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NEWS: U.S. Anime Sales Drop Only 2% in Q1 2009 vs. Q1 2008


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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 23668
PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:31 pm Reply with quote
You could very well be right, vashfanatic. I hope you are. Because if that's true, then that should encourage distribs and retailers to take the "risk" of lowering prices and perhaps enjoying greater revenues due to increased sales.
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walw6pK4Alo



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 7:41 pm Reply with quote
vashfanatic wrote:
Blood- wrote:
Oh, I'm totally familiar with the concept of how people turn to entertainment in hard economic times. I'm just surprised that a niche product like anime may be benefitting from that phenomena. Keep in mind that non-anime DVD sales dropped 14% during the same time period that anime DVD sales only dropped 2%. Why aren't non-anime DVDs getting a "people escaping from reality" bounce?


Maybe the increase in releases in box sets that are more affordable??


But then you come into the world of "at no quality lost". We'd like to see cheaper prices, but not at the cost of crappy paper boxes (Veridian collections) or cramming like 7-8 episodes on a disc (again FUNimation) with absolutely no extra or special features. And no, other show previews and clean Openings/Endings are NOT extras, despite what the industry would like to claim. Hell, I've seen interactive menus claimed as a disc feature.
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The King of Harts



Joined: 05 May 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 8:08 pm Reply with quote
vashfanatic wrote:
Other things that bug me? That Afro Samurai is the top-selling anime DVD (not a very good show)...

You know why it sells well? Because it has Samuel L. Jackson and it aired on Spike TV. Names sell big time. Too bad it would cost way too much to have a couple A-list stars be in more anime. Not because they'd be better than regular anime VA's, but because they'd push sales way up just from their name being on the box. What do you think is going to sell better: A show starring Samuel L. Jackson that aired on Spike TV or a show that has a guy named Steven Blum that aired on Cartoon Network?

Anime DVD's don't sell like hotcakes because nobody has ever heard of the shows or the people in them. Anime can't get off Cartoon Network (at ridiculous hours) or late night Sci-Fi hours and that greatly cuts down their advertisement to the majority. My theory is that if a show like Cowboy Bebop aired on Spike TV, the sales for it would be better because of more exposure to a wider audience. Likewise if they put Will Smith in Soul Eater, I think it would sell tremendously well simply because Will Smith is in it.

Now, of course getting Will Smith in an anime is damn near impossible because his price tag would be way too much for any company, but it would help DVD sales I believe. Getting anime on more popular networks is more possible, but anime just doesn't appeal to big networks that want to make a lot of money off the shows they air. If they can't make a butt-load off Cowboy Bebop starring a cast of unknowns to the majority, then they won't air it.

It's this niche, within a niche, within niche thing anime has going for it. If only there was a magical way (that was cheap) to make anime more popular to a wider audience outside of those on these forums, then I think DVD sales would be better.
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Blood-
Bargain Hunter



Joined: 07 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Fri Jun 26, 2009 10:45 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
Now, of course getting Will Smith in an anime is damn near impossible because his price tag would be way too much for any company


Not necessarily. Even big name stars will often do animation VA for way less than their usual rate. Partly because the work is far less demanding on their time than live action, but sometimes these stars have kids and they want to do something that they can enjoy or be impressed by. But yeah, Will Smith would get a *leeeeetle* bit more than, say, Crispin Freeman.
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vashfanatic



Joined: 16 Jun 2005
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 12:01 am Reply with quote
walw6pK4Alo wrote:
But then you come into the world of "at no quality lost". We'd like to see cheaper prices, but not at the cost of crappy paper boxes (Veridian collections) or cramming like 7-8 episodes on a disc (again FUNimation) with absolutely no extra or special features. And no, other show previews and clean Openings/Endings are NOT extras, despite what the industry would like to claim. Hell, I've seen interactive menus claimed as a disc feature.


