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The King of Harts



Joined: 05 May 2009
Posts: 6710
Location: Mount Crawford, Virginia

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:07 pm Reply with quote
Ok. Something is wrong here. Here's a series from the Madoka manga review:

Polycell wrote:
One thing I really didn't like was the way that almost every sound effect was transliterated, with a translation provided in parentheses. That's so idiotic it makes me want to see the dolt who made the decision beaten within half an inch of his life repeatedly. It's not like the exact onomatopoeias the Japanese use are some critical component of the story

Zac wrote:
Dial back the id. This makes you sound like a sociopath.

...Not that I have any reason to believe that you aren't actually a sociopath when you say that someone making minor editorial decisions on the Madoka Magica manga should be "repeatedly beaten within half an inch of his life" because he did something you don't agree with in a comic book you like.

Zac wrote:
Polycell wrote:
To be fair, they were also going on and on about how people shouldn't be allowed to have things they don't like. I just want to take out some no-name translator or perhaps an editor. Nobody'll ever notice they're gone!


Yep, well, the people who actually do edit this stuff tend to check the talkback threads for their reviews and I have no interest in having them read about how someone wants them dead for minor editorial choices. If I see anything like this from you again, it's ban time. Not cool.

So we get someone making a crude joke and then almost immediately getting the warning of a ban. I think it's a slight overreatction, since I could tell Polycell was obviously being facetious, but I definitely see where Zac is coming from, so I wouldn't argue against a banning. Well, at least I wouldn't if it hadn't been these little diddies from yesterday in an Infinite Stratos thread:
dtm42 wrote:
Why can't the headline ever be "NEWS: Infinite Stratos Novelist Yumizuru found dead in hotel room due to suspected auto-erotic asphyxiation"? That would be the best.

dtm42 wrote:
Yes I am sick. That is to say, I'm sick and tired of bad works being popular and selling lots of units and getting sequels. I will say that I don't actually want the dude to die; I was not being serious when I suggested that headline. But, if he had a nasty accident or got a debilitating illness and therefore was unable to keep churning out that crap . . . well, let's just say if I were to shed any tears they would be of joy. And that is the truth. Does that make me a horrible person? Not really; it is only natural to want people you dislike to suffer misfortune.

Which only lead to this little slap on the wrist (if you can even call it that) from Keonyn:
Keonyn wrote:
dtm42 wrote:
Why can't the headline ever be "NEWS: Infinite Stratos Novelist Yumizuru found dead in hotel room due to suspected auto-erotic asphyxiation"? That would be the best.


Joke or not, that's rather tasteless (being tasteless doesn't break the rules though people, so stay on topic). Whether you meant it in jest or not, implying delight in someone elses death is kind of disturbing.

Lets not forget about good ol' dragon695, who also decided to join in the fun after seeing that it was "clear" to be an asshole since it doesn't break any rules:
dragon695 wrote:
Indeed, it would be awesome, but why stop there? Why not include the author of OreImo and Yumizuru dead after committing erotic asphyxiation together?


--------------------------------------------------------------------
Now, how do two long time, uh, troublemakers like dtm42 and dragon695 get away scott free for saying what they did, while Polycell, a dude with a good reputation, gets the threat of a ban hammer from Zac? Also, lets not forget dtm42 also took the opportunity to not only make sick and disturbing "jokes", but to, once again, look down on all those who don't see things his way.

The worse part, I think, is that while Polycell could've done without the crude remark, his general post was still relevant to the topic at hand - he was complaining about an editing decision in the manga. dtm42 just saw an IS thread and decided to just be a dick, much like in the IS review thread where he got banned. Nothing he says in that thread has to do with IS getting more books published, and is instead focused on his usual "wah wah things I don't like are getting more work, and all you are stupid with no standards" shtick, just with the addition of creepy "jokes". But oh no, he's fine. Sure, he's been put on long-time moderation and banned for the exact same behavioral issues (he's shown zero signs of improvement since coming off the ban), but that's alright. The guy being crass and hyperbolic, but still talking about the subject at hand while also having a pretty clear slate, he gets the threat of a ban.

Something isn't jiving right here.

Also, in case either dtm42 or dragon695 or anyone else wants to jump in here with "But obviously we were kidding as well!" stuff, I want it to be known that for those two, I don't care. They don't deserve the benefit of the doubt. Not to me, at least.
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 6807
Location: Snake Mountain Cocktail Lounge

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:24 pm Reply with quote
I didn't moderate the IS thread and we haven't had an internal conversation about "so and so should be killed for doing this thing i don't like" comments yet. There's your answer.

