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Things about anime these days that just absolutely frustrates you?


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SecretJustin1130



Joined: 13 May 2010
Posts: 113

PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 8:58 pm Reply with quote
For me it's
1. Lack of variety/quantity in shows. (there's so little to chose from...)
2. Too much moe/fanservice. (enough is enough!)
3. The state of the industry. (get better please!)
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Rhyono



Joined: 03 Dec 2011
Posts: 1039

PostPosted: Tue Aug 28, 2012 11:13 pm Reply with quote
This falls under "listing," which is not allowed.
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Parse Error



Joined: 09 Oct 2009
Posts: 411

PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 2:34 am Reply with quote
This sounds like trolling, but I'll give you the benefit of a doubt and treat it seriously for a moment.
SecretJustin1130 wrote:
1. Lack of variety/quantity in shows. (there's so little to chose from...)
2. Too much moe/fanservice. (enough is enough!)

The crucial thing here is, as compared to when? There's more fanservice now than there was maybe around ten years ago, but compared to say thirty years ago there's hardly any fanservice nowadays, it's been relegated to a ghetto of late-night ecchi anime. Moe is usually too vague to really argue about, but if you just mean the standardized archetypes, then yes that is a significant issue.

Quantity seems pretty difficult to justify no matter how I look at it. There were quite a few OVAs during their boom years, but also just a fraction of the TV series there have been in more recent times. Again if you have some specific time period in mind, one can look things up in the various databases and encyclopedias to compare the number of titles or range of genres and themes, but I seriously doubt you'll be happy with the results.
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walw6pK4Alo



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 7925

PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 3:25 am Reply with quote
Not enough dedicated fanservice anime like Seikon no Qwaser and Manyuu Hikenchou. There's too many lazy series like Hagure Yuusha or Dakara Boku H. I've long accepted that real robot series are a thing of the past, mainly because Ryousuke Takahashi isn't doing much these days, but there's still some VOTOMs OVAs every know and then which pretty nice even if they're nowhere near the quality of the main series.

It frustrates me that hentai licensing is dead, but that's naturally the first thing to go when Japan gets antsy about losing profits because of foreign discs.

But really, I know this thread is because Secret Justin wishes there was a Cowboy Bebop equivalent every single season, if not multiple instances. That's highly unrealistic, and tends to be a point of view from a fan looking back and cherrypicking titles. I rather like where anime is right now, the market has the ability to bear several creative shows and several copypaste shows at the same time. If you research each new title, you might find something you like instead of declaring it all to be crap without really looking. That's why those seasonal charts and the spotlight are made, so fans can made informed decisions and not just go off a show's title and a single piece of promo art. That's the type who immediately wrote off Tari Tari and Kokoro Connect, calling them K-ON clones or what have you.

I posed this in another thread on the Talkback forum: so you're angry, what are you going to do about it aside from just venting here? You can't force the otaku and fujoshi to change what they spend money on, and your monetarily-supported voice is insignificant when you throw it at the Japanese companies. What you pay for an anime series, a Japanese fan paid six times that amount. You can't just yell "Get better", what does that even mean? Better compared to when? Try fleshing out your argument some. Furthering what Parse Error said, not only can titles be looked up, people have seen old anime too, and not all of it is that good.

The quantity of anime has skyrocketed, the year charts from 80s and 90s that some 4chan tripuser made show how completely empty and uninteresting some seasons can be. TV anime in the 80s was either for kids or mecha, with maybe a Cats Eyes and City Hunter mixed in in the latter half of the decade. Living through that must have been kind of boring unless you sucked up any OVA that came out.
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TitanXL



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 4035

PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:45 am Reply with quote
Not enough fanservice in a series can be annoying, especially if there's a bunch of manservice going on with no females to balance it out. Looking at you post-Toppa Battle Spirits series.. also Cardfight Vanguard's got a bit of this problem, but seems to be doing better at it this arc.

