f*cked-up reason.

Goddammit the more I learn about this country, the more screwed up I realize it is.
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Sunday Silence



Joined: 22 Jun 2010
Posts: 2047

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 5:34 am Reply with quote
Chagen46 wrote:
I remember reading that Japan doesn't consider lesbian relationships to be "true" relationships, and being in one is considered immature and "childish", for whatever f*cked-up reason.


That would slightly explain why in My Sisters, the spoiler[Brother commented on why his sisters porno with another pornographic actress/friend was great, yet the box cover said it was girl-girl, but the following panels showed the two being f!cked by a gaggle of guys. And the brother says that they are doing Lesbo stuff.]

Man, sometimes Porno is so f!cked up when it comes to describing the actual contents of the item itself!!
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Surrender Artist
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Joined: 01 May 2011
Posts: 3048
Location: Pennsylvania, USA

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:06 am Reply with quote
Chagen46 wrote:
Sunday Silence wrote:
Fencedude5609 wrote:
rheiders wrote:
(And as a note: I'm not including hentai in this, which includes yaoi and yuri. I admittedly don't know enough about it to discuss it.)


There are precisely three Yuri-only H anime works produced in the last decade or so.

Just for the record.


Wait, the Japanese don't like girl/girl porn? Lipstick Lesbians? EHHHHHHH?!?!?!?!


I remember reading that Japan doesn't consider lesbian relantionships to be "true" relationships, and being in one is considered immature and "childish", for whatever f*cked-up reason.


I remember reading in Matt Thorn's short essay about attitudes toward homosexuals and transsexuals in Japan at the end of Wandering Son, volume two (volume three comes out today. Buy it, you bastards!) that they aren't treated seriously as identities in Japan. They tend to all fall indistinctly under the term okama. Their sexuality is like a professional affectation, like a comedy accent or smashing watermelons*, not an identity. They’re fine as long as they’re distant clowns to be laughed at. Whereas American homophobia hates the existence of homosexuals, Japanese homophobia only has a problem when they get too close. To quote Thorn, “…in Japan… deviation from the social norm generates social friction.

And there's the concept of the 'Class S' relationship among schoolgirls, which is very emotionally intense, but considered immature and supposed to be cast off as they mature into womanhood to find husbands. (Before they turn twenty five, of course)

Chagen46 wrote:
Goddammit the more I learn about this country, the more screwed up I realize it is.


Well, let's be fair. Almost any country seems screwed-up under scrutiny, especially when it comes to dealing with people who fall outside of social norms. There might be features of Japanese culture that make its missteps more intense or pronounced and there's also those anime fans have an almost religious conviction about the idyllic superiority of Japan, but I doubt that it's too singularly warped. I wonder, for example, if forty percent of Japan's homeless youth are homosexuals or transsexuals who have been rejected by their families.

*By the way, Gallagher is insane and horrible.


Last edited by Surrender Artist on Mon Jul 16, 2012 11:19 am; edited 1 time in total
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icetea00



Joined: 16 Jul 2012
Posts: 48

PostPosted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 6:58 am Reply with quote
TitanXL wrote:
Women get their Tyrant Falls in Love and Gravitation, men get their High School DxD and Sekirei.

Anime is an equal opportunity medium.


No, it's not. The equivalents of Tyrant and Gravitation are Straberry Panic! and Sasameki Koto. There are no shows like Highschool DxD and Sekirei for women. Or I haven't seen one yet. But I am sure they are no where near the amounts of the ecchi shows and manga.

I wonder when female otaku who are not fujoshi can get their sexy reverse harem with close-up bouncing male body parts to the camera, males clothes being completely ripped off every 30 seconds while fighting, males being groped every 40 seconds and male panty shots every 50 seconds?

Surrender Artist wrote:

And there's the concept of the 'Class S' relationship among schoolgirls, which is very emotionally intense, but considered immature and supposed to be cast off as they mature into womanhood to find husbands. (Before they turn twenty five, of course)


I think the "Class S" is just sisterhood. I don't think the majority of those who took part in were real homosexual regardless of whether the view that women must find husbands and depend on men exists or not.
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