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From the New World (Shin Sekai Yori) (TV).


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Jose Cruz



Joined: 20 Nov 2012
Posts: 297
Location: Brazil

PostPosted: Sun Oct 13, 2013 10:41 pm Reply with quote
Man, just finished watching this. Almost great series, I rated it as very good but now I think it deserved even more. The themes and plot were brilliant, it's downsides were the rather plain characters, the rats were the most interesting characters. In the end I identified with Squealer's cause and I hoped that the relationship between the telepaths and the rats went down to a better way but in the end everything converged to it's previous state and the world continued to go on as it had been.

Edit: Thinking about it the fictional world depicted in this series is a strong candidate for the most oppressive fictional society ever imagined. It's a society where 99% of the world's population has been genetically modified to look like rats and reproduce like insects, and the remaining 1% consist of humans with telekinetic powers that systematically slaughter their own children and that don't even consider the other 99% of the population to be human, instead they are treated as animals and are systematically murdered for any reason. Some people here apparently haven't noticed the extremely brutal treatment of the "rats" by the "humans" but the shows give many examples, the most obvious was when they ordered the extermination of squealer's colony only because they had won a war against another colony very easily, and even in the first episodes we see that people with canto powers consider the rest of humanity to be insects to be stepped upon, even the canto children had no qualms about killing the queerats. And the genetic modification of their appearance is also among the most barbaric things I can even conceive being done to a social group, specially considering that this social group is 99% of the entire humanity.

It's interesting that some people here apparently praised this extremely savage society mainly because of their liberal sexual practices if compared to our society without considering everything else (specially the fact that these liberal sexual practices only applied to 1% of their society, the other 99% were people genetically modified to reproduce like insects) and yes, the "rats" were a part of the society controlled by the people endowed with canto powers (as they were even used to kill the unwanted children with canto powers).

It's also a world were information is extremely scarce: very few people know the truth about the world they live in and technology has regressed to medieval levels while population density has regressed to bronze age levels. I cannot imagine a worse possible future for mankind than the one depicted in this series/novel and the whole point of the series was to show how absurd and oppressive their world was: from each episode to the next new layers of absurdity of their world were revealed until by the end we are (supposed to be) shocked by it.
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drdr48



Joined: 16 Mar 2009
Posts: 360

PostPosted: Mon Oct 28, 2013 11:09 am Reply with quote
Did you know that genetic Death Feedback is a real thing and is taken from wolves. Wolved can't kill each other, I never knew that before...
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Arkthelad



Joined: 06 Jan 2013
Posts: 67

PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 5:46 pm Reply with quote
Hi there,

I just finished Shin Sekai Yori (which I think everyone should watch if you like science fiction) and have a couple of questions about the series.

Who was the "ghost" woman holding the baby that emerged out of the "green pig/library creature" thingy when it got destroyed by the monk in the 4th episode. It was a small detail but I remembered it because I had to watch that episode twice.

Also, what's happening in the ED for the first half of the series (the woman on the boat)? Does this actually relate to anything in the series?

Thanks
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Galap



Joined: 07 Apr 2012
Posts: 1101

PostPosted: Sat Dec 14, 2013 6:23 pm Reply with quote
The 'ghost' woman was a holographic projection that the synthetic minoshiro projected in order to defend itself from human attack. They wouldn't be able to attack it because they have been designed to be unable to attack other humans.

The ED metaphorically represents the events of the series as they pertain to Saki's relation to her society. She alone is able to rise above the rising murky waters and glide above the submerged ruins. The canoe is there because it holds meaning to her as being the place where she first made love to Shun.

Maria and mamoru dance as children bearing the masks representing the Ogre and Karmic Demon, which would later emerge in the story.

Saki then tumbles through a chaotic circus of blasting fireworks, which previously loomed in the distance, and finally comes to rest at peace in her bed, crisis ultimately averted.
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Arkthelad



Joined: 06 Jan 2013
Posts: 67

PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 4:56 am Reply with quote
Galap wrote:
The 'ghost' woman was a holographic projection that the synthetic minoshiro projected in order to defend itself from human attack. They wouldn't be able to attack it because they have been designed to be unable to attack other humans.


Didn't it already get hit by the monk's attack before it released the image though?

Galap wrote:
The canoe is there because it holds meaning to her as being the place where she first made love to Shun.


