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Well, that's ridiculous. It's hard to take China seriously as long as they keep protecting their shoddy rip-off bootleg industry.

Geez that is nuts! I cant believe that a government would do something like that!

But this is why Copyrights need to be automatically International and owned by the creator from time of conception onward. There needs to be an international agency for this, and Trademarks should NOT be allowed for ANY copyrighted items, since Trademarks are a business tool and not an author / creator tool. That would ensure that the Copyright has precedence over any Trademark, and Trademarks can be instantly invalidated.

kokuryu wrote:

Geez that is nuts! I can't believe that a government would do something like that!

But this is why Copyrights need to be automatically International and owned by the creator from time of conception onward. There needs to be an international agency for this, and Trademarks should NOT be allowed for ANY copyrighted items, since Trademarks are a business tool and not an author / creator tool. That would ensure that the Copyright has precedence over any Trademark, and Trademarks can be instantly invalidated.

'

This is China, the new economic super power of the 21st century. In China between a corrupt government and a legal system that is for show trademark and copyright infringements are as much the right's of the people (communists) as is drinking water or polluting the environment.

This is China people wake up and get use to it, they're no going anywhere, and they are certainly not going to acknowledge the legal claims of ownership and licensing of Japan..

It's really sad to see the global trade community cave under China's ridiculous actions, time after time.

However, we can't expect China to change it's ways when corrupt, idiotic, politicians keep coming to power in economic superpowers, like the U.S. and Japan, and turning blind eyes towards China's countless trade violations with just a little pressure (the kind of pressure that increases the weight of bank accounts and campaign funds) from an overwhelming majority of the international manufacturers in our global community.

We should expect more and more of these types of cases until quotes like, "International Manufacturers see China as the be-all, end-all low-cost manufacturing location of the world", no longer rings true. Otherwise, no government powerful enough to combat China's trade behavior will ever take significant action against it.

This doesn't surprise me at all. This is the same company who ramrodded Tsuburaya Productions over the rights to the Ultraman TV series outside of Japan. Wasn't it Chinese Courts who kept granting the rights to Tsuburaya-Chaiyo Productions?

The courts finally revoked the earlier rulings and returned full rights of the Ultraman TV series and related movies and merchandising rights back to Tsuburaya Productions after years of battling Tsuburaya-Chaiyo in court.

I suspect that the same thing will happen in this case as well. Futabasha just needs to keep fighting this in court. Also, if China isn't going to respect the copyrights and trademarks of Japanese intellectual properties then why should Japan respect the Chinese copyrights. After all, hasn't the Shinchan series been in production for 16 years? As well as producing a series of 12 movies?

Last edited by dormcat on Fri May 22, 2009 11:10 am; edited 3 times in total

Calm down, Sinophobes. I've been aware of this case for almost three years (even before many of you signed up this site), so it's better to hear me out before tossing up your short-tempered, stereotyped opinions.

First, ~~I didn't know where Egan got the picture in the news article, but~~ the title 蠟筆小新 in traditional Chinese in that picture was first created by translators at Tong Li Publishing, who licensed Crayon Shin-chan from Futabasha, as early as 1994. After Shin-chan / 蠟筆小新 had become popular, a Guangzhou (Canton) company took the Chinese title created by Tong Li and registered the simplified Chinese edition 蜡笔小新, in addition to the Japanese title クレヨンしんちゃん, as trademarks in 1996. It was a dirty move (similar to domain sniping, see below) but not illegal under Chinese law back then, when China was not yet a member of WTO and did not have to observe and respect Berne Convention.

A similar type of disputes is domain name disputes, such as "mcdonalds.com" was registered by Joshua Quittner from Wired magazine in 1994, before McDonald's realized the importance of domain names. In the end Quittner asked McDonald's to make a charity donation before he conceded the domain name.

Furthermore, unlike copyrights, trademarks are not protected automatically overseas even today, particularly in different languages; I wonder how many of you still remember this case. It is also based on a "first come, first served" basis in all countries. When Gundam tried entering Chinese market, the most common and recognizable fan-translated title of Gundam series is 高达. Pronounced as gāo dá, it simply mimicked the sound of the word; however, literally, it can be translated as "high achievement," so it was not surprising when Bandai found the trademark had been registered already. The owner tried to make a deal, but Bandai refused and used 敢达 (pronounced gǎn dá) instead. Likewise, Doraemon's title was 叮噹 in Hong Kong, and it was merely an onomatopoeia of bell chimes (often wear by a cat). It was ridiculous if Shogakukan wanted to register something equivalent to "ding dong," so they ordered all Chinese titles to be unified as 哆啦A夢, a title many old fans couldn't tolerate at first glance.

Back to Shin-chan's case: Futabasha started releasing licensed Crayon Shin-chan manga and merchandises in China in 2002 and April 2004, respectively. After it was warned by Shanghai Administration of Industry and Commerce in June 2004 for "infringing trademarks" of that bootleg company, Futabasha didn't file a suit immediately; instead, it waited until January 2005, and instead of suing for copyright infringing, Futabasha requested Beijing to revoke that bootlegger's trademark registration -- and lost the case in September 2006.

I know Futabasha is a relatively small publisher (compared to Shueisha, Kodansha, and Shogakukan) and might not have an independent international license management division, but they've missed way too many chances to set things straight. It was fine if they didn't even realize Chinese market in 1990; it was fine when they didn't know Tong Li's edition would become popular across the Strait in 1994; it was not a smart move, but still forgivable, to ignore the fact that many bootleg Shin-chan merchandises were circulating in China between 1996 to 2002. It was utter foolish when they didn't realize the severity when they started releasing licensed manga of Shin-chan in China in 2002. The bootleg company only had to present a single case that Futabasha was aware of the infringement yet chose to do nothing.

