Forum - View topicPhantom ~Requiem for the Phantom~ (TV)
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Well, what about spoiler[Elen lying on the sea of flowers looking all peaceful? If the most important person in her life just died, she wouldn't be doing that, I can assure you. Since she's peaceful at such an inappropriate time, then I see no reason why she can't have smiled when she turned around.] |
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Blood-
 Bargain Hunter Posts: 23770 |
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Well, again dtm42, it all comes down to subjective perception. spoiler[You see Ein lying peacefully in a bed of flowers. I see a devastated woman who may be overcome with shock or even potentially has been shot herself.]
Short of the creators coming out and saying explicitly what they intended, there is no way for us to know for sure what we are seeing. |
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Xanas
Posts: 2058 |
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I'm inclined to agree. I do see how it can be seen either way. What a bizzaro ending... seriously. I thought the whole thing was... the justice of karma or some-such? It's what those phantoms get for killin' so many people
I really wasn't expecting it until about 30 seconds beforehand. It was really dumb. What exactly was the value to anyone in killing them at that point? Was it worth the expense of following them to Mongolia when they obviously had no part against the current workings of any particular organization? I thought it was just incredibly irrational. Explanation of some sort would have been nice. On the other hand, it was more "interesting" than a standard "happy ending." This still doesn't make me dislike the show, and I'm still recommending it but... this ending was goofy IMO. |
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Ktimene's Lover
 Posts: 2242 Location: Glendale, AZ (Proudly living in the desert) |
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Xanas, I agree with what you just said. I personally thinkspoiler[Reiji got shot by someone and part of did think/still does think he died. At least it wasn't as big of a fiasco as Lelouch's death. We know how divided fans got on that]. <--Code Geass spoilers included.
[Mod Edit: Try not to put spoilers for multiple shows in one spoiler tag without a warning. - Keonyn] |
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dtm42
Posts: 14084 Location: currently stalking my waifu |
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Please don't put a spoiler for Code Geass R2 without saying that it is indeed a spoiler for R2 outside of the tags. How are people supposed to know what you wrote until they put their mouse on the tag, by which point it's too late? |
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nightjuan
 Posts: 1473 |
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@Xanas: I think it would actually work the other way around. It's probably not a very good idea to bring too much of reality into the picture, but there are real criminal organizations that are willing to go too far for a vendetta, justified or otherwise, whether you want to consider it irrational or not.
@Ctimene's Lover: Allow me to disagree, not because of my personal interpretation but because that really depends on who you ask. If popular reaction around the Internet means anything at all, I'd say the ending of Phantom seems to be a lot more unsatisfying than the example you've brought up, which was controversial but generally seemed to be received in a surprisingly positive manner, regardless of what people wanted to make of it. |
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Kirkdawg
 Subscriber Posts: 742 Location: California, USA |
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I'm surprised at all the confusion and discussion over the ending, I feel fairly confident in saying what happened-and I think the ending is perfect.
Here's my interpretation: spoiler[we all know Reiji was shot by a silenced weapon by a man who was disguised as an ordinary traveler. This is because the top dog (forgot his name) at Inferno states his intentions to finish them off despite their struggles. So the audience knows that Inferno is still actively pursuing them. Eren turns around slowly, several seconds after this incident (because she hears Reiji collapse)-and then it freezes her last moment of happiness. As time progresses, it begins to fade into nothingness (transparent, yes we know). That was her last genuine smile-the smile Reiji wanted to see. It's a very bittersweet moment because at last Eren manages to smile for herself and be happy. Sadly it's ripped into shreds as she discovers Reiji is dead, and based on the monologue she gave (and knowing her character)-I am 100% sure she turned a gun on herself. Reiji was the reason she was living, her only meaning for existence! She looks to her favorite memory one last time, lies down, and goes to meet Reiji in the afterlife. The bullet shell seals the deal for me on this interpretation, either she took her own life or the assassin finished his job. That's the only wiggle room there (in my head) but I think she killed herself. ] That's my interpretation, maybe it'll shed some light for others. I too enjoyed this series (despite the bittersweet end)-you already know my gripes, but overall that can't bring the series down. Perhaps it'll make it's way to my shelves someday. |
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Kruszer
 Posts: 7983 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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Well, episode 26 was really good with the final showdown aspect and then spoiler[ended totally bad and depressing and sucked major ass. What an awful ending, I'm extremely pissed and disappointed, because the show was so good up until now.
