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babbo
Joined: 13 Dec 2006
Posts: 267
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 Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:10 pm |
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| Dimlos wrote: | | You know, I think I'm probably the only person who isn't really fond of Obata's art or the Ohba/Obata duo. |
Not really. I swear it's the new Eva hate or something. And it's actually gotten old already >.>
And as contrived as Bakuman is, I'd say that the whole "let's get married after we're successful" fits Mashiro and Azuki's characters pretty well they both seem to have an almost unhealthy obsession with achievement, and what with them both liking each other it doesn't seem to unatural that they might make such a simple minded decision. Their approach to their relationship looks to be similiar to their approach to their prospective jobs. They have almost no idea what they're getting into and no idea how to approach it; so they set it as a goal or achievement. Again, contrived, but I'd say it fits their characters pretty well. |
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abynormal
Joined: 09 Apr 2008
Posts: 427
Location: Louisiana
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 12:46 pm |
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I find Bakuman amusing and an interesting (if highly dramatized) look inside the Manga industry.
The way I see it, it's a shonen manga about publishing shonen manga. The various tropes and themes found in the shonen manga the characters discuss are also mirrored in their own lives. It has a really meta feel to it.
For example, in most Shonen manga, when a guy falls in love with a girl, she is "the one," no questions asked. Hence we have Mashiro and Azuki, still in high school but pledging to get married after they've become successful in their own fields.
There's even a tournament story to it, with the protagonists "training" to win the next "battle," getting shot down, then "training" some more and winning the rematch. I just feel like the writer is very aware of the story elements and character types they're using. It's at least enough to keep me reading, and if that's the case then the author has succeeded in what he set out to do. |
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minakichan
Joined: 12 Nov 2003
Posts: 1055
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 1:47 pm |
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Whoo Bakuman!
And I know no one wants to hear the whole "it gets better" line about manga, but it really fits here. The first volume kind of stumbles through and feels contrived, but after the series gets going <s>and after the focus on the romantic subplot dies down, thank God</s>, it becomes really gripping. Has a fascinating, if somewhat jaded, view of the industry.
(Also, "homoerotic undertones?" Whaaat? I consider Bakuman to have some of the LEAST fujoshi-pandering in Jump, aside from the shounen ecchi romances like To Love Ru or related things like Rosario+Vampire... but I guess it's a joke, hahaha...) |
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HellKorn
Joined: 03 Oct 2006
Posts: 1669
Location: Columbus, OH
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:22 pm |
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| Carlo Santos wrote: | | Heck, this time he doesn't even manage to come up with an emotional hit on a level with the North No. 2 storyline—these chapters just keep chugging along with Gesicht acting all puzzled as more and more crimes pile up. |
So you like the overblown emotional button-pushing?
I pretty much agree with you that Pluto is a slow-burner. The second volume is an improvement over the first, though, since Urasawa goes from mawkishness to expanding the scope of the story with an obvious Iraq War allegory.
| evilnekohilda wrote: | | Wasn't the English release of Shadow Star edited to shreds anyway? |
Nope. There's a couple edits to two incredibly disturbing scenes (though they're implications are left in-tact), and underwear given to an underage girl in one other scene. This stuff is restricted to volume seven of the Dark Horse edition (volume six in the original Japanese release). |
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Mr Adventure
Joined: 14 Jul 2008
Posts: 606
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:42 pm |
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| maaya wrote: | | Mr Adventure: I think Seinen series generally aren't selling that well and aren't read by all that many manga readers. I've realized that quite a few of them are really superficial and only chose which series to read based on the artwork ... and stuff like Pluto or other more mature styles are generally considered "ugly". And I also feel that manga readers in general are pretty young, so we'd need some more older readers for Seinen series to get the attention they deserve. But at least in Japan Pluto is doing very well. |
That's really too bad. And a real tragedy. But I shouldn't be surprised. American comics are pretty much the same way, Super-Heroes get all the buzz and legitimately smart, nuanced, and entertaining non-super-hero titles get glossed over by the general reading public. Most of your typical Shōnen titles are about as brainless as any American Superhero comic.
