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Shelf Life - The Martian Chronicles


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CrownKlown



Joined: 05 May 2011
Posts: 1012

PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 3:59 pm Reply with quote
Personally I thought the movie was crap, and ruined the show. I always pretend that the Nadesico ended after the show and the movie does not exist. Other than having the same characters the movie retains none of the charm of the series, is convoluted at best, a head scratching poor attempt at science fiction at worst.

Your comment about Tenchi also does not make much sense. Tenchi is generally considered the template of god father of harem, the ova is what really kicked in gear the whole genre. And the later ovas if anything became less harem, and more sci fi plot driven. Clearly you have never watched Tenchi Muyo based on your comments. The main criticism of OVA 3 is just that, where is all the harem fun, whats with this over the top rushed sci fi story. I like the story but it does feel a little rushed in only 7 episodes. And fyi Tench ova has 3 parts, and two spinoffs, GXP and knight tail. I don't know here you got the notion it had four seasons.

Although I will at least agree with your comments regarding Tylor, that was a much better executed version of what Nadesico wanted to be.
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dm



Joined: 24 Sep 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:02 pm Reply with quote
The thing with Nadesico is the sub-text(s).

On the zeroeth level it's a Sci-Fi harem show (and maybe not that good of one).

On the first level it's a loving, though satiric, homage to fan-culture.

A level (or two) below that it's about the various roles that memory/history/nostalgia play in our sense of self. When you learn spoiler[the identity of the Jovians, it suddenly makes sense that the series appeared in Japan in the wake of one of their occasional history-textbook controversies (about how WWII is treated in the Japanese history curriculum).]

The theme of "memory" is set up from the very first episode (Akito and Yurika's competing memories of their Martian childhoods). Memory returns as a theme in Gai and Akito's nostalgia for an old TV anime (and a lot of the other fan-nostalgia bits). Memory returns again as the UN Space Navy decides to lobotomize Omoikane (all the "Ruri" episodes center on memory --- and our memories as a fundamental part of our identity --- in one way or another). Ruri's last line of dialogue (as opposed to her ship-board log narration) is about how she doesn't want to lose the memories of the past two years.

And the memory theme is touched on in the stories we tell about our history (and how that kind of memory helps define our national identity).

All this adds up to a structure that makes a hokey 90s anime something much better.

Also, Nadesico has one of the Best Recap Episodes Ever.


Last edited by dm on Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Wakazhi



Joined: 31 Dec 2010
Posts: 189

PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:12 pm Reply with quote
"I don't think the Nadesico TV series is Shelf Worthy. I'd pay $30 for the movie and OVA alone. The TV series is my DVD extra."

...Well at least you said you didn't "think" it was shelf worthy instead of stating a blatant lie by saying "it is not shelf worthy". Once again, more proof that this series is underrated, lol.

About two years ago, I finally got around to watching Evangelion, and right after I finished it, I watched Nadesico. After watching both series, a question came to mind: "Why is Evangelion so popular instead of Nadesico, just because it's artsy?!"

At my anime club a few weeks ago, we watched both Evangelion and Nadesico. By the end of the week, people said they wanted to watch more Nadesico. If anything, Nadesico is a better deconstruction than Evangelion because unlike Eva, it doesn't take itself seriously, and the plot sticks hand-in-hand with the philosophy of the show (which is "you can't live like it's a giant robot show") instead of having mental disorders from the director raping the story over with their emotions instead of sticking to the plot.

And I thought this series looked decent and not "poor" for the angle it was taking anyway. It's supposed have the feel of a satire, not a Cowboy Bebop.
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Keichitsu0305



Joined: 24 Apr 2010
Posts: 929

PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 4:50 pm Reply with quote
Wakazhi wrote:
...
About two years ago, I finally got around to watching Evangelion, and right after I finished it, I watched Nadesico. After watching both series, a question came to mind: "Why is Evangelion so popular instead of Nadesico, just because it's artsy?!"