  
This is the type of ending I absolute hate the most. The kind that leave you hollow and make you feel like you wasted your time watching the series and got absolutely nothing out of it.] |
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slipperybogle
 Posts: 43 |
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Watched the final episode this afternoon. Guess I enjoyed the series overall but have to agree with the sentiment above. I think the problems aren't just with the ending but started around the end of the first arc. Beyond whatever artistic choices were made a lot of it just didn't seem to progress logically after episode 10. All of the inferno machinations I found to be kind of confusing and ultimately incidental to the main characters. But the music was pretty good throughout and probably one of the reasons I kept up. |
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter Posts: 23770 |
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@ Kirkdawg: I buy your take on the end. As you yourself note, there are certain things that are impossible to know 100% spoiler[(i.e. if Elen was shot by an assassin or if she shot herself or if something else happened)], but over all I find your interpretation persuasive.
@Kruszer and anyone else who doesn't like these kind of endings: spoiler[I get the disappointment because we've come to like the characters and so want them to have a happy ending. However, as satisfying as that might have been on an emotional level, it's also kind of trite. Reiji killed an innocent child and his mother in cold blood. He continued to kill (and not just to survive) even after his conditioning had been circumvented and he had his free will back. Elen is a little bit less culpable for her actions because her brainwashing seemed to go deeper. Those who live by the sword, die by the sword. Basically, the way I interpret your view is that if a series doesn't have a happy ending, then it is in some way flawed. All I can say is I'm glad there are creators out there who don't feel the same way.] |
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Ktimene's Lover
Posts: 2242 Location: Glendale, AZ (Proudly living in the desert) |
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Since it is among Funimation's most viewed streaming series on their website, I would hope and do see a dub sometime next year.
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nightjuan
Posts: 1473 |
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I'm not in the mood for nitpicking, but the funny thing is that Kirkdawg's interpretation, while valid on its own, doesn't really conflict too much with a more symbolic take on the matter in terms of message alone. The meaning can be the same, essentially, but the question is whether you can buy that outcome as occurring in exactly the same way it was portrayed, which is where I find some remaining problems even after reading the proposed description.
Then again...there will always be more than one way of looking at an ending like this, depending on several factors. In any event, let's go back to basics. If that works for some people I'm certainly not going to spoil anyone's fun. In my opinion the ending was fine and continues to preserve most of its meaning, either way, so that's enough for me. |
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slipperybogle
Posts: 43 |
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For me I mostly wish it could have been slightly less ambiguous. I think they missed an opportunity to resolve some of the open questions and or give some closure to some of the relationships. spoiler[For instance, why are all the phantoms female except for reiji? But otherwise I'm fine with a downer ending.] With regard to interpreting the ending. spoiler[It's not clear that Eren was aware of Reiji getting shot. It looks like he starts walking away right before it happens I guess because he wanted to hang out in a different spot. Then an indefinite amount of time passes. ] |
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Kirkdawg
Subscriber Posts: 742 Location: California, USA |
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Regarding as to why Reiji is the only one that is male, is because he's an accident-an outlier. He was supposed to be killed, but because Scythe thought it would be a waste to waste him (pun intended), he gave him a chance.
I'm guessing Scythe is a bit of a perv himself as part of his character, so he likes training females to become his "masterpieces". |
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Kruszer
Posts: 7983 Location: Minnesota, USA |
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Close but not exactly it's more like spoiler["if the antagonist(s) win and the protagonist(s) die randomly for shock value like punks"] the series' or film ending is inherently flawed and when weighed with the rest of the production brings it down and keeps me from rating it anything higher than Very Good. This is essentially what is wrong with Phantom as well as the movie spoiler[No Country for Old Men] There are acceptable depressing endings out there, those just are not one of them. I could name a bunch of examples of good ones but I went through your list and you haven't seen any of them and so not only would I be spoiling the series for for you but you wouldn't be able to discuss them. 
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