Last edited by TitanXL on Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:48 am; edited 1 time in total
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ikillchicken
Space CowboySpace Cowboy


Joined: 12 Feb 2007
Posts: 7015
Location: Vancouver

PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 5:47 am Reply with quote
walw6pK4Alo wrote:
But really, I know this thread is because Secret Justin wishes there was a Cowboy Bebop equivalent every single season, if not multiple instances. That's highly unrealistic, and tends to be a point of view from a fan looking back and cherrypicking titles.


Yes and no. There are certainly fans who exaggerate the past by looking at it through a very skewed perspective. Furthermore, there have always been bad seasons. That said, I do think there was a time were you were seeing shows of that calibre at least a couple times a year. Nowadays I find we see shows of that calibre...eh, maybe once every couple years.

Quote:
I rather like where anime is right now, the market has the ability to bear several creative shows and several copypaste shows at the same time. If you research each new title, you might find something you like instead of declaring it all to be crap without really looking. That's why those seasonal charts and the spotlight are made, so fans can made informed decisions and not just go off a show's title and a single piece of promo art. That's the type who immediately wrote off Tari Tari and Kokoro Connect, calling them K-ON clones or what have you.


I agree with this in theory but I don't actually think it's happening in practice. Most of the stuff people hold up as "creative" is really still deeply entrenched in the usual otaku cliches that dominate the medium. Yeah, it is more creative than the awful, utterly artistically bankrupt garbage that makes up the other half but it's still not great itself either. If we could see half of anime be the kind of truly creative and interesting stuff we used to see then yeah, I'd agree with you. (Hell, if we could see that we'd be better off than we ever were). I don't think we do by any stretch though.

Quote:
I posed this in another thread on the Talkback forum: so you're angry, what are you going to do about it aside from just venting here?


If the possibility of actual, significant, real world change is what you seek, a forum is not the place for you. Wink

Quote:
Better compared to when? Try fleshing out your argument some.


Yes, this is a very good question. There are all kinds of people who raise these complaints and not all of them seem to agree on what time period exactly was better. 80s? 90s? I'd agree on the latter. Not sure about the former.

Quote:
TV anime in the 80s was either for kids or mecha, with maybe a Cats Eyes and City Hunter mixed in in the latter half of the decade. Living through that must have been kind of boring unless you sucked up any OVA that came out.


You're definitely oversimplifying by saying it was almost all for kids or mecha but your underlying point is valid. In terms of TV anime there was really very little variety in the 80s and early 90s. There were certainly shows worth watching but even most of them stuck fairly close to the typical genres of that time. So yeah, I get where people try to draw comparisons between the mecha dominated 80s and the current otaku dominated period. In terms of pure variety that is valid. Mind you, it isn't just variety but also accessibility. Part of the problem I think people have with modern "otaku" anime is that it can be extremely insular. If you're not part of that otaku group it can be very hard to enjoy. Mecha anime at least has a somewhat broader appeal so while non mecha fans might not feel inclined to watch every mecha show out there they don't as much find themselves outright put off by a show if they do watch it.

Of course, the OVA market at the time also shouldn't be undersold as well. There was a lot of neat stuff there.
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walw6pK4Alo



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 7925

PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 6:11 am Reply with quote
I do love me some old OVAs, but I also feel the OVA market shifted into the TV anime to form your seasonal late night anime and the upper portion of high budget animes are now made into films series instead. So can all of those new shows really compare to the old? The 80s and 90s didn't have constant 12/13 episode anime, 26 was often the least amount a show would receive. From what I've seen, it didn't even begin to happen until the early-mid nineties with Metal Fighter Miku and DNA Squared. The one thing that constantly surprises me is how deep the OVA market goes. Hundreds of one-shots and short films. I've seen hundreds and I'll bet there's still hundreds unsubbed and unavailable.

As for high caliber shows, it all depends on what you're looking for. Sci-fi overall has dropped off in anime, and that makes up a massive percentage of older shows we could call great. I'd say the entire culture of anime, manga, visual novels, and LNs also shifted focus around. Anime alone doesn't beget anime. You didn't have visual novel anime until the late 90s, but they did sure take off once digital made everything cheaper. To Heart hit pretty early, and I can only assume it was a massive success, given the sequels and spinoffs, and probably accelerating that whole genre into anime.