I remember making a post about 20th Century Boys, and someone said "all the characters look ugly". Because they all actually look Japanese for once and not white, blond haired, ubermensch, with giant eyes? Lordy.
| HellKorn wrote: | | Carlo Santos wrote: | | Heck, this time he doesn't even manage to come up with an emotional hit on a level with the North No. 2 storyline—these chapters just keep chugging along with Gesicht acting all puzzled as more and more crimes pile up. |
So you like the overblown emotional button-pushing?
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I got to agree, I found the North No.2 bit in volume one brought the whole book to a grinding halt. I mean, it was good, but it got away from all the characters the story had been dealing with so far to do this seemingly self contained story that went on just a little too long. I mean, it pays off with North No.2 exploding in the skies beautifully but still.
| HellKorn wrote: |
I pretty much agree with you that Pluto is a slow-burner. The second volume is an improvement over the first, though, since Urasawa goes from mawkishness to expanding the scope of the story with an obvious Iraq War allegory.
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I thought the Iraq War allegory was a tad heavy handed, but I forgive it because it works contextually with the original story. |
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Gilles Poitras
Joined: 05 Apr 2008
Posts: 274
Location: Oakland California
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:53 pm |
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"a crazy foreign guy by the name of Ryouma,"
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sakamoto Ryoma is one of the most famous reformers of the Bakumatsu. You can't more Japanese than this unconventional visionary from Tosa han who was one of the main figures in the overthrow of the shogunate.
For a good scholarly book on him, and the entire period, I highly recommend Marius B. Jansen's Sakamoto Ryoma and the Meiji Restoration.
For an accurate historical novel I recommend Ryoma: Life of a Renaissance Samurai by Romulus Hillsborough |
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Gilles Poitras
Joined: 05 Apr 2008
Posts: 274
Location: Oakland California
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 2:56 pm |
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Ok one more regarding Peacemaker and my lunch break is almost over:
"Does anyone really care how Saya feels about being a girl at a geisha house?"
Actually this is a brothel, quite a difference. |
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vashfanatic
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 3090
Location: Region 2
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 3:15 pm |
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| Gilles Poitras wrote: | "a crazy foreign guy by the name of Ryouma,"
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sakamoto Ryoma is one of the most famous reformers of the Bakumatsu. You can't more Japanese than this unconventional visionary from Tosa han who was one of the main figures in the overthrow of the shogunate. |
To be fair, though, he's drawn like a foreigner, wearing a cowboy hat and having a hairstyle strongly reminiscent of dreads. It's been long enough since I read these volumes (and they're in storage at my parents' house, so I can't check) that I don't recall whether they had historical notes; if not, and if you have only an otaku-minimal knowledge of the Bakumatsu period (i.e. you read "Kenshin"), then you could easily get confused. |
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MetatronM
Joined: 26 Mar 2004
Posts: 281
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 5:22 pm |
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I really really love Urasawa's take on Astro Boy (the character). He's such a cute kid, discussing topics you wouldn't normally expect "a kid" to be talking about. Investigating a grisly murder scene. Speaking boldly and directly in a manner that reflects his robot nature, yet at the same time showing more overt emotion than any of his other robot counterparts.
Atom is such a timeless character that it's really interesting to see this alternate take on him. And not only that, this take on his character works amazingly well and just feels "right." Cool stuff. |
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konkonsn
Joined: 30 Apr 2008
Posts: 172
Location: Illinois
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 5:35 pm |
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| rizuchan wrote: | | I'm really glad I'm not the only one that thought this; I thought I was turning into a feminist or something. |
What's wrong with being a feminist? 