Oh yes, I miss extras. The Geneon release of Gankutsuou is just packed with them, which is why I'm glad I have it rather than the cheaper Funimation version...of course then I look at my rather expensive set of Geneon-release Ergo Proxy DVDs which yes, list DVD credits and previews as extras, with no clean OP even if you bought the extras DVD (which I did). The expense doesn't always equal the number of extras.

I've noticed lots of Funimation series off commentaries by the (English) VAs as extras, but I really find commentaries annoying. The only commentaries I've ever watched all the way through were a few from Buffy the Vampire Slayer (Joss Whedon and Seth Green riffing off each other was too much to pass up) and of course Tropic Thunder (where Robert Downey Jr. stays in character the whole time). And add to that my general lack of interest in the English dub (I'm glad if it's done well for those who like or need it, but I always prefer to watch something the way the original director intended it to be made), I'd really rather they spent the disc space on more traditional extras.


Last edited by vashfanatic on Sat Jun 27, 2009 12:08 am; edited 1 time in total
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Xanas



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 12:04 am Reply with quote
walw6pK4Alo wrote:
vashfanatic wrote:
Blood- wrote:
Oh, I'm totally familiar with the concept of how people turn to entertainment in hard economic times. I'm just surprised that a niche product like anime may be benefitting from that phenomena. Keep in mind that non-anime DVD sales dropped 14% during the same time period that anime DVD sales only dropped 2%. Why aren't non-anime DVDs getting a "people escaping from reality" bounce?


Maybe the increase in releases in box sets that are more affordable??


But then you come into the world of "at no quality lost". We'd like to see cheaper prices, but not at the cost of crappy paper boxes (Veridian collections) or cramming like 7-8 episodes on a disc (again FUNimation) with absolutely no extra or special features. And no, other show previews and clean Openings/Endings are NOT extras, despite what the industry would like to claim. Hell, I've seen interactive menus claimed as a disc feature.


People people people. The 7-8 episode thing is not anything to do with quality. The 7-8 episode discs are dual layer. While dual layer has been around for a long time, anime hasn't been using it for their 4-5 episode discs, so the 7-8 stuff is at the same bitrate even though it's all on one disc. There hasn't been any decrease there as a rule.
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vashfanatic



Joined: 16 Jun 2005
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Location: Back stateside
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 12:09 am Reply with quote
Xanas wrote:
People people people. The 7-8 episode thing is not anything to do with quality. The 7-8 episode discs are dual layer. While dual layer has been around for a long time, anime hasn't been using it for their 4-5 episode discs, so the 7-8 stuff is at the same bitrate even though it's all on one disc. There hasn't been any decrease there as a rule.


So we're seeing a decrease in extras without the excuse of having less space? You realize that's even worse, right?
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Charred Knight



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 12:14 am Reply with quote
PetrifiedJello wrote:
Blood- wrote:
Why aren't non-anime DVDs getting a "people escaping from reality" bounce?

My opinion: this is because the industry isn't reporting real sales numbers while fighting "piracy", probably for good reason. They'd show the "lost" sales numbers aren't as large as they want us to believe.
A recent report on the piracy of Canadians was proven to be false due to, ready... plagiarism! Heh, how irony turns its beautiful face.

The only source I could find was in relation to Blu-ray, comparing the 4% loss of Blu-ray compared to standard def DVDs of similar titles. Then the article went on to say how Blu-ray blows and people aren't buying into it due to the cost.

I'll bet a box of donuts the movie industry "loss" is also right around 2-3% this year.


It depends on the series

For example compare the size of Negima and One Piece's online community, and the One Piece community dwarfs the Negima's community. If you look at sales of manga though you see that Negima sells a lot better than One Piece even though One Piece is a lot cheaper, and has more fans.

Now either One Piece has a ton of fans from other countries or piracy has hurt One Piece.

