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Razzuel



Joined: 27 Dec 2009
Posts: 144

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 7:58 pm Reply with quote
Fencedude5609 wrote:

*points at the article he posted*

That.

I even made this same point in its comments.


Indeed.

Everyone seems to be forgetting the parts where Haru tackles Shizuku from some bushes, Shizuku gets a drink dumped on top of her head, Shizuku forcibly receives a kiss from Haru without Shizuku's consent, and Shizuku gets punched in the face.

Those actions taken with the rape line and Shizuku's indifference and acceptance of these things is what's the problem here. We're led to believe that this is okay because Shizuku is supposed to fall for Haru, when these things should actually be setting off alarms in Shizuku's head, especially the first part, where she's tackled to the ground by Haru. At that point she only just met Haru for the first time; she doesn't know anything about this man and yet there's no concern for his actions because "that's just the way he is" and "Shizuku is meant to fall in love with him."

This shouldn't be presented as normal and romantic; it's actually disturbing and creepy.
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Fencedude5609



Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 5085

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:05 pm Reply with quote
animehermit wrote:


I think your problem is that the blog writer isn't particularly talented at analysis.
This is a much better article on the subject:
http://moesucks.com/​2012/​10/​02/​beating-​a-​dead-​horse-​another-​look-​at-​the-​tonari-​no-​kaibutsu-​kun-​problem/​


Gaaaahhh

THATS THE REBUTTAL I WAS TALKING ABOUT.

ITS LINKED AT THE TOP OF DAYS' POST.

Jesus. I read it, I don't agree with its positions, I agree with the position Days takes.
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Animehermit



Joined: 05 Aug 2007
Posts: 908
Location: The Argama

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:09 pm Reply with quote
Fencedude5609 wrote:
animehermit wrote:


I think your problem is that the blog writer isn't particularly talented at analysis.
This is a much better article on the subject:
http://moesucks.com/​2012/​10/​02/​beating-​a-​dead-​horse-​another-​look-​at-​the-​tonari-​no-​kaibutsu-​kun-​problem/​


Gaaaahhh

THATS THE REBUTTAL I WAS TALKING ABOUT.

ITS LINKED AT THE TOP OF DAYS' POST.

Jesus. I read it, I don't agree with its positions, I agree with the position Days takes.


Day's analysis is garbage it's nothing but the contents at facevalue. He (or she) never gets into any serious analysis.

For some reason you tend to go with the less organized, less thoughtful of the two. It's kind of baffling. Go on beating that stupid, dead topic that this is somehow sexist because of a character flaw.
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Blood-
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Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 14073
Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:16 pm Reply with quote
Surrender Artist wrote:
To me, it suggests something potentially very worrisome about Japanese culture.


Come on, SA, you are smarter than this. Anyone who thinks that anime/manga is some kind of reliable mirror of Japanese culture is seriously deluded. If you are prepared to make spurious judgments about Japanese culture based on something like this, what do you make of the fact that the US Senate may soon include a member who burbles on about "legitimate" rape? Worry about your own culture before you start wading into waters you know absolutely nothing about.

Lest it's not completely obvious, "gosh, I watch some anime so I'm qualified to make judgements about Japanese societal mores" is a type of ignorance I'm not fond of.
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Tanteikingdomkey



Joined: 03 Sep 2008
Posts: 1412

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:20 pm Reply with quote
animehermit wrote:
Fencedude5609 wrote:
Surrender Artist wrote:

It frustrates me that on a forum where boobs can inspire eleven billion pages of moral outrage, something that seems a lot more clearly wrong on the same general grounds is getting strangely marginal traction and was hardly mentioned in the previews. I'm not asking for an army of activists out in high dudgeon, but some show of conviction and better counter-arguments than so many words saying, "pffffft," would be nice.


It certainly doesn't surprise me at all.

Raging against fanservice and boobs is easy, and doesn't require any particular self examination.

Rape culture? Thats hard.


As if some throwaway line is somehow promoting "rape" culture. Again mountain out of a molehill.

As a victim of sexual assault, I can say that it doesn't bother me in the context it is said, he is obviously speaking a hyperbole. there was nothing close to rape culture in that episode and I question if you know what rap culture.

BTW I am not currently planing on watching the second episode of my little monster
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Animehermit



Joined: 05 Aug 2007
Posts: 908
Location: The Argama

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 8:27 pm Reply with quote
Tanteikingdomkey wrote:
animehermit wrote:
Fencedude5609 wrote:
Surrender Artist wrote:

It frustrates me that on a forum where boobs can inspire eleven billion pages of moral outrage, something that seems a lot more clearly wrong on the same general grounds is getting strangely marginal traction and was hardly mentioned in the previews. I'm not asking for an army of activists out in high dudgeon, but some show of conviction and better counter-arguments than so many words saying, "pffffft," would be nice.


It certainly doesn't surprise me at all.

Raging against fanservice and boobs is easy, and doesn't require any particular self examination.

Rape culture? Thats hard.


As if some throwaway line is somehow promoting "rape" culture. Again mountain out of a molehill.