What? When did this happen?
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Galap



Joined: 07 Apr 2012
Posts: 1101

PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 1:43 pm Reply with quote
Arkthelad wrote:

Didn't it already get hit by the monk's attack before it released the image though?


Yes, and that's why it died.


Quote:
What? When did this happen?


In episode 3, the group draws straws to see who gets partnered with whom on their night canoe trip, and who has to stay behind to watch the camp. It's implied that Shun or Saki manipulated the drawing (or just got lucky) so they would get paired, because they liked each other. On the canoe, after shun calms the waters to a mirror, the two progressively get closer, eventually touching hands. The camera pans up, then cuts to the next day, which to me indicates that a lot more happened there after.
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TsunaReborn!
Enjoying the time of EVEEnjoying the time of EVE


Joined: 08 Sep 2012
Posts: 3071
Location: Cheltenham UK

PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 3:42 pm Reply with quote
Galap wrote:
Arkthelad wrote:
What? When did this happen?


In episode 3, the group draws straws to see who gets partnered with whom on their night canoe trip, and who has to stay behind to watch the camp. It's implied that Shun or Saki manipulated the drawing (or just got lucky) so they would get paired, because they liked each other. On the canoe, after shun calms the waters to a mirror, the two progressively get closer, eventually touching hands. The camera pans up, then cuts to the next day, which to me indicates that a lot more happened there after.


I didn't think that was being implied but after re-watching that scene her smile made me wonder if more did happen. I don't think the actually slept together I think she was just happy that he felt the same way. I think the camera panning to the sky was a more artsy way to cut out the journey back. But hey that's just my interpretation.
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Arkthelad



Joined: 06 Jan 2013
Posts: 67

PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 6:07 pm Reply with quote
Weren't they only like 12 during that scene?
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TsunaReborn!
Enjoying the time of EVEEnjoying the time of EVE


Joined: 08 Sep 2012
Posts: 3071
Location: Cheltenham UK

PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 6:27 pm Reply with quote
That didn't stop spoiler[Satoru and Saki getting pretty raunchy when they were kept captive in that tree cage thing by the rats.] but yes probably a little too young for that. Laughing
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Arkthelad



Joined: 06 Jan 2013
Posts: 67

PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 7:40 pm Reply with quote
All of the romantic relationships we see formed by kids in the series are homosexual. I would speculate that heterosexual activity is forbidden/discouraged outside of marriage, to make sure that any children born are raised in a stable environment.
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Galap



Joined: 07 Apr 2012
Posts: 1101

PostPosted: Sun Dec 15, 2013 11:46 pm Reply with quote
Well, their society's standards of when romantic relationships are appropriate are different than ours, and such a thing wouldn't be frowned upon in their society. Also, young heterosexual relationships do exist, but seem to be a little less common.

Maybe she didn't completely sleep with him there, but I'm pretty sure the implication was that a lot more happened than was shown.
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Knoepfchen



Joined: 13 Dec 2012
Posts: 452
Location: Catalonia

PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 8:38 am Reply with quote
Cool, this thread is still active, then? I'm at ep. 8 right now, right after the 2 year time skip (which is why I will not read through the comments right now in fear of spoilers), and, so far, I am absolutely loving what I'm seeing. I can't believe I missed this show when it was airing, as it feels like it was made for me (or, less arrogantly speaking, it resonates quite well with my preferences).

I love how I'm still in a somewhat grey area about how this world really works, but have been given enough information to be intrigued to go on watching.

I love how there's a casual cruelty shining through the kid's actions from time to time, which, in a weird way, makes them look even more innocent to me, as they seem to be so completely unaware of their behaviour and how it inflicts pain on others (especially seen when Satoru got his cantus back after they discovered the "library" and were punished by spoiler[sealing their abilities] - Saki even commented how he seemed changed somehow). This is interesting because of a possible relation between their canti and personalities, and because it just shows how kids can act towards others, which is not often done in this way, as it takes out the cuteness to a certain extent. Still, it makes them look even more like innocents or victims to me, as they are so oblivious to everything and apparently kept that way for a purpose.

Very intriguing emotional interactions between the main characters so far. Seeking comfort in each other in times of stress because of genetic modification, a very nice idea. Apart from Shun, they all seem desperately looking for human comfort right now. I like how that can be seen as a sign of inner turmoil because they are doubting the world they're living in. Very cleverly done. I also love how casual and normal the series treats same sex relationships. I hope we will get there in less than 1000 years, and without genetic modification.