I like Obata's art, but I agree that Ohba's writing is crap. -_- I'm not a big fan of NISIOISIN either, though he's apparently huge in Japan. But it's a matter of popular taste/writing (which sells) and...good writing (which may sell).[/url] |
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Jedi General
Joined: 27 Nov 2006
Posts: 2485
Location: Tucson, AZ
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 5:58 pm |
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| Carlo Santos wrote: | | I'm going to be honest. The final game of the World Baseball Classic was completely superior to any of the games that were played in last year's World Series. |
I'm sorry, Carlo, but you're not being honest. You're just stating the facts.  No matter how you slice it, last year's World Series was highly disappointing - the Rays hardly put up a fight. The World Baseball Classic final was .... well .... a classic.
| Carlo Santos wrote: | | But that memory of Ichiro whacking the game-winning single will not fade from my mind anytime soon. |
While watching that intense at bat, I kept thinking to myself: "Is he going to do it? Is he going to get the huge base hit?" Then what do you know, Ichiro knocks a two-run single right up the middle. Awesome.
Regarding Pluto, I guess we'll just have to be patient with it. It is certainly a slow-moving series, but it is certainly laying plenty of foundation for future volumes. I look forward to them. |
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HitokiriShadow
Joined: 09 May 2005
Posts: 5634
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 6:58 pm |
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| HellKorn wrote: |
| evilnekohilda wrote: | | Wasn't the English release of Shadow Star edited to shreds anyway? |
Nope. There's a couple edits to two incredibly disturbing scenes (though they're implications are left in-tact), and underwear given to an underage girl in one other scene. This stuff is restricted to volume seven of the Dark Horse edition (volume six in the original Japanese release). |
Really? I've been under the impression they edited quite a bit more than that in the last volume or two they released.
AoD's edited manga list says this:
| Quote: | Shadow Star (Volumes 1+) Dark Horse (Studio Proteus)
Artwork edits: Nudity and violence removed from multiple volumes. Simple lines that looked too much like a vagina, general nudity, nipples, and mangled bodies were some of the artwork that was edited from various volumes of this series. |
I also recall hearing that some of later volumes had multiple pages removed entirely. |
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HellKorn
Joined: 03 Oct 2006
Posts: 1669
Location: Columbus, OH
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 9:17 pm |
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| HitokiriShadow wrote: | | Really? I've been under the impression they edited quite a bit more than that in the last volume or two they released. |
There may be more, though the differences I mentioned are the only ones I've discovered and also have seen other mention specifically. Probably would be useful to crosscheck the two versions. |
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Teriyaki Terrier
 It's Over 9000!
Joined: 26 Mar 2008
Posts: 5515
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 10:41 pm |
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I'll probably be one of the few people to say this, but I really enjoy reading Bakuman (Ghostman) each week. I like how its not all doom and gloom, like some other series are. The cast is likeable and have interesting backgrounds.
As for Shadow Star, not even a hardcore horror/suspense friend of mine would watch or read this series. He said it was way too violent, even after watching When They Cry and Claymore. The series looks very misleading, I would have thought it would be a cheerful and happy series. |
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CCSYueh
Joined: 03 Jul 2004
Posts: 2707
Location: San Diego, CA
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| Posted: Tue Mar 31, 2009 11:54 pm |
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| Teriyaki Terrier wrote: | | As for Shadow Star, not even a hardcore horror/suspense friend of mine would watch or read this series. He said it was way too violent, even after watching When They Cry and Claymore. The series looks very misleading, I would have thought it would be a cheerful and happy series. |
I didn't find it all that horribly violent.
Can't be that hardcore a horror fan.
| Quote: | | If this was supposed to be the way to hook readers into the story, it backfired. Saving the good part for last means having to wade through a lot of horrid D+ material that doesn't even make sense. |
Not a chance she's setting the story up in the first volume as a lot of other manga-ka do, huh? If she's planning on 5 volumes, she has room to show things in a lighter setting before the drama. It's called contrast. Sort of like the line "To be willing to march into HEll for a Heavenly cause" switching to another word to appease the sensitive might please the sensitive, but kills the contrast. I saw Saya as a somewhat innocent girl embarking on a not-so-innocent future |
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