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REVIEW: Claymore GN 14


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Mad_Scientist



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 3:19 am Reply with quote
I was wondering what sort of review this volume would get. I'm pleased to see you enjoyed it a bit more than Carlo at least. I think he was a bit too harsh, though even a diehard fan like myself has to admit the last two volumes have some issues.

I kind of wish they had done things differently for the volume releases. The "Extra Scenes" weren't part of the normal manga anyways, and even though they provide some interesting material, they kind of disrupt the main story a bit when they end up reducing the number of "real" chapters. Now, as you said, it's not just the backstory chapters that caused a drop in quality these past two volumes, but that just makes the timing of them even worse.

The increase in nudity is interesting, because so far Claymore has had almost none. For a series who's main cast is almost exclusively attractive women, it's hard very little of that type of fanservice. These chapters mark it's debut in a new magazine in Japan, I wonder if that had anything to do with it? Or maybe it's just coincidence.

But wait, don't you HATE FANSERVICE? Razz How are you including nudity as a plus then? *mock gasp of shock*
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maaya



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:10 am Reply with quote
Quote:
but the exact way that encounter plays out also casts certain scenes near the end of the anime version, scenes which fans complained about vociferously, in a new light.


Please explain that more in detail ^^
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07241988



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:58 am Reply with quote
Good review. I like the bonus stories. But I wish they had kept it to one story per volume, or put them into a special extra volume, or something. I have always taken delight in that Claymore could show beautiful, strong women, without big boobs, without the need to strip them down, and still have these savage fights. But now.......

I still feel that the nudity is not gratuitous. Probably do to the Awakened Ones transformation, and the fact that they no longer need human morality. Still love the story.
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Key
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 1:21 pm Reply with quote
maaya wrote:
Quote:
but the exact way that encounter plays out also casts certain scenes near the end of the anime version, scenes which fans complained about vociferously, in a new light.


Please explain that more in detail ^^


I don't want this thread to get too sidetracked with this point (as I really want to hold the main discussion on this until the vol. 6 anime review), but for those who don't want to wait: spoiler[one of the main complaints fans made about the climactic battle between Priscilla and Clare (aside from it happening in the first place) was how Clare's victory came about partly because Priscilla conveniently regressed into Child Mode when placed under serious duress. Given that virtually the exact same thing happened in the backstory, that Priscilla would behave that way at a key point in the anime is no longer an inconsistency. ]
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maaya



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:47 pm Reply with quote
Ah ok, I suppose ... that was never one of the points I disliked about the ending -the opposite would have been worse- because Prissy's mental issues have been adressed in both manga and anime way before that, actually since the first time she appeared.

spoiler[But in return, the fact that Clare even managed to fight Prissy - in her "complete awakened form" - for so long ... while Isley, who is way stronger than Clare, was torn to pieces within a few seconds without her using all of her force or really trying ... gets even more inconsistent thanks to this chapter Wink]
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Mad_Scientist



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 7:58 pm Reply with quote
maaya wrote:
Ah ok, I suppose ... that was never one of the points I disliked about the ending -the opposite would have been worse- because Prissy's mental issues have been adressed in both manga and anime way before that, actually since the first time she appeared.

spoiler[But in return, the fact that Clare even managed to fight Prissy - in her "complete awakened form" - for so long ... while Isley, who is way stronger than Clare, was torn to pieces within a few seconds without her using all of her force or really trying ... gets even more inconsistent thanks to this chapter Wink]


True, but you can't really blame the anime for that. I'm fairly certain that chapter spoiler[where it was revealed that Priscilla is stronger than Isley and Riful] wasn't released yet at the time the anime was being made.

If one accepts the anime as an alternate universe, then following the manga exactly an all details no longer becomes an issue. What matters than is whether or not the anime ending fits with what came before, and whether it is (apart from any differences from the manga) a good ending.
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maaya



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:16 pm Reply with quote
That chapter came later, but the fact that Priscilla defeated Isley was stated back in Riful's arc. And since he's following her like that ... he as an abyssal being would never do that if it wasn't for the difference in strength. The chapter with Luciela and Isley, where Prissy scares Riful to death just by standing there, was also already released back then I think.

I don't care whether they follow the manga or not, but the anime ending on its own is no good to me Wink Well, let's come back to that later on.

I think the review is a bit hard on the series, but as a matter of fact, I was pretty bored by the Agatha-arc back then as well and Miata and Clarice can be really annoying.

Fortunately it got a lot better after that. And hopefully they'll get Renee's name right again in the next english volume =)
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Mad_Scientist



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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 8:30 pm Reply with quote
maaya wrote:
That chapter came later, but the fact that Priscilla defeated Isley was stated back in Riful's arc. And since he's following her like that ... he as an abyssal being would never do that if it wasn't for the difference in strength. The chapter with Luciela and Isley, where Prissy scares Riful to death just by standing there, was also already released back then I think.

