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The List - 8 Ace Pilot You'd Want in a Dogfight


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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 12549
Location: NZL

PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:58 am Reply with quote
Fencedude5609 wrote:
Basically my point is that if your assertion that Suzaku is a better pilot hinges on that one fight, its a very, very weak position to take.


I agree with you that spoiler[it didn't make sense for him to be suddenly better, however that doesn't change the fact that he was better than Kallen for that one decisive battle when everything was on the line. Was he a better pilot outside of that battle? Well, no, not really. As I've already mentioned Kallen could hold her own even with the weaker Guren. So why would I rather have Suzaku on the list? Because by the end of the show he was clearly the better pilot; he had surpassed her. You would rather keep Kallen on the list because she was top pilot for a longer period of time, and that's fine. We each value different criteria.]
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nightjuan



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 1392

PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:48 am Reply with quote
I'd beg to differ, at least to some extent. Ironically enough, I happen to think Suzaku is a better pilot, overall, even if the difference between him and Kallen isn't that large in terms of skill or technology, whenever they're using roughly equivalent machines (and, strictly speaking, that covers the final battle too, despite the Guren's higher specs, where the very fact that he was capable of fighting at 100% basically means there is no room for human error, which is something his opponent can't replicate).

Moving from Code Geass to Gundam, I am definitely in the camp that thinks Amuro is ultimately better than Char, despite their radically different circumstances and portrayals in Zeta.
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notazaku



Joined: 21 Apr 2012
Posts: 135

PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 11:32 am Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:
And yet, in their final battle, spoiler[Suzaku is the better pilot. Kallen's KF is far, far greater than Suzaku's (this is not in question, as Lloyd and Cecil both state that they went completely all-out and overboard refitting the Guren as a super tech-demonstrator), and he almost wins. In fact, given that he survived and that both Kallen and the Guren were no longer battle-capable (she was semi-conscious, it was out of power and took huge damage), one could argue that he squeaked a draw.]

It could also be argued that he spoiler[threw that fight in the end to fake his death. As long as he could throw it without really endangering his life, I'm sure his live command would allow it.] Either way Suzaku's and Kallen's abilities are close enough that the outcome of any given fight between them is questionable until the end.
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Champy-kun



Joined: 08 Oct 2007
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 10:49 pm Reply with quote
Actually I like the list. I like the inclusion of Aeru and Porco Rosso, but I would add Koiji Kabuto and Subaru Ryoko
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Zerozap



Joined: 14 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 1:27 am Reply with quote
Lets keep in mind that this is a list regarding who we WANT by our side in a dog fight. Piloting skill can be argued to be moot between the two.

Kallen is loyal to a fault.
Suzaku, as we all know, has had some betrayal issues.
I'd feel a-lot safer with Kallen by my side, as opposed to Suzaku. I'm sure Lelouch feels the same way.
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:08 am Reply with quote
Zerozap wrote:
Kallen is loyal to a fault.
Suzaku, as we all know, has had some betrayal issues.
I'd feel a-lot safer with Kallen by my side, as opposed to Suzaku. I'm sure Lelouch feels the same way.


Hah, you only want Kallen for her body. I hope you enjoy spoiler[being betrayed by her when she attempts to kill you for no other reason than you didn't kiss her that one time.]

Honestly, the Code Geass universe has plenty of beautiful women. No need to choose someone so spoiler[ungrateful.]
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Fencedude5609



Joined: 09 Nov 2006
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 2:28 am Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:

Hah, you only want Kallen for her body. I hope you enjoy spoiler[being betrayed by her when she attempts to kill you for no other reason than you didn't kiss her that one time.]

Honestly, the Code Geass universe has plenty of beautiful women. No need to choose someone so spoiler[ungrateful.]


This goes back to my previous statements regarding the last arc.
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Sunday Silence



Joined: 22 Jun 2010
Posts: 2047

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 3:31 am Reply with quote
Zerozap wrote:
Lets keep in mind that this is a list regarding who we WANT by our side in a dog fight. Piloting skill can be argued to be moot between the two.


Piloting skill is a major factor in determining if one is good in a dogfight. So is personality and loyalty.
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enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 10375

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 4:04 am Reply with quote
Zerozap wrote:
Lets keep in mind that this is a list regarding who we WANT by our side in a dog fight. Piloting skill can be argued to be moot between the two.


Then I choose Goose! Laughing
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Animehermit



Joined: 05 Aug 2007
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Location: The Argama

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:04 pm Reply with quote
No big suprise that the number one on this list is Char, even if he isn't the best pilot in the series (Kamille from Zeta Gundam is a better pilot than Char and Amuro).
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Galap



Joined: 07 Apr 2012
Posts: 1149

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 12:35 pm Reply with quote
ZakuAce wrote:
No Shin Kazuma? Come on!


Man, I was expecting to see him too. sadface.
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nightjuan



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 1392

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 4:15 pm Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:
I hope you enjoy spoiler[being betrayed by her when she attempts to kill you for no other reason than you didn't kiss her that one time.]


Hey...despite favoring Suzaku as a pilot, I think that's an unfair description of the events. spoiler[At that point in the story, Kallen did nothing against Lelouch until he decided to play the villain card and basically turned everything on its head by putting both Japan and the world in danger]. If anything, Kallen proved her loyalty by giving him an honest chance to speak his mind before things went in that direction.

Lelouch could have easily changed the outcome if he wanted to, spoiler[by explaining a fraction of his true intentions, which is what Kallen hoped to find out, even if he had no romantic interest in her. Instead, she just gets silence]. It is extremely cynical to say spoiler[she "betrayed" the guy or was "ungrateful" to Lelouch, when having her among those opposed to him was all part of his own crazy plan. In other words, Lelouch knew what was going to happen...and thought it was alright].

Fencedude5609 wrote:
This goes back to my previous statements regarding the last arc.


I'm no fan of the last arc of Code Geass R2 either, but I also don't share the view that Lelouch was somehow an innocent "victim" or that his decisions were always correct and everyone else was wrong or a bad person. Even Suzaku gets too much hate when, for better or for worse, he doesn't do exactly what Lelouch wants.
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Fencedude5609



Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 5085

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 5:27 pm Reply with quote
nightjuan wrote:

I'm no fan of the last arc of Code Geass R2 either, but I also don't share the view that Lelouch was somehow an innocent "victim" or that his decisions were always correct and everyone else was wrong or a bad person. Even Suzaku gets too much hate when, for better or for worse, he doesn't do exactly what Lelouch wants.


Huh? What does that have to do with anything?
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nightjuan



Joined: 22 Jan 2008
Posts: 1392

PostPosted: Tue Sep 25, 2012 9:33 pm Reply with quote
Fencedude5609 wrote:

Huh? What does that have to do with anything?


Let me spell that out then. It's related to the paragraph I wrote above and how certain characters, including but not limited to Kallen for example, sometimes get too much of the blame for certain bad outcomes or questionable events throughout the story, while Lelouch's responsibility is either ignored or downplayed. Nothing more, nothing less.
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Rei Sentoki



Joined: 18 Jul 2006
Posts: 53

PostPosted: Wed Sep 26, 2012 7:40 am Reply with quote
Naomi O'Brien from Kurenai. Angry Irish chick with pimped-up MiG and a F-22 kill in her logbook.



How does one "dogfight" while tied to the ground with a big extension cord, armed with an oversized razor knife, anyway?
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