Yes, the bootlegger had dirty moves; yes, the Chinese court made a legal yet ridiculous verdict; however, if you ask me if Futabasha painted itself to corner, I'd answer "yes" as well.

Colonel Wolfe wrote:

Also, if China isn't going to respect the copyrights and trademarks of Japanese intellectual properties then why should Japan respect the Chinese copyrights.

In fact they didn't. Many Chinese trademarks, particularly in food industries and herbal medicine, were romanized and registered by foreign entities, such as 狗不理包子 (Gou Bu Li Baozi), a famous Tianjin meat bun brand. If you make a Google search you'd find many Chinese restaurants around the world with that name, but not all of them are subsidiaries or licensed from the original shop.

Chinese law needs an enema of logic. This is really not surprising though. Bootlegging is a legitimate business to them. Hopefully Futabasha keeps fighting and ultimately wins.

Futabasha should prob settle it out of court imo.

Well this really serves as an excellent example as what the world would look like if all the people claiming intellectual property needs to disappear.

However this is not surprising in the least, Dormcat is right to point out that different cultures recognize IP is different ways, though he is wrong to say every language (country) recognizes it on a first come first serve basis, but many do. You have to remember the commercial legal system China comes from is a Marxist-Socialist tenet. The capitalism they have embraced is still only a very recent trend in terms of changing cultures. And even with that they are still a multi-component system, having the economy in a socialist legal framework that must perform it's actions that contribute to the development of the political civilization of China. They have very little understanding of private property or even property in general. It's still very new to them.

However that's not to say they are not changing. This case probably wouldn't have even been able to go to court in China even a few short years ago. They have created courts (under pressure) in recent years to take care of these matters and bring them into the fold with most of the West. Does the system need improvement, I think we all can say yes, but you should also remember that China is very much in it's infancy when it comes to any manner of property. And the fact that this case was even heard is a sign of progress, though I am sure that is little consolation to the real property owners.

This kind of thing will continue to happen though, and not just with China (I don't want to give the wrong impression that China is the only country that does this kind of thing), until a internationally recognized and sanctioned organization with binding powers is created that will recognize IP across the world, or else these kinds of disputes between two legal systems will always pop up. Of course the Internet weboos will never let that happen.

thanks for the clarification and explanation dormcat. i think most of us who are not chinese are uneasy about the rising power of china. at least i won't worry about this case.

BTW, i remember a time when many of us were worried about the rising dominance of japan as well. things have changed since then and i hope the same goes for china as well.

zalbik wrote:

Chinese law needs an enema of logic. This is really not surprising though. Bootlegging is a legitimate business to them. Hopefully Futabasha keeps fighting and ultimately wins.

Adding the fact that China have veto power in the UN, since it give China almost complete inmunity against any kind of sanction that they could ever suffer because of that.

Dargonxtc wrote:

However this is not surprising in the least, Dormcat is right to point out that different cultures recognize IP is different ways, though he is wrong to say every language (country) recognizes it on a first come first serve basis, but many do.

I was not talking about IP / copyright, but trademark / domain name instead. There has been some measures (such as longer grace periods) to reduce trademark / domain name "sniping," it is very unlikely to eliminate this behavior. Most companies would choose settling the case outside the court (as in McDonald's case).

luisedgarf wrote:

Adding the fact that China have veto power in the UN, since it give China almost complete inmunity against any kind of sanction that they could ever suffer because of that.

Anyone remember Mexico's vote in Resolution 2758?

It sounds like Identity Theft and like someone cloning it, then making money and an entire company off of his work. Like a whole industry spawned off of their work, ideas, and story. In a way, it looks like someone legally pirating and entire industry from someone else and putting them out of business which here is also a high level White Collar Crime.

Thing to be learned I guess is "upon the first notification of pirated items and products one must be sure to act right away and not wait". Can that be a new Chinese Proverb perhaps?

dormcat wrote:

luisedgarf wrote:

Adding the fact that China have veto power in the UN, since it give China almost complete inmunity against any kind of sanction that they could ever suffer because of that.

Anyone remember Mexico's vote in Resolution 2758?

I don't get it. AFIK, that resolution expelled Taiwan from the U.N. What does Mexico have to do with it?

dormcat wrote:

I was not talking about IP / copyright, but trademark / domain name instead. There has been some measures (such as longer grace periods) to reduce trademark / domain name "sniping," it is very unlikely to eliminate this behavior.

Ah, I see. I misinterpreted what you were saying.

Quote:

Most companies would choose settling the case outside the court (as in McDonald's case).

I would find it very surprising if Futabasha didn't try to settle this out of court first. Anyone who is anyone in business knows the thing Chinese businessmen value above all else is face, and that they prefer to work out deals behind the legal system if at all possible. In fact in general for international business transactions you want to do that. You generally want to go down this line: informal agreement, conciliation, arbitration, litigation. Not to mention it is much cheaper, but all of them have secret precedings (non public) with the exception of litigation, that saves face of both companies and allows them to work better with each other in the future. Generally you want to try every alternative before litigation, but sometimes negotiation breaks down, or sometimes any judgments that have been made through mediation is ignored and one party believes the only alternative is litigation. Because all out of court precedings are generally kept private (though arbitration can sometimes be made public) I don't think we will ever know for sure if they took place in this case or not.

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