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Why do Americans hate/dislike Hayao Miyazaki's movies?


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LordRedhand



Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Posts: 1472
Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 12:14 pm Reply with quote
I like Miyazaki/Studio Ghibli films myself so news to me about under appreciation, then again I do now that Miyazki/Studio Ghibli films are treated as art films (that is where I saw Spirited Away) so that plays a part in it, as art films are well limited in release. But my personal favorite was The Cat Returns (Ghibli) specifically Miyazaki ( Castle of Cagliostro or Spirited Away)
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Mr. sickVisionz



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 2171
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 1:00 pm Reply with quote
I think anime in general has a decent sized market here in the US. When these movies are at least decent and get a "real" release, which I consider to be 2,000 theaters, they actually do decent. Considering that they are basically foreign films, they usually make like 50% of their total revenue in the US alone.

I don't think the issue is that their isn't a market, but that people in charge don't think there is a market. Some of these anime movies open to like 30 theaters and still pull 1 million in box office. I'm not suggesting that if you open them in 3,000 theaters they'll pull in $100M, but for something like Naruto... if they gave the Naruto movie a run in like 1,500 theaters... I think they could make 15-30 million in box office, which would be more than what the movie earned in it's home territory.

That's not amazing numbers, but that's pretty good considering that anime is so fan driven, that you don't need to really spend crazy amounts advertising. Do some adds on sites like this, crunchyroll and cartoon network and you'll have like 5 good weeks of the movie making 2-5 million at the box office.
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Zin5ki



Joined: 06 Jan 2008
Posts: 6680
Location: London, UK
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 2:02 pm Reply with quote
Though he is by far the most renowned anime director known over here, whose films always dwarf all other titles on our anime shelves in their quantity, I'm not a big fan of his works.
The subjects he chooses to present to the viewer aren't of the sort that would entice me into a cinema or bring me to pause for reflection. To say this may be met with some disapproval from veteran fans, but quite often it is the case that the emotional impact his tales could have on me, considering the skills he exhibits in bringing to life his ideas, are often suppressed by their typically upbeat conclusions. Although it cannot be denied that he provides acceptable reasons for choosing to craft such stories, going by his account of the purposes he gives himself in filmmaking, I think I'd be wise to exclude myself from the audience he targets.

Sorry for technically being off-topic.
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sk1199



Joined: 13 Apr 2006
Posts: 162
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 3:33 pm Reply with quote
I would think that one reason that Disney does not promote his movies like they do their own is profits from marketing. When disney promotes its movies then they get all the profits. If they were to promote say Spirited Away in the same manner they would see less profit. So why throw away money to allow someone else to get a bigger piece of the pie while your margin grows at a lesser rate?
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LKK



Joined: 31 Oct 2007
Posts: 426
Location: Virginia, USA
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 4:08 pm Reply with quote
Although I don't know how to find this information, I think it would be informative to see how well Miyazaki films sold in the DVD market. With the movies only showing in limited release, the home video market may provide better insight into how the American public feels about his movies. With the exception of Howl's Moving Castle, all the Miyazaki movies I've seen have been on DVD, not a theatrical release. The same is also true for my friends who've seen his films. If there's a way to know how many DVDs have been sold (and rented if possible), then I think you have a more accurate indication of his popularity.
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David.Seth



Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 453
Location: near SF
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 8:19 pm Reply with quote
sk1199 wrote:
I would think that one reason that Disney does not promote his movies like they do their own is profits from marketing. When disney promotes its movies then they get all the profits. If they were to promote say Spirited Away in the same manner they would see less profit. So why throw away money to allow someone else to get a bigger piece of the pie while your margin grows at a lesser rate?


I don't know all the details and facts about movie deals and distributors, but if Disney didn't get money from the movie, then what is the point of them buying the rights to the film in the first place? I mean, wouldn't Disney get all the US movie box office as well as all the money from the DVD release? Is there anyone who knows the ins and outs of this kind of stuff?

LKK wrote:
Although I don't know how to find this information, I think it would be informative to see how well Miyazaki films sold in the DVD market. With the movies only showing in limited release, the home video market may provide better insight into how the American public feels about his movies. With the exception of Howl's Moving Castle, all the Miyazaki movies I've seen have been on DVD, not a theatrical release. The same is also true for my friends who've seen his films. If there's a way to know how many DVDs have been sold (and rented if possible), then I think you have a more accurate indication of his popularity.


good point. If the DVD sales/rentals are good, then that would be an indicator of his over all popularity here.