*shh* You don't want to trigger the "This show is better then Evangelion" Button, do you? You'll have fans clogging this forum for days. Wink

Anyway, I think Nadesico so far is okay but I'm on EP. 6-8 so, I'll probably like it more eventually. (I'm borrowing my friend's copy so I might buy my own Box Set later on.) The theme song (personally) is just so awesome!! >w<

This is mainly because I'm not completely familiar to mecha (I've only seen eight or so; none are from the Gundam franchise). The humor is a tad off at times. spoiler[Like for example: the death of Gai. Was I not supposed to giggle when he was shot in such a quick, nonchalant manner? Of course, it could have been a parody of the Heroic Mentor/Big Brother cliche or it was possibly meant to be serious.]

One thing that really stand out to me was the mention of Captain's in Mecha shows and how they used to be older men with expertise in warfare but now (or rather "now" as in the 1990's) they are just bishonen or bishojo looking teens/young adults created simply to sell a product. It really made me feel...more aware of the changes when it comes to anime in general. "Will this TV series/OVA/film sell if I had an older character who actually knows what they're doing or should I have a cute, young yet bland lead who reluctantly agrees to be the hero (and happens to be surrounded by 5-12 hot teen girls)?"Just my two cents.

So yeah, Sword Art Online. That was....something.
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notazaku



Joined: 21 Apr 2012
Posts: 135

PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:11 pm Reply with quote
Keichitsu0305 wrote:
The humor is a tad off at times. spoiler[Like for example: the death of Gai. Was I not supposed to giggle when he was shot in such a quick, nonchalant manner? Of course, it could have been a parody of the Heroic Mentor/Big Brother cliche or it was possibly meant to be serious.]

The consequences of that event are meant to be taken seriously, but that scene itself is a nice bit of twisted satire. When I first saw that scene I couldn’t help but let out a little giggle myself. Or maybe we’re just bad people. Twisted Evil Anyway the point is life is not like a hot blooded mecha show.
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Megiddo



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 6165
Location: IL

PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:22 pm Reply with quote
So Erin likes the Nadesico movie more than the TV series and likes SAO as well?

Well, this doesn't surprise me. As a wideheld opinion of the Nadesico fanbase is to pretend that the movie never even happened. And SAO is simply terrible fanfiction on the same level of Twilight, but moreso aimed at men's fantasies of course.
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Kimiko_0



Joined: 31 Aug 2008
Posts: 1575
Location: Leiden, NL, EU

PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:32 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Well, so far we have listened to a robot puppet sing, put together a life-sized giraffe puzzle, and watched a presentation that ended with a classmate shaving her head on stage. It was intense.

Noodle implements? Razz

I may agree with you on Himawari (Too), as it's an anime that I'm not completely sure of putting on my to-buy list. I liked it, but not enough to make it a must-have.

Quote:
I've dabbled in the .hack franchise (usually for review purposes) and I could never get into it. For my money, Sword Art Online is orders of magnitude better than .hack. For one thing, the stakes are a lot higher in SAO. It's not just one or two kids that stand to die, it's everyone in the game. There are 10,000 players in the beginning, and by episode ten only 6,000 remain.

As the saying goes, one is drama, a million is a statistic. I haven't watched SAO yet, but I doubt it can beat .hack//SIGN in my opinion. It was the series that got me hooked on anime after all Smile
I've also heard that SAO is rather heavy on the fanservice-without-redeeming-qualities. And that was from someone who doesn't object to that on principle.
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Keichitsu0305



Joined: 24 Apr 2010
Posts: 929

PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 5:55 pm Reply with quote
notazaku wrote:
Keichitsu0305 wrote:
The humor is a tad off at times. spoiler[Like for example: the death of Gai. Was I not supposed to giggle when he was shot in such a quick, nonchalant manner? Of course, it could have been a parody of the Heroic Mentor/Big Brother cliche or it was possibly meant to be serious.]

The consequences of that event are meant to be taken seriously, but that scene itself is a nice bit of twisted satire. When I first saw that scene I couldn’t help but let out a little giggle myself. Or maybe we’re just bad people. Twisted Evil Anyway the point is life is not like a hot blooded mecha show.