As a victim of sexual assault, I can say that it doesn't bother me in the context it is said, he is obviously speaking a hyperbole. there was nothing close to rape culture in that episode and I question if you know what rape culture.

BTW I am not currently planing on watching the second episode of my little monster


Did you quote the wrong person? I'm not sure what you are trying to say here.

Also: that sucks what happened to you, and I think it takes a lot of courage to admit it over a mostly anonymous forum.
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dragon695



Joined: 28 Nov 2008
Posts: 1103
Location: Clemson, SC

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 9:09 pm Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:
dragon695 wrote:
Crying or Very sad I miss Nyanko Sensei!


You are not alone.

Here, have a pic:


This made my day, thank you! Very Happy
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enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 10158

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 11:51 pm Reply with quote
maaya wrote:
hehe, the article sounds exactly like lots of Twilight reviews xD


Oh no, but in Twilight, she deserves it. Twisted Evil

Or maybe it's kinda how African Americans sometimes use the N-word as a term of endearment...........


Blood- wrote:
Surrender Artist wrote:
To me, it suggests something potentially very worrisome about Japanese culture.


Come on, SA, you are smarter than this. Anyone who thinks that anime/manga is some kind of reliable mirror of Japanese culture is seriously deluded. If you are prepared to make spurious judgments about Japanese culture based on something like this, what do you make of the fact that the US Senate may soon include a member who burbles on about "legitimate" rape? Worry about your own culture before you start wading into waters you know absolutely nothing about.


Oh c'mon, lotsa people who criticize American culture/media aren't in fact Americans. Laughing
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Tanteikingdomkey



Joined: 03 Sep 2008
Posts: 1412

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:00 am Reply with quote
animehermit wrote:
Tanteikingdomkey wrote:
animehermit wrote:
Fencedude5609 wrote:
Surrender Artist wrote:

It frustrates me that on a forum where boobs can inspire eleven billion pages of moral outrage, something that seems a lot more clearly wrong on the same general grounds is getting strangely marginal traction and was hardly mentioned in the previews. I'm not asking for an army of activists out in high dudgeon, but some show of conviction and better counter-arguments than so many words saying, "pffffft," would be nice.


It certainly doesn't surprise me at all.

Raging against fanservice and boobs is easy, and doesn't require any particular self examination.

Rape culture? Thats hard.


As if some throwaway line is somehow promoting "rape" culture. Again mountain out of a molehill.

As a victim of sexual assault, I can say that it doesn't bother me in the context it is said, he is obviously speaking a hyperbole. there was nothing close to rape culture in that episode and I question if you know what rape culture.

BTW I am not currently planing on watching the second episode of my little monster


Did you quote the wrong person? I'm not sure what you are trying to say here.

Also: that sucks what happened to you, and I think it takes a lot of courage to admit it over a mostly anonymous forum.

it's easier when I am pretty much anonymous as well. that said
I was just saying it doesn't matter because it's in charcter for him to speak in hyperbole, and the context makes it obvious that is what he is doing.
The other I was questioning was if Fencedude5609 even had an idea what rape cluture is, because I seriously doubt it.

Finally no I don't think it's good that he said that but it's called charcter development, and I am putting this show on my wait and see list to see if it actually develops along with it's charcters into something or just dies, because something in that show smells more fishy then him speaking a hyperbole

One more thing Razzuel None of thoughs things happen because she is a girl. I'm gonna rape you is sexually oriented though. she get's punched by accident when he is trying to protect her, and she stops being friends with him as a result. he thinks he is attacking him or his "friends" so he takes thoughs actions, nothing is aimed at her because she is a girl. is it a poor relationship (at this point) yes, but it's not like he isn't trying to improve it, and they do have a reason to be together, I think more episodes will tell if this series is good or stinks.


Last edited by Tanteikingdomkey on Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:13 am; edited 1 time in total
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GokuMew2



Joined: 15 Dec 2007
Posts: 1483
Location: Tokyo, Japan

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 12:08 am Reply with quote
Fencedude5609 wrote:
GokuMew2 wrote:

While it may be surprising to hear the line for foreigners, for Japanese people they understand the context of it so it doesn't cause as much brow raising.


You realize what you are saying here, right?

Its not a defense, in fact it makes the entire thing even worse

I don't see how my comment makes it worse. It would really help if you backed up your comments in the same post you make the comment so people don't always have to follow up and ask you what you mean.

The lines are all spoken in Japanese. Japanese people are going to understand the context of those lines better than foreigners. The context I am talking about here is the fact that Haru is socially awkward so he doesn't fully understand what he says, and the fact that "okasu zo" can be used just as a threat, and not to literally mean that someone is going to rape another. If a foreigner simply reads the translation "I'm going to rape you," of course they're going to be surprised. The context is not and can not be included in the translation.

As explained in my previous reply, in this particular case, Haru meant what he said literally but at the same time he doesn't understand the meaning behind the words. I don't think anyone believes or expects that Haru would actually go through with what he said.


Surrender Artist wrote:
To me, it suggests something potentially very worrisome about Japanese culture.

