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The List - 8 Ace Pilot You'd Want in a Dogfight


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Fencedude5609



Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 5085

PostPosted: Sat Sep 22, 2012 11:47 pm Reply with quote
Macross pilot rankings:

Max Jenius = Milia Jenius > Isamu Dyson >Guld Bowman > Roy Fokker > Ozma Lee > Nekki Basara > Gamlin Kizaki > Alto Saotome > Ichijyo Hikaru > Shin Kudou
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DavidShallcross



Joined: 19 Feb 2008
Posts: 965

PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:32 am Reply with quote
Furudanuki wrote:
Aqua (Mars) from the ARIA franchise is not included, which renders this entire poll invalid.

I agree.
And did the anime ever state that Aqua was Mars, or was that just in the manga?
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Dessa
Baka RangerBaka Ranger


Joined: 14 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 10:53 am Reply with quote
I'm a bit confused why there are mecha pilots on a list about a dogfight. Gundam, I can at least accept, since there are ways to make a Gundam fly, and I can accept dogfights in space, but a dogfight is explicitly a form of aerial combat.

Evangelion and Code Geass have no business being on this list.
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Animegomaniac



Joined: 16 Feb 2012
Posts: 1377

PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 11:07 am Reply with quote
Dessa wrote:
I'm a bit confused why there are mecha pilots on a list about a dogfight. Gundam, I can at least accept, since there are ways to make a Gundam fly, and I can accept dogfights in space, but a dogfight is explicitly a form of aerial combat.

Evangelion and Code Geass have no business being on this list.


Because otherwise it'd be a short list?

Anyway, uh, no Strike Witches? Hartmann or Barkhorn, either's fine by me.

As for the planet, I choose Catia {Earth} because, just because...

I wouldn't want to live on Arias's Mars, it looks too touristy and looks too wet. Visiting, on the other hand, maybe...
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SereneChaos



Joined: 14 Oct 2011
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PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 1:18 pm Reply with quote
Dessa wrote:
I'm a bit confused why there are mecha pilots on a list about a dogfight. Gundam, I can at least accept, since there are ways to make a Gundam fly, and I can accept dogfights in space, but a dogfight is explicitly a form of aerial combat.

Evangelion and Code Geass have no business being on this list.


The fights in Code Geass gradually transition to flight. It starts out with only ground battles, but by the end nearly all of the battles we see take place are in the sky. Basically all of the major characters gain flying mechas at some point.
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TG72



Joined: 28 Jan 2011
Posts: 230

PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 1:44 pm Reply with quote
AnimeMaine wrote:
A bit obscure, but I'd put Allison of the anime Allison & Lillia on the list.


I second the motion. She's daring, skilled and cute.

Also put me down for the trip to Aqua (one way)
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Saphiro01



Joined: 14 Jun 2003
Posts: 54
Location: California

PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:13 pm Reply with quote
Fencedude5609 wrote:
Macross pilot rankings:

Max Jenius = Milia Jenius > Isamu Dyson >Guld Bowman > Roy Fokker > Ozma Lee > Nekki Basara > Gamlin Kizaki > Alto Saotome > Ichijyo Hikaru > Shin Kudou


You forgot Hayao Kakizaki Anime cry. Poor guy was at least a pilot that graduated UN Spacy Academy and survived a crap ton of space combat mostly intact. The guy just doesn't get any respect for being a loyal friend and comic relief.
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penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 5877
Location: Penguinopolis

PostPosted: Sun Sep 23, 2012 2:55 pm Reply with quote
Saphiro01 wrote:
Fencedude5609 wrote:
Macross pilot rankings:

Max Jenius = Milia Jenius > Isamu Dyson >Guld Bowman > Roy Fokker > Ozma Lee > Nekki Basara > Gamlin Kizaki > Alto Saotome > Ichijyo Hikaru > Shin Kudou


You forgot Hayao Kakizaki Anime cry. Poor guy was at least a pilot that graduated UN Spacy Academy and survived a crap ton of space combat mostly intact. The guy just doesn't get any respect for being a loyal friend and comic relief.


He never got to finish his steak... Anime cry
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Ddoddka_10



Joined: 19 Dec 2011
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 12:28 am Reply with quote
i would diagree with a lot on this one, but oh well at least Kallen is on the list, all be it 6th
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 1:12 am Reply with quote
Ddoddka_10 wrote:
i would diagree with a lot on this one, but oh well at least Kallen is on the list, all be it 6th


I'd actually put Suzaku on the list instead of Kallen as by the end of season two he is her superior in terms of ability.
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kgw



Joined: 22 Jul 2004
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:50 am Reply with quote
While I agree that Char is a great pilot, let's not forget he was finally beaten in a sort-of- karate match against Amuro Rei. No fin funnels, not heathawks, just my-robot-fist-on-your-face. Not exactly the biggest display of dogfight abilities...

