Forum - View topicNEWS: Virtual Child Porn Ban Bill Goes to UK House of Lords
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Gilles Poitras
Posts: 476 Location: Oakland California |
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The Comic Book Alliance web site is at:
http://www.comicalliance.org.uk/ On the US home front, the Handley care mentioned above: Judge: James E. Gritzner Location:Des Moines Courthouse Subject: 1:2007-cr-00030-JEG-RAW-001 USA v. Christopher S. Handley Date: 03/30/2009 Start Time: 09:00 AM Type: Jury Trial |
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littlegreenwolf
 Posts: 4796 Location: Seattle, WA |
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I'm wondering where a series such as Revolutionary Girl Utena would fall in this classification. It's not graphic in terms of hentai or anything of the sort, but both a large part of the tv series and the movie are practically nothing but sexual innuendo with a few rape references (there's at least one rape scene), and features a lot nude scenes. The show's whole cast with the exception of Anthy's brother (and he's a major creepy instigator of a lot of these things mentioned) is in high-school and middle school, and even younger. It's mainly all just very suggestive, or just silhouettes, but some of the stuff is rather risque at times, especially if you own any of the art books for the series.
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mufurc
 Posts: 612 |
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I don't think Utena would be affected, after all it's not graphic and most innuendo happens in a symbolic way. I don't remember a rape scene but even stuff like spoiler[Akio taking Utena's virginity] is more suggestive than explicit.
The only scene that could possibly cause trouble is the end of the movie when Utena and ANthy are naked and entwined, but even that is tastefully done and obviously not pornographic. (Well, obviously to me.) |
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Zin5ki
 Posts: 6680 Location: London, UK |
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I admire your resiliance. A large percentage of hitherto legal H-manga and doujin would instantly be outlawed, so punishing all these 'overnight criminals' would be a difficult thing. The legislation may be passable, but the full enforcing of it would require resources in excess of what I assume the powers that be currently have. |
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Josh7289
Posts: 1252 |
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So they'll have to vote the legislation down. |
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ArthurFrDent
 Posts: 466 |
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I think what is being missed here, is what we see in the Handley case for one. Sure you can't hope to police everyone, but you will make ugly examples of a few. That causes a chilling effect, where everyone is suddenly looking at some thing or other and wondering [ala Elfen Lied] well, IS THIS or isn't it? If I have it in my possession, and that is discovered, will I end up having to prove the intent of the author?
Leads me to the second point. "intended to arouse". What reasonability standard will be applied? Yours, or the tsking nanny state that thinks naked people are filthy. Innocent until proven guilty is well and good until you are arrested for something. They may still claim they think you are innocent, but you are no less in jail. The interpersonal relationships you have take a hit, and everyone will begin to wonder WHY you were arrested. For the poster who just imports their stuff, well, that's exactly what Handley did too. Why the postmaster intercepted will prolly come out in court, but it could be as simple as the box was damaged, and they looked at the contents before sending the box along. This is about children, and crimes like that are assumed to need pre-emptive moves... because they often do. The problem here is connecting something that is ACTUALLY illegal, and something that isn't, but is being MADE to be. |
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nynextew
 Posts: 97 |
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The only reason anyone cares to put a ban on this sort of thing, is because they correlate child porn with the ACTUAL act of molesting a child. Sure, we know the difference between the two. Personally, I can't stand lolita-looking type anything; but the officials, governments, presidents and any other legal personnel tend to not make the distinction....because they are lazy and do not want to dedicate their time to something so, "childish."
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Gilles Poitras
Posts: 476 Location: Oakland California |
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Also realize such a ban would include almost all dojinshi, especially ones for many popular series like Ranma 1/2, Evangelion, etc.
Plus how many US released Boys Love manga (YAOI) have teens in near explicit or explicit situations? (This is actually a question as I have no vague idea). |
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Gilles Poitras
Posts: 476 Location: Oakland California |
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I also realize the UK has stricter regulations than the US so what may fly here likely could have trouble there.
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configspace
Posts: 3717 |
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lol, practically all fanservice, ero or not, falls under that category. They might as well ban wanking yourself. |
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configspace
Posts: 3717 |
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Problem is that there is abosolutely no correlation showing that people who view this material become child predators. If that were the case, Japan would be the most dangerous place on earth  when it's actually one of the safer places to be. (Even if you look at the molestation cases they have all been against older girls/women). In fact, reality shows otherwise: REAL endangerment from real crimes is always much more pronounced in countries with more repressive laws. All of this and most everything that's much tamer has already been banned in South East Asia and Saudia Arabia and yet we see a concentration of real crimes from underage sex trafficking there!
I want to get back to the first statement about finding correlations. Many proponents of such laws--be it anime, movies or games, sexual situations or violence--always use this kind of logic: - criminals view this material therefore this material must be causing people to become criminals! where one should be asking: - do non-criminals who view this material become criminals? |
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nicomorr
 Posts: 127 Location: London, UK. |
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This is a sad & depressing time for libertarians in the UK, Alan Moore had it spot on in Vendetta, that man has a nose for big brother like no other.
Just in case any UK cits have not seen this, mosey over & sign the petition: http://petitions.number10.gov.uk/Protect-Comics/ All we can hope is that the House of Lords will be sensible & send the bill back with amendments. Although much weakened in recent years, it is the remaining bastion of cross-party intelligent expertise. The Lords deliberations are often on BBC Parliament (freeview channel 81) & I'll keep an eye out for this bill. Depressed of SW London ...... what an item to wake up to, Nico M Wandsworth |
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hikaru004
 Posts: 2306 |
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It's not like it's completely legal here either. Handley is finding out the perils of doujinshi the hard way IIRC. People would just have to get their jollies in another legal manner or the creators would have to state that the character is an adult in the doujinshi explicitly if questionable activities were occuring. UK has a right to deal with this in a manner that fits their country. |
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nicomorr
Posts: 127 Location: London, UK. |
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What? Who in the UK? Who decides what fits? You saying the government has a given right to decide for us? No way! Gilles Poitras was right on as usual! I've been drumming up support for the petition (actually there are 3 against the bill as it has seriously bad privacy & data protection implications as well) and also on Facebook where there is a group of protesters. We've got the G20 meetings coming right up & London is like a war zone at least in the centre. If this was Tibet the Chinese would be protesting about the lack of freedom to act & live the way we want. England is a police state - just they use the velvet glove rather than the iron fist. We have NO constitution, therefore NO constitutional rights. I decide for myself, thank you, if they'll allow me to. Nico M Wandsworth London UK |
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Zin5ki
Posts: 6680 Location: London, UK |
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The problem with that is doujinshi artists, not being subject to our laws, don't have to include such statements. Due to the sheer amount of characters in hentai titles of a high-school age, in order to get their 'jollies', hitherto law-abiding people would either have to abandon hentai altogether or take a risk with each title they try. |
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