EDIT: somewhat related, check out this interview with Miyazaki:
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/people/profiles/hayao-miyazaki-modern-movies-are-too-weird-for-me-1678129.html
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Kruszer



Joined: 19 Nov 2004
Posts: 7981
Location: Minnesota, USA
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 10:17 pm Reply with quote
Zin5ki wrote:
Though he is by far the most renowned anime director known over here, whose films always dwarf all other titles on our anime shelves in their quantity, I'm not a big fan of his works.
The subjects he chooses to present to the viewer aren't of the sort that would entice me into a cinema or bring me to pause for reflection. To say this may be met with some disapproval from veteran fans, but quite often it is the case that the emotional impact his tales could have on me, considering the skills he exhibits in bringing to life his ideas, are often suppressed by their typically upbeat conclusions. Although it cannot be denied that he provides acceptable reasons for choosing to craft such stories, going by his account of the purposes he gives himself in filmmaking, I think I'd be wise to exclude myself from the audience he targets.

Sorry for technically being off-topic.


I don't usually go for his type of stories and themes either. Most of them are too family friendly for me and generally as a rule I've discovered I find movies with children as the main characters harder to enjoy. The ones I've seen were all good, don't get me wrong, but only the darker ones like Princess Mononoke and Nausicaa of the Valley of the Wind were truly great.
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Descent123





PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 10:22 pm Reply with quote
None of his movies appeal to me. I prefer seeing a movie that's aimed at teens to adults (Appleseed, Wicked City, Ghost in the Shell, etc.).
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Beltane70



Joined: 07 May 2007
Posts: 3868
PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 10:56 pm Reply with quote
As a couple of other people have mentioned, Miyazaki films don't do as well as other animated films do is due to a lack of ample advertising and a limited number of theaters. This also affects most other anime films that get released in the States.

Spirited Away didn't show up in theaters where I live until it had already won the Academy Award.
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Mushi-Man



Joined: 17 Nov 2008
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PostPosted: Fri May 08, 2009 11:49 pm Reply with quote
To my knowledge Miyazaki is most likely the most successful anime director in the American market. His movies tend to hit a wider audience than most other anime out there. Not to mention all of the critic recognition that he gets boosts interest in his works from the general public. I think there are more copies of Spirited Away sitting in American homes than most other anime. And it's always Miyazaki movies that will be on dvd shelves (even when there are no other anime present). Over all I'd say he dose pretty good in the American market. Maybe not as good as Hollywood directors, but better than other anime directors.
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commsky



Joined: 04 Nov 2008
Posts: 40
Location: Riverside, CA
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 12:56 am Reply with quote
Not previewed enough, not made to look big enough on TV in commercials and such.

In other words, no one sold it, on a side note, I don't think anyone wants to take their kids to it, and it doesn't fit the mature audience either, it only fits the middle, which would be us, hence, it doesn't make nearly as much as other movies that fit in a main category that American audiences dig

Ex. Action, Romance, Comedy, Kids
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tabe



Joined: 09 May 2009
Posts: 3
PostPosted: Sat May 09, 2009 12:03 pm Reply with quote
Had to register because of this interesting topic... Smile I'm quite amateurish in anime, and I haven't read any manga, though I'm interested in Japanese culture because it's different from Western (I hope it still has managed to be different...), and I read a lot of philosophy and history of the West (mainly US and Europe).

I own Laputa, Princess Mononoke, The Ghost in the Shells, 5 Centimeters Per Second, Jin-Roh, Akira, Ninja Scroll, Perfect Blue, Grave of the Fireflies, Spirited Away, and I have seen Vampire Hunter D.

Of the anime series I have Samurai X, Now and Then, Here and There and I have seen most of Monster.

So, I tend to prefer "realistic" anime. That may explain some of my interpretations on the US vs. anime issue.

I think best anime is art, and that's the reason Americans perhaps don't like it en masse. I have watched many anime films that are quite ambiguous in terms of moral, sexuality or rationality, and sometimes even plot has surreal elements and what not. It is my impression that many Americans prefer simple (easy and clear dialogue, superficial setting), sexually non-gratuitous (little sex, or at least something predictable) and morally firm and coherent (Good vs. Evil) stories. At any rate, the American culture and thinking is much geared toward these themes from what I've read.

When you look at Disney: I think even Ghost in the Shell is a lot more complex than Disney's stories. It seems Americans calculate their films more, and have in advance chopped off a lot of maneuvering space for films to move in. What does not conform to this remaining space gets cruelly tossed away.

In music, too, many Americans thought Iron Maiden were Satanists and were very confused when a member got married and had children. They also strongly rejected X Japan as a group 20 years ago because it was so different from their own ideas as a concept.