Oh, I took the results of the effect more seriously. But during the event...nope. Laughing
Oh well, at least I'm not alone.
Megiddo wrote:
So Erin likes the Nadesico movie more than the TV series and likes SAO as well?

Well, this doesn't surprise me. [...] And SAO is simply terrible fanfiction on the same level of Twilight, but moreso aimed at men's fantasies of course.
Agreed. (And yet, I liked TTGL.) Anime dazed
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Lynx Amali



Joined: 05 Nov 2010
Posts: 741
Location: Ontario, Canada

PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:18 pm Reply with quote
I honestly don't know how to feel about Prince of Darkness. On one hand, I absolutely LOVE the Black Selena. It's one of my all time favorite mech designs period. On the other hand, I really didn't enjoy what they did with characters I genuinely liked.

On the completely opposite side of the story, it did make Super Robot Taisen W all the more awesome. Spoilers for SRT W: spoiler[At the end of the game, Liger, from GaoGaiGar, helps Akito recover his sense of taste. This leads to him opening up his own restaurant with Yurika helping him run it. ] The fact that the game also has spoiler[Gai survive his death in the series which ultimately has him actively participating in the events of Prince of Darkness with an Aestivalis Custom and updated PoD-era cut in, all the well helping Akito ] was awesome as well.

Also; Best Recap Episode in The History of Recap Episodes.

Quote:
For my money, Sword Art Online is orders of magnitude better than .hack. For one thing, the stakes are a lot higher in SAO. It's not just one or two kids that stand to die, it's everyone in the game. There are 10,000 players in the beginning, and by episode ten only 6,000 remain.


I can sort of agree with this and disagree with this at the same time. While the stakes are indeed higher, you never really get repercussions from the events happening in the real world. That's one thing I liked about .hack. Mainly, the Liminality OVAs included in the original games. You get a sense of while the story is taking place, the consequences it has on the real world.

Then again, I've always had a soft spot for stories involving Artificial Intelligence gaining self awareness which I can't see SAO doing. No spoilers, please. I picked the show back up because my friend's constant pestering.
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Stark700



Joined: 30 Jan 2012
Posts: 5530
Location: Earth

PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 6:51 pm Reply with quote
I haven't seen Nadesico yet but it looks pretty interesting to say the least.

Nice collection though with the Negima and Chibi Devil manga.
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 12496
Location: NZL

PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:15 pm Reply with quote
Prince of Darkness was just plain awful. To understand it you needed to have played a game which explains what happened, and even then the movie sucks anyway. What was with the tonal shift?

The movie is an insult to fans and a piece of crap any way you look at it. I hate it.
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Key
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Joined: 03 Nov 2003
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Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley)

PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:30 pm Reply with quote
Wakazhi wrote:
About two years ago, I finally got around to watching Evangelion, and right after I finished it, I watched Nadesico. After watching both series, a question came to mind: "Why is Evangelion so popular instead of Nadesico, just because it's artsy?!"

Actually, through the late '90s and maybe even up into the early 2000s, MSN was an immensely popular series; if you were an anime fan at that time, you had either seen it or at least knew about it, and it was at one point rated in a poll as the all-time #1 anime series. It didn't hold onto its popularity as long as Neon Genesis Evangelion has (but then again, no other series really has, either), but it held on much longer than most anime titles do.

And why did MSN not hold on as long as NGE, given how popular and highly-thought-of it was? Because it was, as Erin alluded to, much more a product of its time than NGE. The latter's story about psychological struggles and troubled relationships has a timeless quality to it, while the satire in MSN's goofy rip on staid sci fi formulas and cliches has been rendered less sharp and biting by the evolution of harem, sci fi, and otakucentric series since then. In retrospect, a fair amount of what the series joked about (such as Akito becoming a harem master for little good reason and the way the female characters threw themselves at him) actually became regular story elements that were taken more seriously as the 2000s progressed. People no longer think of behaviors like Yurika's as wicked parodies, but instead as expected components, even cliches, within harem series. Thus what made MSN special has been overwhelmed over time, while NGE's edginess has remained timeless. It also looks more dated than NGE does. (And let's not forget, too, that NGE is among the titles that MSN was parodying; who do you think Ruri was partly patterned off of, for instance?)