Sure piracy isn't going to do diddly squat for series that didn't have large online communities like Ouran High School Host Club but it does hurt large communities that don't have dedicated fans like Code Geass or One Piece.
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Xanas



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 12:27 am Reply with quote
vashfanatic wrote:
Xanas wrote:
People people people. The 7-8 episode thing is not anything to do with quality. The 7-8 episode discs are dual layer. While dual layer has been around for a long time, anime hasn't been using it for their 4-5 episode discs, so the 7-8 stuff is at the same bitrate even though it's all on one disc. There hasn't been any decrease there as a rule.


So we're seeing a decrease in extras without the excuse of having less space? You realize that's even worse, right?


Ehh, I am not arguing about the extras. But, you are right that less space isn't the reason for the lack of extras. That is just a cost cutting measure. I guess that they were having to pay quite a bit to get interviews or license the Japanese extras. I'm not going to blame them for that honestly, it's not like any particular distributor has been doing completely awesome these last couple of years.
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Zalis116
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Joined: 31 Mar 2005
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Location: Kazune City
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 3:52 am Reply with quote
The King of Harts wrote:
Too bad it would cost way too much to have a couple A-list stars be in more anime. Not because they'd be better than regular anime VA's,
How do you know that Hollywood A-listers of film and TV acting will necessarily be better than anime VAs? Using only your voice to act, express emotion, portray characters, and fit pre-established mouth movements is a completely different skill set. I think this post by Jonathan Klein is very illuminating:
Quote:
On the other hand, some fans here on the forums think that English voice acting will somehow increase in quality ten-fold or more, if film & tv actors dubbed all the anime released in America into English. Working in Los Angeles allows me the opportunity to work some actors from film & TV who are also celebrities. Believe it or not, there are a contingent of film/tv actors who are huge anime fans and have even asked me if they could do a little voice acting in some of my anime shows simply for the love of it (often uncredited). I can't say who they are but I've had Academy award and Emmy award nominated and winning actors in the recording booth and I can say one thing for sure; not every great actor can be a great voice actor. Acting for film & TV is a completely different animal than voice acting. And dubbing for anime can be even more difficult since film & TV actors are accustomed to using their entire body to deliver their performance. When you confine these actors to simply using their voice to deliver a performance, it's like tying them up by their hands and feet and telling them to act. They can't. They just freeze up in the booth, because the performance they give with their body can't be interpreted into the microphone. *post continues about "books on tape" actors, see the link*

Or to put it another way, let's say you're in the mood for some Chinese food. Who do you want to cook it, the big-name award-winning Italian chef you see on the TV, or the no-name guy who's been working at the Chinese restaurant down the road for 10 years? Same general activity, completely different skillset.

vashfanatic wrote:
Xanas wrote:
People people people. The 7-8 episode thing is not anything to do with quality. The 7-8 episode discs are dual layer. While dual layer has been around for a long time, anime hasn't been using it for their 4-5 episode discs, so the 7-8 stuff is at the same bitrate even though it's all on one disc. There hasn't been any decrease there as a rule.


So we're seeing a decrease in extras without the excuse of having less space? You realize that's even worse, right?
No kidding. Considering that Funimation routinely puts seven dual-language episodes on discs, you'd think they could've fit the Shattered Angels omakes for a total of 6.5 episodes on each disc.
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hissatsu01



Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 963
Location: NYC
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 4:34 am Reply with quote
Xanas wrote:
People people people. The 7-8 episode thing is not anything to do with quality. The 7-8 episode discs are dual layer. While dual layer has been around for a long time, anime hasn't been using it for their 4-5 episode discs, so the 7-8 stuff is at the same bitrate even though it's all on one disc. There hasn't been any decrease there as a rule.


Bzzt. First of all, almost all 4 episode anime DVD releases I've seen for years have been dual layer, with relatively few exceptions. The last series I've seen released entirely on single layer discs was When They Cry, and this was while Geneon was going down the tubes. 7-8 episodes crammed on to one disk does affect bitrates/quality. At maximum bitrates the most episodes you can put on one disc are 3 for single layer and 5 for dual layer. Shoving 7 on one disc (I don't know of any non-bootleg discs with 8 episodes on it) does result in a cut in bitrates.