We are also all different people who make different judgment calls on different situations. We try to be consistent, but we're not a robot hive mind.

Incidentally, you're also making a personal judgment call here. You say Polycount has a "good rep", but I have no knowledge of he or she being a particularly upstanding citizen around here. I do know that they said the editor of the manga should be beaten to death. Which is not OK with me.
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Keonyn
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Joined: 25 May 2005
Posts: 5551
Location: Coon Rapids, MN

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:44 pm Reply with quote
Ah, here we go again. In this case this is something akin to two cops. These comments don't outright violate any rules and are closest to applying to the trolling rule. If we were two cops and you drop past us doing 65 in a 55 one might let you off with a warning, but the other might cite you for speeding. As I know has been mentioned many times before, there are some judgement calls when perceived violations fall in to a grey area.

Plus, you have dtm making a tasteless joke about wishing the headline killed off someone else, which expresses apathy and maybe even an admittedly dark disdain towards the individual. Then you've got Polycell outright admitting a desire to seeing the individual beaten. Then when Zac responds with what is also a "slap on the wrist" Polycell decides to antagonize the situation, escalating it further. So the situations isn't exactly equal either.

Were they all joking? Sure, I'm sure they were, but Polycell just happened to take it a bit further than he should have, especially after Zac had already essentially chastised him for the bit.

Plus, I didn't have any part in the discussion Polycell was in, so my take on that is irrelevant. There is no specific rules regarding this sort of thing, as I mentioned, so there's going to be some discretion involved.
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strawberry-kun



Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 133

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 8:59 pm Reply with quote
Don't forget about this little gem from the AKB48 Murder Mystery TV Ads thread.

dragon695 wrote:
Hmm.. a mass murder of AKB48 would be more interesting. Perhaps this is how they are writing the recently exposed harlot out of the group? Ah, now I get it!


It was made shortly after he the death posts in the Infinite Stratos thread. I'd expect to get a lot more posts like this especially from trolls like dragon695 since apparently posts like this don't break any rules.
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dragon695



Joined: 28 Nov 2008
Posts: 1103
Location: Clemson, SC

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:02 pm Reply with quote
The King of Harts wrote:
Wall of text

Wouldn't your time be better spent having a nice, stiff drink instead? Cool
strawberry-kun wrote:
Don't forget about this little gem from the AKB48 Murder Mystery TV Ads thread.

dragon695 wrote:
Hmm.. a mass murder of AKB48 would be more interesting. Perhaps this is how they are writing the recently exposed harlot out of the group? Ah, now I get it!


It was made shortly after he the death posts in the Infinite Stratos thread. I'd expect to get a lot more posts like this especially from trolls like dragon695 since apparently posts like this don't break any rules.

It's a murder mystery about... wait for it... wait for it... a member of AKB48 being killed!!! Oh my heavens, I commented on the plot and made a suggestion on how to improve it. Laughing
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strawberry-kun



Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 133

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:09 pm Reply with quote
dragon695 wrote:

It's a murder mystery about... wait for it... wait for it... a member of AKB48 being killed!!! Oh my heavens, I commented on the plot and made a suggestion on how to improve it. Laughing

That response would be a lot more convincing if you didn't constantly wish for murder and death like that. Like King of Harts, I don't see any reason to give you the benefit of the doubt given your history.
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dragon695



Joined: 28 Nov 2008
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Location: Clemson, SC

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:13 pm Reply with quote
strawberry-kun wrote:
dragon695 wrote:

It's a murder mystery about... wait for it... wait for it... a member of AKB48 being killed!!! Oh my heavens, I commented on the plot and made a suggestion on how to improve it. Laughing

That response would be a lot more convincing if you didn't constantly wish for murder and death like that. Like King of Harts, I don't see any reason to give you the benefit of the doubt given your history.

Yes, I wish death to everyone! Ku ku ku ku ku ku ku!!!! Rolling Eyes
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superdry



Joined: 07 Jan 2012
Posts: 1309

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:21 pm Reply with quote
strawberry-kun wrote:
I'd expect to get a lot more posts like this especially from trolls like dragon695 since apparently posts like this don't break any rules.