That being said, I do side with the majority opinion so far in this thread about the relative merits of the TV series and movie. To put it in perspective, I own the TV series and rewatch it in part or in full at least once every couple of years. I saw the movie once off of a rental copy and never bought it or had much desire to see it again. As others have said, the tone is so different that it hampers the movie's appeal.

Kimiko_0 wrote:
I've also heard that SAO is rather heavy on the fanservice-without-redeeming-qualities. And that was from someone who doesn't object to that on principle.

There have basically been two fan service scenes so far in a dozen episodes. The one in episode 8 has been widely-complained-about for being incongruously (and unwelcomely) gratuitous, as the series up until that point hadn't had any. The second one most would probably agree was wholly appropriate for the circumstances. That hardly fits the "heavy" description.


Last edited by Key on Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:45 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Melanchthon



Joined: 02 Oct 2010
Posts: 543
Location: Northwest from Here

PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:34 pm Reply with quote
Keichitsu0305 wrote:
The humor is a tad off at times. spoiler[Like for example: the death of Gai. Was I not supposed to giggle when he was shot in such a quick, nonchalant manner? Of course, it could have been a parody of the Heroic Mentor/Big Brother cliche or it was possibly meant to be serious.]

I saw that event as a symbolic of the senselessness of war. spoiler[Gai wants to be the big hero, to die in battle, to go out in blaze of glory, and he ends up being shot for a stupid and ultimately pointless reason.] spoiler[In fact, we later learn the whole war is stupid and pointless.]

Quote:
...signaling a shift from the sci-fi anime I liked to a new decade of harem anime I didn't care about. Nadesico stands right on that cusp, teetering on the tipping point, and it's a strange tension that pervades the show.


My sentiments exactly. There was a point where if you picked a currently airing anime, the odds were you'd select a sci-fi show, generally one with mecha. And later, there was a point where if you picked a currently airing anime, the odds were you'd select a seinen ecchi comedy, generally one with a harem. And Nadesico is that point in time where the two trends met.
Also, Akito is the proto-harem lead. He has a number of the elements that make up today's standard milquetoast male lead: the whining and moaning about being unable to live a simple life, the vacillation over girls, the indecision, but the character manages to overcome most of these flaws, unlike today's, who wallow in it.

Quote:
The creepy emotionless 11-year-old Ruri Hoshino is kind of the Lieutenant Commander Data of this series, except someone decided Data wasn't nearly cute enough without pigtails


Ruri is pure, concentrated otaku-bait. And it works. I am so in love with her. Although her episode was the worst one of the show.

//Got my copy of Nadesico last week. Re-Watched through episode 5.
///Never got around to seeing the movie. And now it's been spoiled forever! Na, just kidding, I'd been spoiled long before this.
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Shenl742
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:38 pm Reply with quote
To me, the really weird thing about the Nadesico movie is that the bizarre, dark tonal shift feels almost like something the original series would parody, or at least call a bit of attention to.

Seeing it played so straight, without even a hint of irony, actually made watching it feel a little unsettling.


Last edited by Shenl742 on Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
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EmbraceMe



Joined: 17 Dec 2010
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 24, 2012 7:38 pm Reply with quote
I actually really enjoyed the Nadesico: Prince of Darkness. Overall, I like its seriousness in comparison to the TV series. It added a lot more to my Nadesico experience but I hated how we didn't get any information regarding the time gap [in anime form] between the TV series and movie. That lack of information took away some of my enjoyment of the whole franchise. I think I may go purchase the show and move now but with the Bakemonogatari and KnK DVD LEs coming out I don't think my wallet will be able to support such spending.
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