Um... no? It only suggests that Japanese people understand the context of their own language better than non-Japanese.
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Fencedude5609



Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 5085

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:11 am Reply with quote
GokuMew2 wrote:

Um... no? It only suggests that Japanese people understand the context of their own language better than non-Japanese.


AND THE CONTEXT IS THAT HE SAID "SHUT UP OR I'LL RAPE YOU"

This isn't up for debate!
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Galap



Joined: 07 Apr 2012
Posts: 1083

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 1:15 am Reply with quote
I'm not one to like to prejudge things, or give in too much of a definitive judgement before I've seen something in it's entirety (or at least majority), so what I'm about to say is unusual for me and therefore testament to the magnitude of the impression I got from a single episode:

From The New World appears like it's going to be something truly great; the 'appears once every few years' kind of great, or the 'joins the ranks with a select few of my favorites' great. Why? Well, it just succeeds on a lot of levels.

The animation is great, especially during the fable section (that monster was COOL! It had a liquid and gaseous quality to it, warping spastically but fluidly as it just kind of slid around very rapidly, leaking trails of pyretic ooze.).

The music is awesome, especially in the opening credits section, where a choir sings a hauntingly altered version of Dvorak's 9th "new world" symphony (I see what they did there lol), over which soars a breakneck electric guitar solo.

From a story perspective, it seems like interesting things are in store. I was amazed by how much the show told us about the setting, and how it didn't have to do it explicitly. I particularly liked she school kids talking about their mostly inscrutible to us subjects. In a society run by the 'gravity' and not mechanical technology as current humans understand it, we don't share too much context with them, so what they're doing is a bit opaque, but you can figure a little bit of it out, and that's what's so cool.

Another thing that struck me was the shot composition. The director/storyboard artist knew what they were doing in a way that most creators of visual media do not. The best example was probably in the introduction, during the part where the 'camera' is spastically going in and out of focus (maybe a little TOO spastically but I digress), there is a certain shot in which we see a school classroom, probably middle school or high school. You see the setting sun through the window, and see how there are few students in the classroom, indicating that school is over and there are just a few people left over there. Suddenly, two of the students are hit by an invisibe blast and just [expletive] disintigrate. The camera cuts before we even get to see anyone's reaction to this, emphasizing how fast things go wrong when they do. The best part about it was the subtlety of how it was shot; the shot didn't seem like it was showing that happen, it was more like it was showing that place, in which that thing happened, if you understand what I'm saying as the difference.

The bottom line is, this show has a certain nuanced showmanship about it that, whether or not it turns out to be ultimately good (though I think it probably will be), it seems to be wanting to be and deserving to be the subject of serious criticism and thought, which is rare for a story in any medium.
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Blood-
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Joined: 07 Mar 2009
Posts: 14073
Location: Toronto, Canada

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:03 am Reply with quote
enurtsol wrote:
Blood- wrote:
Surrender Artist wrote:
To me, it suggests something potentially very worrisome about Japanese culture.


Come on, SA, you are smarter than this. Anyone who thinks that anime/manga is some kind of reliable mirror of Japanese culture is seriously deluded. If you are prepared to make spurious judgments about Japanese culture based on something like this, what do you make of the fact that the US Senate may soon include a member who burbles on about "legitimate" rape? Worry about your own culture before you start wading into waters you know absolutely nothing about.


Oh c'mon, lotsa people who criticize American culture/media aren't in fact Americans. Laughing


If you're going to bother responding to something I write, it would be awesome if it was something relevant. I'm not saying you have to be Japanese to make judgements on Japanese culture, I'm saying it would be nice to use something other than just anime/manga products - a form of entertainment produced for a niche (and often maligned with their own country) audience - as the basis of your opinion.
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GokuMew2



Joined: 15 Dec 2007
Posts: 1483
Location: Tokyo, Japan

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:24 am Reply with quote
Fencedude5609 wrote:
GokuMew2 wrote:

Um... no? It only suggests that Japanese people understand the context of their own language better than non-Japanese.


AND THE CONTEXT IS THAT HE SAID "SHUT UP OR I'LL RAPE YOU"

This isn't up for debate!

Touchy, touchy. So it's fine for you to say what you think of other people's comments/replies yet anything you write "isn't up for debate"? Riiiiiiiiight.

And no, that is not the context. Did you even read a word I wrote? Do you know what context means??
Dictionary.com wrote:
con·text [kon-tekst]
noun
the set of circumstances or facts that surround a particular event, situation, etc.

"Shut up or I'll rape you" is what Haru said, it is not the context. I wrote in my previous reply exactly what the context of this statement was.
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danilo07



Joined: 25 Dec 2011
Posts: 1399

PostPosted: Thu Oct 04, 2012 4:39 am Reply with quote
I don't see any big problem with "SHUT UP OR I'LL RAPE YOU" line,if they are tried to make it seem like that is something romantic then I would,but no it is just a stupid gag.Not to mention that Shizuku starts developing feelings for Haru because he actually starts to change because of her, so he doesn't bother her anymore.
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