I don't care whether they follow the manga or not, but the anime ending on its own is no good to me Wink Well, let's come back to that later on.

I think the review is a bit hard on the series, but as a matter of fact, I was pretty bored by the Agatha-arc back then as well and Miata and Clarice can be really annoying.

Fortunately it got a lot better after that. And hopefully they'll get Renee's name right again in the next english volume =)


Well, the final episodes were broadcast after that chapter was released, I just realized, but who knows how much of the anime had already been planned out beforehand. Even if they knew about it, it's something they would kind of have to change if they intended to give the anime any sort of resolution that could make sense. Also, you're incorrect on one detail. spoiler[In the Riful arc, it was stated that Isley defeated Priscilla, not the other way around. Riful wouldn't have been so shocked by Priscilla's strength if she had already known Isley had lost to her.]

Anyways, this is getting off topic, so back on topic, one thing I noticed about the Claymore manga after the timeskip is that there is a pretty big change in focus.

Before the skip, almost all the manga was focused on Clare. Sure, there were some other cool main characters introduced and given development, but Clare was almost always involved as well.

After the timeskip, the focus changed, and a lot more of the manga is now focused on a larger series of events affecting the whole land. It's become more than just Clare's story, and I think both Yagi and the fans may be having some trouble adjusting to the change. I do think that in the chapters after this volume, Yagi handles the shift in focus better. Of course, it helps that even when he's not focusing on Clare, he's focusing on characters like spoiler[Helen and Deneve] rather than brand new characters like Clarice and Miata, neither of which can really carry the story on their own.

I'll be very interested to see the reactions to the next volume, as it includes an interesting set of chapters. It sounds from the review like Theron has at least some knowledge of what is to come, though I'm not sure how much. For those who don't also follow the Japanese releases, I'd recommend trying to avoid spoilers at all costs if you can.
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Key
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 23, 2009 9:28 pm Reply with quote
Mad_Scientist wrote:
After the timeskip, the focus changed, and a lot more of the manga is now focused on a larger series of events affecting the whole land. It's become more than just Clare's story, and I think both Yagi and the fans may be having some trouble adjusting to the change. I do think that in the chapters after this volume, Yagi handles the shift in focus better.


I think you're right about the first part and certainly hope you're right about the second. This is one of my favorite series, but the last two volumes have not impressed me.

Quote:
I'll be very interested to see the reactions to the next volume, as it includes an interesting set of chapters. It sounds from the review like Theron has at least some knowledge of what is to come, though I'm not sure how much. For those who don't also follow the Japanese releases, I'd recommend trying to avoid spoilers at all costs if you can.


Too late on that, I'm afraid. I already have a fairly good idea of what's coming, though I'm certainly waiting for the next American release to get straight on the specifics. Sadly, that's several months off yet. Crying or Very sad
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maaya



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 12:24 am Reply with quote
Mad Scientist: oops, you're right, my memory failed me Anime hyper

I agree that the story has gotten to a new stage, it's not only about Clare and her revenge anymore. But this change is also what keeps me interested in the series. Yagi still manages to surprise me with the new revelations about what happened during the seven years etc. And he does introduce some interesting new characters, who are easy to tell apart from the others and "cooler" than Clarice ^^;

Either way, it's clear that this was all planned from the beginning. To me, everything up to the Northern War was still "setting the stage", introducing the characters and establishing Clare as the lead. After all this is supposed to be about 25 volumes long, we still have some more chapters coming Wink

And imho Yagi does manage quite well to keep track of all the different stories going on in different parts of the Claymore world and he ties them together at the right points.

Quote:
This is one of my favorite series, but the last two volumes have not impressed me.


I lost interest in Claymore during the Agatha-Arc, but that has changed completely now. I hope it will work for you, too Smile
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Westlo



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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 4:39 am Reply with quote
Of all the things complained about in the Claymore anime end this is one you act like was a volatile complaint.. lol? You at least finally agree with me now that the anime can't resume thanks to it's ending... or am I skipping ahead too much in regards to Raki...?
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Key
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 24, 2009 3:21 pm Reply with quote
Westlo wrote:
Of all the things complained about in the Claymore anime end this is one you act like was a volatile complaint.. lol? You at least finally agree with me now that the anime can't resume thanks to it's ending... or am I skipping ahead too much in regards to Raki...?


It was one of the big points of contention at the time, yes.