So I think it would do good for the American cultural consumers to be more open-minded. Of course we secular, more liberal and perhaps less moralizing Europeans look everything a bit differently, but this seems to me to be one aspect of anime's poor following in the US and its relatively high standing, to my knowledge, in France for example.
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fighterholic



Joined: 28 Sep 2005
Posts: 9193
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2009 1:54 am Reply with quote
Lack of mainstream exposure for anime. And stereotypes involving what an animation should be, for kids. Now that's been repeated several times over now. It's all about the mainstream, which isn't as accepting of Japanese animation into society as we are.
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David.Seth



Joined: 20 Jan 2009
Posts: 453
Location: near SF
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2009 2:45 am Reply with quote
fighterholic wrote:
Lack of mainstream exposure for anime. And stereotypes involving what an animation should be, for kids. Now that's been repeated several times over now. It's all about the mainstream, which isn't as accepting of Japanese animation into society as we are.


So this plus the limited amount of screens his films are shown gives us a general agreement why his films don't do so well here in the states. So, assuming those points are true (which i do) then what would happen if Disney promoted Ponyo the same amount as if it was Lion King or Aladdin? And What if they put it out on 2000+ screens? I think that would be a real indicator if America is ready for his films (or anime for that matter).

I still personally believe that its all about name recognition. I know that a lot of people thought that the 1997 film Anastasia was made by Disney since it was a "good animated movie". Its like Disney has duped American's into thinking that all good 2D animated movies are only made by Disney, and they've drilled it into our skulls so much that we take it to the next level. When Warner Brothers test screened Thumbelina that started with the WB logo, the film got mediocre response. But when they played the movie with the Disney logo, the test audience gave a more favorable response. So why can't Disney use just a little bit of this power to promote Ponyo? God forbid a non-Disney 2D animated movie succeeds in the US o_0


tabe wrote:

I think best anime is art, and that's the reason Americans perhaps don't like it en masse. I have watched many anime films that are quite ambiguous in terms of moral, sexuality or rationality, and sometimes even plot has surreal elements and what not.


Yes, most American "cartoon" movies have singing people and animals and nothing much more (with very few exceptions). Not that there is anything wrong with that, and there have been some great animated musicals (Beauty and the Beast)... but if thats all that they can make, it gets old quick. And even though Miyazaki's films are for the most part "family friendly" (Mononoke being iffy) they are nothing like the typical Disney formula. Its like Miyazaki took the charm and magic of the older Disney movies, took them to the next level, and added his own sense of style and story telling to each. My Neighbor Totoro, Kiki's Delivery Service, Spirited Away, Princess Mononoke, Howl's Moving Castle... he is a master of his craft. And while they are anime, I do consider his films closer to what Walt Disney had intended his own films to be. Of course now I can't find the quote/source, but I swear I read something along the lines that Disney never wanted his animated movies to be just for kids. He wanted animation to be something all could enjoy. Something that Miyazaki knows how to do.
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hypersoda



Joined: 17 Feb 2009
Posts: 157
PostPosted: Sun May 10, 2009 7:15 am Reply with quote
Part of it is the lack of marketing. Sure, they may get a little marketing, but other than that, you really don't see anything about the movies unless you go online or look at reviews in the paper or on TV (if there are any). Because of this, many people really don't know about his movies or what they're about, and they'd rather go and see something that they're sure that they'd like rather than see something that they really don't know about, even if it looks interesting. Animation in general is generally percieved as child's play here in the US, outside of adult comedies such as Family Guy and The Simpsons.

Here, the more well-known animated titles (or ones made by well-known companies) usually do better than foreign ones.

Here's some statistics.

The Simpsons Movie:
Gross: (Domestic) $183,135,014

Wall-E
Gross: (Domestic) $223,808,164

Both are either made by well known companies, and in the case of TSM, there are many people in the US that obviously love TS. And just what parent doesn't love Pixar films?

Foreign movies:

Persepolis
Gross: (USA) $4,443,403

Spirited Away
Gross: (USA) $10,049,886

Notice how not only anime, but foreign animation in general is not always widely recieved in theaters? Granted, I couldn't do much research because I don't know too many foreign animated movies outside of the anime world. Foreign movies usually don't do as well at the box office as the bigger-name and hyped up movies that have gotten commercial time, previews on TV, interviews, etc. (though this may not always be the case). Because of this, they usually don't expect them to do well, and usually only release them to a handful of theaters. Hence, this is why many people really don't know about Miyazaki's movies. In addition, there are (sadly) many people in America who would just rather not try anything foreign. As for hate, I really don't think it's hate, just ignorance.

Also, I'm pretty sure that there's more people out there that like Miyazaki's movies out there than you think there are. I was talking to a girl the other day who isn't an anime fan, but she really loves Spirited Away.

Sources: Box Office Mojo and The-Numbers.com

Edit: Whoa, didn't see that someone had already mentioned Persepolis earlier. O.o
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