Maybe it doesn't result in too much of cut in quality with Funimation because for whatever reason, even though all their releases for years have been dual-layer, they never used all the available space, or even much more than half of it. (This never made any sense. It costs no more to use that space than not) People have complained for years about Funimation's video quality, but it has improved. Still, the average Funimation release still has far more compression artifacts than the R2 Japan release of the same title (which generally max out bit rates).


Last edited by hissatsu01 on Sat Jun 27, 2009 6:11 am; edited 1 time in total
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walw6pK4Alo



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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 4:43 am Reply with quote
vashfanatic wrote:

I've noticed lots of Funimation series off commentaries by the (English) VAs as extras, but I really find commentaries annoying. The only commentaries I've ever watched all the way through were a few from Buffy the Vampire Slayer (Joss Whedon and Seth Green riffing off each other was too much to pass up) and of course Tropic Thunder (where Robert Downey Jr. stays in character the whole time). And add to that my general lack of interest in the English dub (I'm glad if it's done well for those who like or need it, but I always prefer to watch something the way the original director intended it to be made), I'd really rather they spent the disc space on more traditional extras.


Commenteries can be awesome when they're, you know, by people who actually had something to do with the production of the show. A dub is the very last and probably a very unimportant factor in the production of the show. I don't care what the VA's have to say, they have literally ZERO input on the show, they're merely timing their lines to match the mouth flaps and already constructed scripts. What important could they add? "Oh yeah, and this was the part where I voice acted. Oh yeah, I voice acted over there too." Fooey. Give a commentary with a director for christ's sake, maybe a character or background designer, key animator, someone with black hair, black eyes, and is probably short living in a homogeneous society on the other side of the Pacific ocean. Sorry for the rant, but I don't find American commentaries to be anything worth watching/listening to. It'd be the equivalent of having Russian dubbers give you a commentary for Star Wars.
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The King of Harts



Joined: 05 May 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 5:49 am Reply with quote
Zalis116 wrote:
The King of Harts wrote:
Too bad it would cost way too much to have a couple A-list stars be in more anime. Not because they'd be better than regular anime VA's,
How do you know that Hollywood A-listers of film and TV acting will necessarily be better than anime VAs? Using only your voice to act, express emotion, portray characters, and fit pre-established mouth movements is a completely different skill set. I think.

Dammit, I knew that sentence would get me in trouble. I don't think Hollywood actors would be better than VA's (I did one time in my anime life, but not now). You have to say the whole sentence in order to understand what I was trying to say. The quality of the voice acting wasn't where I was going with that, the number of DVD sales is where I was aiming that. To put it a different way: Not that I think Hollywood actors would be better (they could be or not, who knows), but there name alone would increase DVD sales.
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hikaru004



Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Posts: 2306
PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 5:51 am Reply with quote
ninjapet wrote:
About the market being ranged to younger kids

I fit the teen age range and I still buy at least 2 anime box sets a year and at least 10 volumes of manga a year.

You have to understand I rarely get money and I still have a year to go before I can get a job. So please don't say younger fans don't have money to buy things.


But the overall teen market is different. Teens choose what to buy and clothes are still highest priority. It's the 3 C's that rule the day (clothes, college, car).
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Xanas



Joined: 27 Aug 2007
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 27, 2009 9:32 am Reply with quote
hissatsu01 wrote:

Bzzt. First of all, almost all 4 episode anime DVD releases I've seen for years have been dual layer, with relatively few exceptions. The last series I've seen released entirely on single layer discs was When They Cry, and this was while Geneon was going down the tubes. 7-8 episodes crammed on to one disk does affect bitrates/quality. At maximum bitrates the most episodes you can put on one disc are 3 for single layer and 5 for dual layer. Shoving 7 on one disc (I don't know of any non-bootleg discs with 8 episodes on it) does result in a cut in bitrates.


Qualify 'almost all'. Because that's certainly not the case with most of the ones I have seen, and I rip my own DVDs regularly.
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