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NEWS: One Piece's Newest Episode Leaked Before Japan's Debut


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Sophisticat



Joined: 29 Oct 2008
Posts: 165
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 9:14 am Reply with quote
Personally, I hope the perpetrator(s) isn't/aren't caught, because they'd get scapegoated and receive heavier sentences than they deserve.

Meh, they should be rewarded just for teaching Funi to step their game up or GTFO.
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hikaru004



Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Posts: 2306
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 10:34 am Reply with quote
dan888 wrote:
vtr9kvictor wrote:
You guys do realize that hacking into a secure website like this, for any reason, by any means (even if as someone said "he just guessed") is illegal right? Whoever this was HAS VIOLATED THE LAW. He needs to be prosecuted, not thanked, not ignored. BUT SENT TO JAIL.


You do realize that typing in a URL that leads to a file that is publicly accessible is not hacking right? You said secured, but it wasn't secured, it was on a public server.


It got officially reported in the media as a "hack". The debating won't change it otherwise now.
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Ren Hanxue



Joined: 03 Jun 2009
Posts: 8
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 11:54 am Reply with quote
hikaru004 wrote:
It got officially reported in the media as a "hack". The debating won't change it otherwise now.

What does "official" reporting (what the heck does that mean, anyway? what makes it an "official" report?) have to do with what it actually is? Appeal to authority is not a valid argument.

As for the actual hack question, it's fairly obvious that it isn't. The W3C certainly doesn't think so, for example. The article isn't very long and actually quite interesting, I recommend you read it, but for those of you that have ADD I'm going to quote the relevant parts:

Quote:
(A)ny attempt to forbid the practice of deep linking is based on a misunderstanding of the technology, and threatens to undermine the functioning of the Web as a whole. The two chief reasons for this are:
  • A Web Address ("URI," or "URL") is just an identifier. There is a clear distinction between identifying a resource on the Web and accessing it; suppressing the use of identifiers is not logically consistent.
  • It is entirely reasonable for owners of Web resources to control access to them. The Web provides several mechanisms for doing this, none of which rely on hiding or suppressing identifiers for those resources.


(...)

Two analogies have been proposed to help illuminate the question of deep linking through parallels in the real world.

The first analogy is with buildings, which typically have a number of doors. A building might have a policy that the public may only enter via the main front door, and only during normal working hours. People employed in the building and in making deliveries to it might use other doors as appropriate. Such a policy would be enforced by a combination of security personnel and mechanical devices such as locks and pass-cards. One would not enforce this policy by hiding some of the building entrances, nor by requesting legislation requiring the use of the front door and forbidding anyone to reveal the fact that there are other doors to the building.

The second analogy is with a library, which has a well-known street address. Each book on the shelves of this library also has an identifier, composed of its title, author, call number, shelf location, and so on. The library certainly will exercise access control to the individual books; but it would be counterproductive to do so by forbidding the publication of their identities.

These analogies are compelling in the context of the deep linking issue. A provider of Web resources who does not make use of the built-in facilities of the Web to control access to a resource is unlikely to achieve either justice or a good business outcome by attempting to suppress information about the existence of the resource.


Earlier someone in this thread wrote:
Quote:
All you people laying the blame on Funimation are making me a bit ill. Seriously. You’re the kind of asswipes that honestly believes a woman deserves to be raped simply because she’s wearing a short skirt aren’t you?

which is a remarkably bad analogy. Someone else came up with a much better analogy:
Quote:
A more accurate analogy would be that a stranger walked up to Funimation’s server and asked if it wanted to fudge, and it said yes. When Funimation found out about this, it got angry about how people thought its server was a slut and so started claiming that the server was raped and grounded the server for a while. Now as it turns out, the stranger happened to record itself having (consensual) sex with Funimation’s server and released the video on the internet, without the server’s knowledge. This part was illegal (as with all fansubs), but the sex itself was not.
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Daizo



Joined: 03 Feb 2009
Posts: 139
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:26 pm Reply with quote
And in "official reports" FUNimation also claimed they have "strict security measures" when they have absolutely none.

It's only reported as "hack" because FUNimation doesn't dare to tell the truth that they had absolutely no security at all and they leaked the file themselves in their own stupidity. Shifting the blame to someone else is the easy way out for FUNimation.

In short, official media reports aren't sources that would always tell the exact truth and in this case they are wrong by claiming it was a hack.
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KabaKabaFruit



Joined: 20 Sep 2007
Posts: 1871
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 12:33 pm Reply with quote
It's typical for any big business to try and save face over a total embarrassment like this. FUNimation is no different. I'm no stranger to FUNimation's "face saving" measures in the past. Dragon Ball Z fans can relate.
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Daizo



Joined: 03 Feb 2009
Posts: 139
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:01 pm Reply with quote
Indeed, and that's exactly why trying to prove that it was a hack by referring to official statements by FUNimation is stupidity at its finest.
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britannicamoore



Joined: 05 Dec 2005
Posts: 2618
Location: Out.
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:18 pm Reply with quote
KabaKabaFruit wrote:
It's typical for any big business to try and save face over a total embarrassment like this. FUNimation is no different. I'm no stranger to FUNimation's "face saving" measures in the past. Dragon Ball Z fans can relate.