I also have to wonder if the "it's older so it's better" mentality is ever at play. I'll use the example of Rinne no Lagrange and Horizon. I could see both as mid 90s TV anime, one like a cross between Neo Ranga and Nadesico, and the other like Bakuretsu Hunters, Macross 7, and Tenchi Universe. Are people willing to let all five of those shows slide just because of their age, or look at them for their individual merits like they should today?

Not many people talk about Eigtron, Ergeiz, or Hakugei, and those all came out around then too. Probably because the open floodgates and the way the internet allows to view everything, not just what's licensed and promoted, have changed how we view anime overall.
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Pixelationist



Joined: 12 Jun 2012
Posts: 111
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 8:30 am Reply with quote
In a way the quality and quantity is better now than it ever was, there're are more shows now than I have time to sit through, and the art and animation is, for the most part, decent.

The bigger factor is that I've changed. I'm a grown-ass man(child) and find it increasing uncomfortable to watch a bunch of high schoolers prancing around flashing their panties, however adorable it may be.

I'm not going to sit here and pretend I don't like cute shit. No one gets into anime without being at least a bit susceptible to the kawaii, but I don't necessarily want it to permeate everything. Now it seems they have to shove a loli or moe blob into every show regardless of its content to placate the japanese otaku crowd, which is fine if that's what they need to do to stay profitable, it's just a person caveat of being a fan.
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Tenbyakugon



Joined: 11 Jan 2012
Posts: 608
Location: Ohio, United States of America

PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:10 am Reply with quote
SecretJustin1130 wrote:
For me it's
2. Too much moe/fanservice. (enough is enough!)


It's a bit of a turn-off. I've never gotten the fascination with panty shots... I guess I'd actually call it disgusting.

For anime, if the fanservice is what's mainly grabbing ratings and not the plot/storyline, then what does that say? That goes for mangaka too; if what's keeping your story popular is the fanservice in any of the artwork/writing, then what does that say?

Not much.
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Touma



Joined: 29 Aug 2007
Posts: 1098
Location: Colorado, USA

PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:50 am Reply with quote
Tenbyakugon wrote:
For anime, if the fanservice is what's mainly grabbing ratings and not the plot/storyline, then what does that say? That goes for mangaka too; if what's keeping your story popular is the fanservice in any of the artwork/writing, then what does that say?


It says that you are in the minority.

I have seen, and have voiced, the same complaint about every form of popular entertainment. Magazines, books, broadcast television, cable television, movies. What is popular is always changing, but there will always be people who do not like the things that are popular. I am often one of them.
Fortunately for me my tastes do seem to fit well with the anime that has been made in the last few decades. I do not have any serious complaints about anime or manga, now. There are a lot of things that I do not like, but there are also more than enough things that I do like to keep me entertained.
And, lucky for me, I like what people here call fanservice and moe. Those are some of the things that got me interested in anime.

EDIT: One thing that does frustrate me is that a lot of the shows that seem like they might be interesting never get licensed and released in North America.


Last edited by Touma on Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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Megiddo



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 6253
Location: IL

PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:52 am Reply with quote
For me, it's the rise of style over substance in shows. Stuff that gets popular just because of visual flair and not due to the writing or the characters. But that has always been a thing I've had a problem with (like how a lot of people go to a movie just to see special effects). And I'm not saying that shows shouldn't be stylistic either. I love Yuasa's stuff and he always chooses a very different style, but he also makes sure that there is plenty of substance to go along with the style.
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Mesonoxian Eve



Joined: 10 Jan 2012
Posts: 1858

PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 9:55 am Reply with quote
Fans: The biggest frustration for me. If they're not complaining, they're pointing fingers at each other calling them thieves and pedophiles. The internet only brings out the worst, to the point those who can discuss aren't posting because these idiots won't shut up, wasting time posting their ignorance or "disagreements".

Old Bastards Running Things In Japan: These are the decision makers who demand prices be fixed, ensure region locks, and are terrified of reverse importation all to the point there's no revenue being generated, leaving open every opportunity for others to take advantage of the situation to prove financial gain, regardless how small, is possible.

Wasted DVD/BD Space: It really pisses me off an industry's whining about loss of revenue when thousands can be saved by adding more episodes per disk. It's quite apparent those running entertainment production companies have zero sense when it comes to economics.