I guess you don't really read a lot of talkback threads. Speaking about AKB, here's another gem from dragon695:

Quote:

Why couldn't that random stabber have stabbed some of these twats instead? The world would certainly be better off.


and

Quote:

Nope, akb is filled with useless deadweight, so I'd rather see them all die in a fire.


So, one poster's desire to see an editor beaten is bad, but another poster's desire to want 50+ people dead is fine.

But, it's okay, I understand Keonyn's point in his post. And, at this point, I don't really care since the poster is not violating any rules, per se, and I'll just ignore it. No harm done.
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Keonyn
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Joined: 25 May 2005
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Location: Coon Rapids, MN

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:29 pm Reply with quote
Well see, in that example I would say that dragon is crossing a line in going from apathy and disdain to outright encouraging and showing a desire for murder. You see, I see a difference between not minding a report of someone having died you don't like and outright encouraging the event, not to mention "tw**" is not an acceptable word. Of course, these posts were not reported as far as I ever saw, so this is the first I have seen of them.
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strawberry-kun



Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 133

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:31 pm Reply with quote
superdry wrote:

I guess you don't really read a lot of talkback threads. Speaking about AKB, here's another gem from dragon695:


I usually just lurk and don't post. I do usually read the threads here though. I know dragon695 posts a lot of crap like that. I suppose I meant that I expect it to be even more commonplace now.

It's a little off topic since he's not wishing death on any actual person, but here's another dragon gem.

dragon695 wrote:
superdry wrote:
RyanSaotome wrote:
Dan297na wrote:
RyanSaotome wrote:
As if I wasn't already sold on Mugen Souls enough, this clinches it. I must get this game.


I would too, if NISA didn't already decide to censor the game.


As much as I hate censorship, there was no way this game would have been able to release over here if they let you scrub down naked girls who look like 8 years old. I'd rather take censorship then no game at all.


I wonder what they're going to do about that part of the game since scrubbing the girls down helps their stats or something like that. Maybe NISA will keep it in and just alter the art by giving them large breasts. haha.

Perhaps you could enjoy chopping off their breasts instead?


Last edited by strawberry-kun on Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:44 pm; edited 2 times in total
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The King of Harts



Joined: 05 May 2009
Posts: 6710
Location: Mount Crawford, Virginia

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:38 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
I didn't moderate the IS thread

Legitimate question here: Why not? Why does the review for the Madoka manga get to be under your jurisdiction, but the thread with Infinite Stratos doesn't? I'd understand if it was a thread about Random Show X that doesn't create much buzz, but I would've thought after how the thread for the review exploded into the cesspool it became, IS threads would've gotten a little more attention - especially this one after it hit the third page, which should've triggered something. Is it simply a case of you like Madoka so you'll watch that thread, but you don't like Infinite Stratos, so you don't care?

Also, in case this is your answer, I know editorial is what you do for the site, but the Talkback Section is still a part of the forums that you moderate. So even if it is a case of "The Madoka review is editorial and the IS thing was news", I don't see why the talkbacks are affected by that since they're both forum-related.

Quote:
and we haven't had an internal conversation about "so and so should be killed for doing this thing i don't like" comments yet.

I wouldn't think that needed internal discussing, honestly. I wouldn't think that needed any kind of discussing.

Quote:
We are also all different people who make different judgment calls on different situations. We try to be consistent, but we're not a robot hive mind.

I don't think that works in this case, Zac, because the difference in the way the two situations were handled were on the other ends of spectrum. You threatened a ban and Keonyn essentially gave the habitual nuisance dtm42 a wag of the finger for the same offense. It's not even a different situation, it's identical ones. While you are higher up on the food chain than Keonyn when it comes to powers, you're both moderators who follow the same guidelines on the same site, but you both did two completely different things for the same problem. This isn't a case of Tony K. locking a recommendation thread vs Key leaving one open because it "had effort". This is two posters making similar tasteless jokes and you threating to ban one and Keonyn doing nothing to the other.

Quote:
Incidentally, you're also making a personal judgment call here. You say Polycell has a "good rep", but I have no knowledge of he or she being a particularly upstanding citizen around here.

As someone who is on the site all the time and sees 99% of posts that come through here and actually travels outside of the Talkback section, I'm confident in saying that I do have the knowledge of his posts to make that judgment call. You don't leave the Talkback Section (you've said that yourself on the ANNcast), so you don't see the good, solid discussions he has in the Anime Section or that he's a regular in the Retail Section and makes several nonchalant comments. I don't know what it takes to be an "upstanding citizen" in the forums, but I do know Polycell isn't an asshole and that that one, crude joke isn't something he's known for, and that's enough for me to make a call that he has a "good rep". That, and I've never seen a mod openly confront him on anything, mostly because they don't really need to.

