Forum - View topicNEWS: Uncertain State of the Anime Industry Profiled
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Unit 03.5-ish
Posts: 1540 Location: This space for rent |
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What further complicates matters is that the merchandise often doesn't factor into US sales. Really, companies relying solely on DVD sales over here has to hurt them a lot of the times, but the fact is that there isn't enough of a consumer market for the associated merch in the US. Certainly this is less-than-ideal because anime is partially made to promote products made by partners/sponsors. |
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fighterholic
Posts: 9193 |
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Yes, that would make quite a bit of sense. There are series out there that I know do not have any kind of merchandise other than DVDs for their sale products, so this can have a profound effect to say the least. One could only wish that there could be more that could be done for these certain series, but if viewership is not up to par of what they expected, or DVD sales didn't do jack squat, then that basically kills the series.
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cnav
 Posts: 143 |
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Certainly not the same rock under which you have been, for a much longer period than me.. Read my post and try to understand what my point was. You can't go on blaming fansubs for anything bad that happens in the anime industry.. You know what.. Many people are introduced to anime only through fansubs. I'm one of them. You get my point... AND I'M PROUD TO CALL MYSELF AN ANIME FAN>>>>> [Mod note: Try to work on your spelling and punctuation. Thanks. ~S] |
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ValkyrieZeroZeroOne
 Posts: 432 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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This statement is something they come up with because they are so set in their business model that they "Must Protect DVD Licences at all cost". For too long they've been unwilling to look at alternative income sources. If they wanted to do something, they could have been looking at online streaming ages ago.
I agree, but again I point to the industry trying to stick too hard and fast to an outdated business model, as was alluded to earlier in the article:
Ultimately, as I said a few weeks back during the Chicks on Fansubs discussion, the fansub problem has been self-inflicted by the industry to some degree because they've had years to do something about it and done nothing. The old business model (broadcasting on Japanese TV to entice purchase of high-priced feature-laden DVDs and merchandise and then selling licences of shows to the US and other countries) has been stagnant. There's been a major window of opportunity on their feet, but they're so obsessed with protecting potential revenue for overseas DVD licences that they've been ignoring other potential streams of revenue which would extend potential income to the scores of shows that air in Japan and never reach DVD release in the US or elsewhere. Yes, the anime industry's been suffering on the back of the global economic collapse. But if they'd done something about the fansub issue years ago, something positive like they're only just starting to do now, maybe not only would they be better cushioned against the economic downturn, but also they would not have allowed the "free anime is an entitlement" attitude that is so prevalent now to spread as much as it has. |
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enurtsol
 Posts: 14761 |
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Silly news article! Nobody uses cels anymore!
(No more factories manufacture them.)
Well, yours is a special case. But here's the issue: you're piggybacking on R1 issues - R1 fansubbers and R1 industry. I explained something about that before here:
Or depend on your Region's fansubbers, instead of piggybacking on R1 fansubbers, because R1 fansubbers are beholden to R1 issues, not yours. Many do want the anime industry to flourish in their region. So while I emphatize with your situation, in the end, yours is still just a "foreign element" within the R1 issues. Yours is not a main issue. That issue is up to your own Region's participants (fansubbers and industry). And as I've mentioned to you before:
Surely there are Hindi (or even English) Indian fansubbers in your Region, at least? With 1+ billion scientifically/engineering-inclined population? 
Both, during good times. The Japanese get money from license fees from R1 companies like Funimation, and R1 companies sell enough DVDs to profit and thus can afford to pay for more Japanese licenses as the Japanese are able to sell more licenses. But if you've been keeping track of the industry lately, nobody right now is making major profit........... except for the Japanese sponsors (not studios) - and if you've read this talkback's article, you know why.
Try to convince business people in your Region who can make a play for it. Or better yet if you can, you can try to be your Region's startup anime company. R1 companies like ADV Films started out as a small 2-man crew too. You can be the Pioneer in your untapped region. It's easier to get in while things are still on level ground, y'know. 
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Unit 03.5-ish
Posts: 1540 Location: This space for rent |
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I won't deny that both the companies and the fansubbers have dipped their hands in the pie that is the sagging state of the industry. Basically, Japan's been slow to adapt new business and distribution models, but fansubbers continue to dole out pirated anime and lots of people refuse to ever pay a dime for the shows even when the legit DVDs pop up. So yeah, no one's entirely blameless in this situation. But with FUNimation and Bandai airing stuff on YouTube and CR wiping its slate clean of its dirty origins, things may be on the upswing down the road. And if they can provide more value-per-dollar (like full episodes in either dubbed or subtitled format for 2 bucks a pop on iTunes or some other service, as well as cheaper boxed sets), things can turn towards the positive.
Also, Valkyrie, and to others posting about the economy: I mean no disrespect, but what we're facing now is nothing, NOTHING compared to the '30s. Anyone who knows anything about early 20th century US history knows that the Great Depression was the absolute most horrible of economic times we'd ever faced. I don't think it'll get to that point again in our lifetimes. |
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Ian K
 Posts: 250 |
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I ran across this interview with the president of Toei's Phillipine wing that is relevant to the current discussion:
http://ghostlightning.wordpress.com/2009/03/02/interview-toei/ Under 'Candid talk about how the business of anime works', the Prez confirms that most of the profits are made on merchandise sales, and that in some cases fansubs have actually led to increased sales (he says Lucky Star didn't catch on in Japan until after international fans got into it). Unfortunately, I don't see how this is going to change business models for distributors in the West, since there doesn't seem to be a large market for merchandise - I sure have no interest in it beyond the DVDs. |
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Ruremi
 Posts: 60 |
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Just the way that companies have continued to stick to their original ways of distributing anime to other countries, just goes to show you that human nature is hard to change if ever at all.