Mixed Packaging/Combos: I find cases a waste of plastic to begin with, but leave it to the entertainment industry to change them for the new format of bluray. There was no need to make the cases smaller and blue. Now, we get companies trying to save costs (the irony!) by creating combo packs, shoving too much into a case which fits neither side of one's collection.

Edited Anime For Streaming Services: I'm not opposed to edited anime, but I do get frustrated when the editing is so poorly done, it takes up much of the screen.

Preorder System for Figures: This isn't a pre-order system. It's a "First come, first served" system as rarely are figures purchased in bulk anymore. While a few "stragglers" may make it to a retailer, most are sold due to this system. If a buyer fails to make the preorder window, they're gambling the opportunity to get it later, provided they remember when it's released.

ANN's Website: It's no longer 1990 but the site reminds us of what it was like back then. I hate the design of this site. The menu options with its awful pop-up display and options improperly categorized. Trying to watch a video on this site is a tremendous test on frustration, leaving me to close more attempts at trying than enjoying the experience. Even FUNimation, who has the worst setup from a distributor, does a better job. The choice of "Advert" or "Ugly Blue" for a background is also frustrating.

I'm done here. I feel if I go on any further, I'll start wondering the hell why I enjoy anime in the first place.
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Zalis116
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Joined: 31 Mar 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 11:08 am Reply with quote
Quote:
Wasted DVD/BD Space: It really pisses me off an industry's whining about loss of revenue when thousands can be saved by adding more episodes per disk. It's quite apparent those running entertainment production companies have zero sense when it comes to economics.
How would that save them thousands, when their revenue model depends on selling many high-priced volumes for every series? At least I assume you're talking about the Japanese market, since the 6-7 episodes on US discs are more about bitrate starvation than wasted space.
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Pixelationist



Joined: 12 Jun 2012
Posts: 111
Location: London, UK

PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 12:40 pm Reply with quote
Mesonoxian Eve wrote:
Fans: The biggest frustration for me. If they're not complaining, they're pointing fingers at each other calling them thieves and pedophiles. The internet only brings out the worst, to the point those who can discuss aren't posting because these idiots won't shut up, wasting time posting their ignorance or "disagreements".

Hmmm... I don't think the anime community is that bad, say compared to the gaming crowd, and especially PC gamers. Do you frequent the Steam forums? Literally nothing but ENDLESS bitching day and night about EVERYTHING.

Quote:
ANN's Website: It's no longer 1990 but the site reminds us of what it was like back then. I hate the design of this site. The menu options with its awful pop-up display and options improperly categorized. Trying to watch a video on this site is a tremendous test on frustration, leaving me to close more attempts at trying than enjoying the experience. Even FUNimation, who has the worst setup from a distributor, does a better job. The choice of "Advert" or "Ugly Blue" for a background is also frustrating.

Haha, can't argue with this. The design and UX here is beyond shocking. I have a feeling they just can't afford what it would cost to do a proper overhaul with such a massive database.

Quote:
I'm done here. I feel if I go on any further, I'll start wondering the hell why I enjoy anime in the first place.

I often ponder this. Stockholm syndrome perhaps?
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shabaz92



Joined: 26 Dec 2011
Posts: 55
Location: MA

PostPosted: Wed Aug 29, 2012 1:05 pm Reply with quote
SecretJustin1130 wrote:
For me it's
1. Lack of variety/quantity in shows. (there's so little to chose from...)
2. Too much moe/fanservice. (enough is enough!)
3. The state of the industry. (get better please!)
Can you elaborate on these a bit? I think it could make a good discussion but these are so vague.

1. There are around 30 something shows coming out every season, which amounts to well over 100 shows a year. How much more do you want to see? Or what is it you want to see that you're not getting?

2. Maybe, but there's enough non fanservice shows that these could easily be avoided. Also fanservice wouldn't exist unless people liked it. The amount of H-doujinshi that comes out of Comiket should show that plenty of people are into the perverted stuff.

3. Get better how? Don't get me wrong, the industry is not perfect, but what industry is.
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