As for the other comment, I have yet to see anything in the manga that would make it impossible for the anime to resume after an equivalent seven-year time gap. Sure, some of the circumstances would have to be adjusted for, but nothing would prevent the story from going forward in a second animated season. At the rate the content is progressing now, though, it will be another year or two before enough manga content will have been released to justify even a new 13-episode season, much less another 26-episode shot.
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Mad_Scientist



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 3:27 am Reply with quote
Key wrote:
Westlo wrote:
Of all the things complained about in the Claymore anime end this is one you act like was a volatile complaint.. lol? You at least finally agree with me now that the anime can't resume thanks to it's ending... or am I skipping ahead too much in regards to Raki...?


It was one of the big points of contention at the time, yes.

As for the other comment, I have yet to see anything in the manga that would make it impossible for the anime to resume after an equivalent seven-year time gap. Sure, some of the circumstances would have to be adjusted for, but nothing would prevent the story from going forward in a second animated season. At the rate the content is progressing now, though, it will be another year or two before enough manga content will have been released to justify even a new 13-episode season, much less another 26-episode shot.


I don't know, it would be tough, as there are some pretty big differences between the anime end and the manga right before the timeskip. (The following contains spoilers for the anime end and the manga up to just after the timeskip, but nothing afterwards.)

Consider Clare and Priscilla.

Manga: spoiler[Clare hasn't fought Priscilla, or even seen her since Teresa died. Clare wants revenge and hopes to kill Priscilla.]

Anime: spoiler[Clare fought and beat Priscilla, and let her live. She is no longer trying to kill her.]

That alone would cause some troubles, especially depending on what direction the manga goes with that particular storyline. Also, consider Clare and Raki.

Manga: spoiler[ Clare has not seen Raki since they were seperated after Ophelia, and when she returns from the north, she doesn't even know for sure that Raki is still alive. Trying to find Raki is a big goal for her.]

Anime: spoiler[Raki and Clare have been reunited, and are currently together.]

But as you said, it will be a long while before there is enough content to justify another anime season. Maybe they'll be able to figure out a way to work it together, or maybe they'll just give the series a partial or complete reboot. Or maybe we'll never get more animated Claymore.
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Westlo



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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 8:39 am Reply with quote
Mad_Scientist... Claymore has the exact same problem as Soul Eater... the majority of the anime was faithful to the manga... so to eventually redo them they would have to cover a lot of the same ground.. if they had diverged much earlier like FMA and Hellsing I could see redone adaptions in the future.

Key wrote:
It was one of the big points of contention at the time, yes.


It was a minor thing compared to everything else and you know it, Raki was the big one, Prissy spoiler[losing] in a horrible DBZ style fight, the complete flushing down the drain of side characters and the organization.... seriously why bother with the Riful arc!

Quote:
As for the other comment, I have yet to see anything in the manga that would make it impossible for the anime to resume after an equivalent seven-year time gap.


I guess Prissy has been lifting weights for the last seven years than!
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 25, 2009 12:03 pm Reply with quote
I'm not talking about a redo, but a continuation, and I never said they wouldn't have to modify some details. Not much would actually need to be modified, though. Consider the following:

spoiler[Miria, Helen and Deneve, and Clare all went their separate ways at the end of the anime, but agreed not to return to the organization and were proclaimed dead by Galatea, which is not really that different than them faking their deaths as they did in the manga. They're still believed dead either way and still not back with the Organization. They also said they were going to stay in hiding and continue to train, as they did in the manga. Jean is also dead, Pieta destroyed, and most or all of the rest of the Claymores involved in the Pieta campaign are dead either way, and really the three lower-ranked Claymores are just tag-alongs in the manga; their presence has been inconsequential so far. Priscilla is still alive and with Isley, so the only real differences are the presence of Raki and that Clare has had the reckoning with Priscilla that she sought. Since Raki hasn't come up again in the manga since the end of the Pieta incident, a follow-up anime would be going in a new direction on that, but there's nothing in the manga so far that would interfere with Raki replacing the other three Claymores as the tag-along figure. Enough issues involving the Organization and what they were up to are still floating around to give Clare plenty enough motivation to continue to fight, too.]

Given that, I could easily imagine a second-season anime scenario like this: spoiler[Clare, Miria, Helen, and Deneve, with Raki in tow (or possibly left somewhere by Clare - I could easily see him in a "maintaining the homestead while Clare's out on business" scenario), reunite in the North after seven years to compare notes and possibly because some word of Isley and Priscilla's activities in the south have encouraged them to reunite. The events of volumes 12-14 (and onward) play out more or less as written except for the three weaker rebel Claymores, with flashbacks to explain the events in the later chapters of volume 11. A bit of anime-original material might be added in to flesh out Clarice a bit more (one of the weak points of the manga, IMO), but otherwise there'd be little call for changing anything - at least so far, anyway.]

Now, keep in mind that I only have a vague notion of what's been published in Japan past the end of volume 14, so I don't know if there's anything later which messes with this plan or not, but based on what I have read this seems quite feasible to me.
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