Quote:
I do know that they said the editor of the manga should be beaten to death. Which is not OK with me.

And I know that dtm42 said that he dreamed an author of a light novel would commit suicide via auto-erotic asphyxiation (that's pretty detailed) and that he believes it's "only natural" to wish harm and misfortune on people you don't like. That shouldn't be OK with anyone.
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 12385
Location: NZL

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:55 pm Reply with quote
The King of Harts wrote:
dtm42 just saw an IS thread and decided to just be a dick, much like in the IS review thread where he got banned. Nothing he says in that thread has to do with IS getting more books published, and is instead focused on his usual "wah wah things I don't like are getting more work, and all you are stupid with no standards" shtick, just with the addition of creepy "jokes". But oh no, he's fine.


People can accuse me of being crass with the headline I suggested and I would agree with them. But being a dick for being in the thread in the first place? Tell me, is it really being a dick to express my displeasure that the novelist behind such a bad show is writing more works? As I said in that discussion thread, this is a public forum, I should be allowed to say that I don't like something - even in a thread filled with people who took the contrary position - and not have people jumping down my throat just because I don't like what you guys like. Heck, even with PMMM, an amazing show that I really loved, I have repeatedly said that it is fine by me for others to say that they didn't like the show. I was crass with what I initially said, yes, but you are arguing that I shouldn't have even been in that thread in the first place. What I'm saying is that you can't exclude people who don't agree with you from threads of titles that you like.

As for your other assertion that I was off-topic, oh please. I did talk about the state of the industry but I did so while keeping it tied into the topic of the thread, which is that an author was writing more Light Novels. My argument was that he should not be doing so and instead have another, better writer with fresh ideas be given the chance to write some novels. I talked about how Yumizuru was not the sort of author the Anime industry needed if it were to grow out of its Otaku roots. I'll tell you what, I was certainly more on-topic than the two people who were discussing Japanese gangsta rap. And if my posts were off-topic why did you or anyone else not flag them? I clicked on the report button for all my posts in the thread and - apart from the first post - none of them had been reported yet. That was after this post had been submitted, which suggests that people knew I was on-topic or else they would have assuredly reported me.
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strawberry-kun



Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 133

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 9:59 pm Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:
I clicked on the report button for all my posts in the thread and - apart from the first post - none of them had been reported yet. That was after this post had been submitted, which suggests that people knew I was on-topic or else they would have assuredly reported me.

I reported two of your posts in that thread. You must have missed one. Either that or something weird happened.
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 6807
Location: Snake Mountain Cocktail Lounge

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:11 pm Reply with quote
superdry wrote:


Quote:

Why couldn't that random stabber have stabbed some of these twats instead? The world would certainly be better off.


and

Quote:

Nope, akb is filled with useless deadweight, so I'd rather see them all die in a fire.


So, one poster's desire to see an editor beaten is bad, but another poster's desire to want 50+ people dead is fine.

But, it's okay, I understand Keonyn's point in his post. And, at this point, I don't really care since the poster is not violating any rules, per se, and I'll just ignore it. No harm done.


I never saw this. Saying "stabbing those twats" is completely over the line. Please give me some more context for this and maybe link to the offending post. This warrants a ban. I am not OK with this.

Also, this isn't a police station, we are not the cops, and you aren't paying our salaries with your taxes. It's a forum. Things are messy and we have lots of volunteers doing their best. I do what I can in the Talkback forum and that's it - I have enough on my plate to begin with, I don't look at every single thread. Don't expect it to be perfectly consistent, don't expect me to look at every single thread - or any moderator for that matter - and generally stop expecting things to work the way you imagine they should and give us all a little room to make mistakes because we're human beings.

I know you won't actually do that but it doesn't hurt to request it, I guess.
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strawberry-kun



Joined: 23 Feb 2008
Posts: 133

PostPosted: Tue Jun 19, 2012 10:15 pm Reply with quote
Zac wrote:

I never saw this. Saying "stabbing those twats" is completely over the line. Please give me some more context for this and maybe link to the offending post. This warrants a ban. I am not OK with this.

It's from this thread. It's on the first (and only) page.

animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?p=2162332&highlight=#2162332
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