Truthfully they don't have to even worry about that. There are so many people now that want blood for a show that they couldn't have possibly watched without watching the thing they hate the most. Its not even know if the person who posted was a fansubber or not, but they were lumped together because they're hated.

You can't just believe everything you read. I wish i could see what happens with this soon.
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ruriruri007



Joined: 30 Mar 2008
Posts: 15
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 1:22 pm Reply with quote
Tofusensei wrote:
I want to explicitly point out the fact that nothing was decrypted, no logins or passwords were required, it was as simple as issuing an HTTP GET command on a URL.


http://www.w3.org/2001/tag/doc/deeplinking.html

I would like to point out that if you try to prevent offsite linking to content or similar other ways users can present your content you just end up in a losing battle.

Based on what people have said Funimation has been the good guy so far in not restricting how you can access those episodes. This will probably no longer be the case going forward.

If Funimation in fact put the episode up early and its read restrictions were not set properly then there are two possibilities. It was done by their IT staff or someone unscrupulous got access and changed the permissions.

The one who is going to suffer the most from this is Funimation and the timing could not be any worse. It would have been interesting to have some metrics for the first simulcast. Everyone on here whining about how they can't get their simulcast is just a result of what happened. Content consumers not having access to anime episodes streamed is not where the interesting or real reporting of this issue should be focused.

What should be focused on and used to educate is how did we end up here.

1) Poor security/breach of security
2) Copyright infringement via internet.
3) Lack of respect or concern for anime companies.
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Charred Knight



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 3085
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 3:03 pm Reply with quote
Daizo wrote:
Indeed, and that's exactly why trying to prove that it was a hack by referring to official statements by FUNimation is stupidity at its finest.


HAHAHAHAHAHA

Really you want to call someone's elses posts stupid?
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DmonHiro





PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 5:37 pm Reply with quote
ruriruri007 wrote:

Based on what people have said Funimation has been the good guy so far in not restricting how you can access those episodes. This will probably no longer be the case going forward.


Not restricting access? It's restricted to more then half the word. I don't see what you mean.
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MokonaModoki



Joined: 30 Oct 2005
Posts: 437
Location: Austin, Texas
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 8:07 pm Reply with quote
Daizo wrote:
Indeed, and that's exactly why trying to prove that it was a hack by referring to official statements by FUNimation is stupidity at its finest.


Somebody doesn't know what a hack is. A hack can be mind-numbingly stupid, but still be hack.

What's the technological limitation? The URL wasn't exposed to the public. What's the hack? Modify the URL to access what was not exposed. It's trivially obvious, but only after someone has done it. It counts. It might have been a clever hack if guessing a password had been required, or if the URL had been less easy to predict. But a dumb hack is still a hack, expecially to the victim of it.

Put another way, what you are able to respect as a hack varies by your technical savvy, but the fundamental aspect of a hack does not change.

Now it IS possible to make a legal argument that a security mechanism is so weak at to be effectively non-existent. CSS, for example, now falls into this category. This is why (among several other fine reasons) you can't be charged criminally for duplicating your own DVD. If caught, the person who did this One Piece business would only be charged with a computer crime for one reason: as something to negotiate down from on the criminal copyright infringement charge. Because that's how the feds work.

Don't be mistaken though... no matter how easy a security measure is to circumvent, you CAN be charged with a crime for circumventing it if the intent was to prevent you from doing so.
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Daizo



Joined: 03 Feb 2009
Posts: 139
PostPosted: Wed Jun 03, 2009 8:22 pm Reply with quote
Except the URL was pretty much equivalent to being exposed to public as anyone could have gotten the file URL from a previous episode and deduct that changing the number will lead you to another file. "The URL wasn't exposed to the public by having a link to a site that would include a player that streams the episode from FUNimation's site" does not count as a "technological limitation". Otherwise accessing, say, google.com via the address bar would be hacking too because "the URL wasn't exposed to the public on the site you're currently on!"

Also, point me to a well-agreed definition of hacking if you think I don't know what a hack is.
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KabaKabaFruit



Joined: 20 Sep 2007
Posts: 1871
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 9:11 am Reply with quote
Maybe it is time to close this thread. We're going around in circles over the definition of "hacking". Confused
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britannicamoore



Joined: 05 Dec 2005
Posts: 2618
Location: Out.
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 11:38 am Reply with quote
KabaKabaFruit wrote:
Maybe it is time to close this thread. We're going around in circles over the definition of "hacking". Confused


But isn't that a major part of the argument? People are saying that they could just walk right in while other said they had to d-code like Paramore. Its a big part of the issue.

Ren Hanxue- I don't know what I was doing when I read through your post but your analogy makes me laugh with the hoos and haas.
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KabaKabaFruit



Joined: 20 Sep 2007
Posts: 1871
Location: Winnipeg, Manitoba
PostPosted: Thu Jun 04, 2009 6:33 pm Reply with quote
BrittanicaMoore wrote:
But isn't that a major part of the argument? People are saying that they could just walk right in while other said they had to d-code like Paramore. Its a big part of the issue.

Yeah, and like we've seen for the past couple dozen pages, it's not solving anything. The only thing that matters now is to see FUNimation step up their security so crazy stuff like this never happens again.
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