I miss Area 88's Shin Kazuma, too.
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Fencedude5609



Joined: 09 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:02 am Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:
Ddoddka_10 wrote:
i would diagree with a lot on this one, but oh well at least Kallen is on the list, all be it 6th


I'd actually put Suzaku on the list instead of Kallen as by the end of season two he is her superior in terms of ability.


Ehh...I'd say that all things being equal, Kallen's a better pilot.

Its really close though, and Kallen sure as hell does more with less throughout the series.
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Sunday Silence



Joined: 22 Jun 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:15 am Reply with quote
kgw wrote:
While I agree that Char is a great pilot, let's not forget he was finally beaten in a sort-of- karate match against Amuro Rei. No fin funnels, not heathawks, just my-robot-fist-on-your-face. Not exactly the biggest display of dogfight abilities....


And the ultimate insult is that spoiler[he takes the cowardly route in trying to escape in an escape pod when the battle isn't going into his favor, which Amuro catches and pins him to Axis, where they both die as Amuro manages to divert the big chunk of Axis that was gonna hit earth because of his newhalf powers amplified by the psycoframe in Nu Gundam.

It's at this point Amuro actually points out why Char is more of a master manipulator than an Ace Pilot at that point: He took advantage of Quess Paraya's naive nature and exploited her for his gain, which could be said of other pilots and organizations Char has used to further gain power.]


Last edited by Sunday Silence on Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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dtm42



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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:30 am Reply with quote
Fencedude5609 wrote:
Ehh...I'd say that all things being equal, Kallen's a better pilot.

Its really close though, and Kallen sure as hell does more with less throughout the series.


For most of the series spoiler[Kallen fights Suzaku to a standstill despite having a slightly inferior machine. I will readily concede that Kallen was a superb pilot and probably better than Suzaku for most of the first season when he relied on the Lancelot's power to see him through.]

And yet, in their final battle, spoiler[Suzaku is the better pilot. Kallen's KF is far, far greater than Suzaku's (this is not in question, as Lloyd and Cecil both state that they went completely all-out and overboard refitting the Guren as a super tech-demonstrator), and he almost wins. In fact, given that he survived and that both Kallen and the Guren were no longer battle-capable (she was semi-conscious, it was out of power and took huge damage), one could argue that he squeaked a draw.]

Now sure, I have to address the elephant in the room, which is spoiler[Suzaki's 'Live' command. However, that only drew out his natural piloting ability; it could only make him do what he was already capable of. In other words, it couldn't improve his piloting ability or make him do the impossible, just allow him to pilot at 100%. The fact that he not only held his own against a superior machine but almost won is strong evidence that his piloting ability was better than Kallen's.]
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Fencedude5609



Joined: 09 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:00 am Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:

And yet, in their final battle, spoiler[Suzaku is the better pilot. Kallen's KF is far, far greater than Suzaku's (this is not in question, as Lloyd and Cecil both state that they went completely all-out and overboard refitting the Guren as a super tech-demonstrator), and he almost wins. In fact, given that he survived and that both Kallen and the Guren were no longer battle-capable (she was semi-conscious, it was out of power and took huge damage), one could argue that he squeaked a draw.]

Now sure, I have to address the elephant in the room, which is spoiler[Suzaki's 'Live' command. However, that only drew out his natural piloting ability; it could only make him do what he was already capable of. In other words, it couldn't improve his piloting ability or make him do the impossible, just allow him to pilot at 100%. The fact that he not only held his own against a superior machine but almost won is strong evidence that his piloting ability was better than Kallen's.]


While this is true, the entire second season, and especially the final arc, has severe issues when looked at as part of the whole. I in general like Code Geass more than probably the average person, but it has severe issues at the end.

The problem with Suzaku suddenly surpassing Kallen in piloting skill is that there is no reason for it to have happened. He just...does, because the plot requires him to not lose that fight. Most of what happens in the last few episodes are like that. People do things solely because they have to in order for the ending to happen.

If they'd given some reason for him to suddenly be better than her, or some reason she was not fighting at her best, then that'd be different, but by all rights she should have won that fight outright, and its not like Suzaku was someone whom we'd been trained to want to have win fights, he wasn't an underdog protagonist or whatever. He just couldn't lose that fight, because if he did, the plot would fall apart. But since the path to where the plot was at that point doesn't make any sense, neither does him drawing/barely beating Kallen in that fight.

I could go on with my issues about the ending of Code Geass, but this isn't really the place for that discussion. Basically my point is that if your assertion that Suzaku is a better pilot hinges on that one fight, its a very, very weak position to take.
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