There were plenty of years to try and figure out new ways to make money off of their product after the internet became popular, but they wouldn't change; it's human nature. Remember back when shows were some years ahead of what was being released in the west? The internet came and fans found new ways to see things without having to wait for so long. After even further years went by things didn't change; licensing still took months and after that you still had to wait for it to be released. People get jaded after a while, and when able to, will take things into their own hands. Companies really do want people to stop, but after so many years of the same thing, human nature is what conquers us all. People are too used to watching anime when it's actually new now; same with file sharing overall. Once you get used to things being a certain way, it's hard to up and change. By the time a show gets released now there's already another that people are excited about. Last edited by Ruremi on Wed Mar 04, 2009 6:02 am; edited 1 time in total |
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samuelp
Industry Insider
Posts: 2231 Location: San Antonio, USA |
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Only a small fraction (<20%) of anime programming is shown only on pay channels, and almost none at all only on cable channels. Hardly anyone in Japan even pays for cable unless you live somewhere out in the boondocks with no TV reception. People DO have to pay a fee for NHK, similar to the how in the UK everyone pays a yearly fee for BBS, however it's only about $200 a year. Furthermore, absolutely NONE of that NHK fee ends up in the hands of the anime production companies (well, NHK does air a few anime once in a while, but no late-night otaku stuff). So get your facts straight, Unit sqrt(12). Most anime is tivo's on PVRs and watched for essentially free. Then a small fraction of the otaku who watched the show actually purchase hugely overpriced DVDs of it, which support the industry. You know, I bet if you did a study that compared the fraction of people who watch an anime show on TV (or tivoed) in Japan to the fraction that purchase the DVD, vs. the fraction of foreigners who watch fansubs or legal free broadcasts to the number of people who buy R1 DVDs, you'd find the fraction was pretty similar. I live in Japan. I own a TV with a hard drive recorder in it. I could watch 20 hours of anime a week if I wanted to, essentially for free. |
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Unit 03.5-ish
Posts: 1540 Location: This space for rent |
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You know, you could at the very least respond to me without being condescending or putting on an air of superiority.
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Paploo
Posts: 1875 |
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Well, these issues existed long before the economy problems happened, and you do realize that this isn't some random person saying it, but actual Japanese industry people who have access to sales numbers, and are having their jobs affected? Get out of your Fan Delusion. This is coming from people with actual knowledge on the subject, not stuff fans make up in their heads. There's many issues that are affecting anime, and the economy is one of them, but companies can't overlook the decline in home video sales [a primary source of income for anime production] and the rise in free video sharing. |
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ValkyrieZeroZeroOne
Posts: 432 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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I wasn't saying it was, the crash of '29 was horrendous. So much so that it took another world war to recover from it. And it wasn't just America. Very few countries in the world were immune from it or even partially protected for that matter. It took WW2 and the required economic activity of building weapons, ammunition, aircraft, warships, etc, for the world economy to recover fully. That said, it's not to say that the current downturn is something trivial - unemployment is skyrocketing, mortgage foreclosures are happening everywhere, trade is slowing down. That said, the Anime industry had one of the longest boom runs in recent memory to take control of this huge online potential and didn't. Now it's trying to do it in a time where their revenues (and thus available funds) are decreasing and risk profiles narrowing, and they're having to do this against a situation which could have been to a very large degree avoided. For mine, quite possibly the worst effect of their inactivity during that time was that they allowed the "fansubs are an entitlement" attitude to proliferate, and we'll never know just how much of an effect that would have. |
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samuelp
Industry Insider
Posts: 2231 Location: San Antonio, USA |
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Next time don't state things as facts you know nothing about and I'll consider it. The whole "Even in Japan they have to pay for TV!" is a straw man argument and essentially completely false, and it irks me whenever people bring it up. The fact is people pay far more for television in the US than they do in Japan. The average US person pays $50-100 for cable per month, almost $1000 a year, to get stations like sci-fi and cartoon network that (used to) show anime... In Japan the NHK fee is $200 a year, and you don't even have to pay that if you don't tell anyone you bought a TV  .
The fact is that it IS legally possible to watch a ton of anime for essentially free in Japan, never supporting the industry at all. There are plenty of people who do it, too. College kids and high school kids aren't the ones buying anime DVDs in Japan, because they don't have any money. So all the people on their soap boxes talking down to that 17 year old from India or the Phillipeans and telling them "Watching anime for free and not paying for it is EVIL!" are applying a moral equivalence that is completely false. I'm not saying that anyone in the world should have the RIGHT to watch anime for free in their native language, but just because you do does not give you the OBLIGATION to support the industry either, especially if you have no means to do so. Furthermore, to make the argument that those who cannot afford to support the industry should not be allowed to watch the programs are counterproductive in the long term to the growth and health of the industry. It's from that pool of people who learn to love the medium when young that they then, once they have the financial ability, begin to support the industry. |
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Unit 03.5-ish
Posts: 1540 Location: This space for rent |
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My, THANK YOU for saying you'll "consider" it. I was trying to say that even in Japan there's a basic fee to be paid to broadcasting companies. Whatever, though, I don't want to waste my energy arguing with someone who seems to have such a low opinion of me. 
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samuelp
Industry Insider
Posts: 2231 Location: San Antonio, USA |
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Don't feel so special. All of my posts are condescending regardless of who I am replying to. It's my shtick. |
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