I don't like the character designs that much, though, their bodies seem out of proportion someone, with those oversized heads and eyes and the incredibly thin bodies that look so painfully fragile. But I really like the look of the show itself, and the designs of clothing, for example, which seems both futuristic and traditional, a very interesting mixture.

I really do have high hopes for this series and myself at the moment.
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HaruhiToy
He started itHe started it


Joined: 15 Apr 2008
Posts: 2295

PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 12:08 pm Reply with quote
Knoepfchen wrote:
I love how there's a casual cruelty shining through the kid's actions from time to time, which, in a weird way, makes them look even more innocent to me, as they seem to be so completely unaware of their behaviour and how it inflicts pain on others

That is, of course, close to the definition of a sociopath. Whether manufactured or spontaneous, the result is the same.

And you hit on another true observation: it is possible to be innocent and a sociopath at the same time.

I recall that at least one character -- Saki? -- had tendencies away from that condition.
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danilo07



Joined: 25 Dec 2011
Posts: 1414

PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 1:03 pm Reply with quote
It is nice to see that this thread is active since I have been thinking about last episodes of this show and I have problems with it.My biggest issue lies with the spoiler[big twist at the end,when it was revealed that the rat things possessed human DNA.The problem that I have with that reveal is that it seems completely unnecessary,this entire time the show has been creating all of these arguments against a systematic mistreatment of rat things(some might say speciesism). The rat things are capable of planning their future,they feel pain and have complex emotions, so of course it is not right for humans to enslave them,since humans aren't more special then rat things.But when they introduced that twist,those arguments seem to have fallen in water and now it was focused completely focused on "WE HAVE HUMAN DNA,THAT MEANS WE ARE ALL THE SAME SPECIES!!". When the twist was revealed,it was presented as some GRAND TRUTH that should make us shiver with disgust and cause us to think"How could we have treated them in a such a way?",but logically it makes no difference at all.]
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Knoepfchen



Joined: 13 Dec 2012
Posts: 452
Location: Catalonia

PostPosted: Tue Dec 17, 2013 5:46 pm Reply with quote
HaruhiToy wrote:
Knoepfchen wrote:
I love how there's a casual cruelty shining through the kid's actions from time to time, which, in a weird way, makes them look even more innocent to me, as they seem to be so completely unaware of their behaviour and how it inflicts pain on others

That is, of course, close to the definition of a sociopath. Whether manufactured or spontaneous, the result is the same.

And you hit on another true observation: it is possible to be innocent and a sociopath at the same time.

I recall that at least one character -- Saki? -- had tendencies away from that condition.


I'd rather describe this something very normal in (very young) children. Catching insects and "exploring" what happens when you remove a leg or two, stealing your friend's favourite toy and watching him scream and cry in desperation and frustration, that sort of thing. I wouldn't want to call those toddlers sociopaths,as they just don't know any better and, therefore, are pretty much innocent. Usually, it's the parents' job and responsibility to educate their kids about the wrongness of their actions and help them in developing a sense for right and wrong, how others feel when you're mean to them, the ability to experience guilt due to growing a conscience etc. (I'm sure there are lots of studies on how a concsience is something we grow or are born with that contradict what I'm writing here.)

Usually, at the age of 12 and 14 (the age of the kids at the point I'm at right now in the show), this development has been completed a while ago. It does, however, not feel like they were raised that way, as they casually display signs of cruelty without giving it much thought. They clearly show empathy towards each other's suffering, but seem to lack the ability to reflect upon their own actions at times. Maybe, in this world, it is not necessary for the parents to educate their children the way we do now, as this death feedback that was mentioned a few episodes ago keeps everyone from harming each other physically, anyway.

I find this quite interesting, as the show does not provide an explanation for this sometimes slightly disturbing behaviour of it's heroes - not yet, at least. It just tells something about this world in a fascinating way, at least I think so. The same goes for everyone's need of bonding with someone, not being able to be alone, finding comfort in each other. It has been established they were spoiler[genetically modified to seek human comfort in times of stress]. So, rather than having the kids act distressed or telling each other how they feel, we see them desperately looking for intimacy, which could be seen as a sign of severe stress (if you want to). That's pretty cool storytelling, I think.
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