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Pfhor



Joined: 12 Apr 2011
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:35 pm Reply with quote
I don't think people should be focusing too much on little logical inconsistencies within the setting when SAO fails on a far more fundamental level when it comes to characters and dialog. This is especially true when it comes to romance.

spoiler[Asuna basically committed character suicide somewhat literally in episode 13, she started as an independent girl who could take care of herself and has now been reduced to a laughably dependent "wife" who threatens to kill herself if Kirito dies. Besides the fact that this transition is boring and stupid, there was no believable character development that took place here, and certainly no reason for Asuna to be as devoted to Gary Sue main character as she is. Any attempt to create chemistry between Kirito and Asuna has been mechanical and forced ("Anime hyper she's throwing the frogs at him"). Since there is no chemistry at all, the romance comes off as something like Attack of the Clones, 2 beautiful perfect people saying their canned lines.]

This compounded with the fact that the fighting has been lackluster and the unique setting has been hardly used in any interesting way makes this a horribly disappointing anime so far.
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otakunomike



Joined: 20 Dec 2011
Posts: 25

PostPosted: Tue Oct 02, 2012 11:50 pm Reply with quote
I wouldn't say Asuna has become a 'dependent wife character' at all. In the previous two episodes she took on the monstrous fish and most of the creatures under the starting city by herself, hardly dependent. What she is is emotionally unstable which is rather understandable when you get trapped in a nightmare for two years starting when you were 15. She fell in love with Kirito, maybe a little fast but circumstances accelerated the condition, and with the stress she's taken from her guild responsibilities she doesn't want to return to being alone in the world without him. The show certainly isn't perfect, there's at least some care being put into what's going on even if it doesn't always show it blatantly (i.e. what's happening in the real world)
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Red Fox of Fire



Joined: 24 Jan 2010
Posts: 228

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:27 am Reply with quote
Fencedude5609 wrote:
Sengoku Collection...and the hands down single best episode of anything in at least the last year or so.

Which episode was that?
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Pfhor



Joined: 12 Apr 2011
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:31 am Reply with quote
otakunomike wrote:
I wouldn't say Asuna has become a 'dependent wife character' at all. In the previous two episodes she took on the monstrous fish and most of the creatures under the starting city by herself, hardly dependent. What she is is emotionally unstable which is rather understandable when you get trapped in a nightmare for two years starting when you were 15. She fell in love with Kirito, maybe a little fast but circumstances accelerated the condition, and with the stress she's taken from her guild responsibilities she doesn't want to return to being alone in the world without him. The show certainly isn't perfect, there's at least some care being put into what's going on even if it doesn't always show it blatantly (i.e. what's happening in the real world)


That's what she said in the latest episode, I feel like that was the intention of the writer but he sure as hell didn't show it during their dialog before that point. She did not seem the least bit scared in episode 2, nor did she seem unstable during their investigation of the town PK, nor when she is cooking for Kirito. Their adventures playing marriage didn't reveal anything meaningful. Her dialog in episode 13 was an example of telling the audience explicitly that character development took place rather than letting us experience it first hand.

Also, even if she's very skilled at fighting, the fact that she feels like she completely needs this guy to live falls under the very definition of dependent. This wasn't a line to show how far she's sunk emotionally, this was an attempt for her to show her complete devotion to this guy.
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A Mystery
Get off my lawn!Get off my lawn!


Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Posts: 727
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:36 am Reply with quote
Where is the review of Humanity has Declined? Is this a sign that the Stream's declining Wink?
No, as usual, good article Bamboo. I agree with you on Tari Tari, immensely enjoyed it.
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ShinnFlowen



Joined: 07 Feb 2012
Posts: 130

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:38 am Reply with quote
I'm glad to hear there are others that found the growth of certain characters in Binbogami ga!'and the comedy to make it stand out this season. It looked like your average high school comedy, but it manage to have a interesting female lead with a personal issue that is not over the top.

Tari Tari:
If it wasn't for Wakana, Konatsu, and Sawa's performances I don't think this show would've turned out good as the male leads were not that interesting. I'm starting to think last season's top shows all had good female leads.

SWORD ART ONLINE:

I'm sure a lot of people are willing to block out their rational thoughts if magic/super natural stuff/aliens or other oddball gimmicks are used in shows, but for a premise using technology there is a limit to what is considered interesting or ridiculous. Thanks to previous discussions of this show I spoiled myself to see if the author was trying to create a show with a greater goal thanspoiler[ a "Death by video game" plot]

I'm watching to see how they execute everything in the end, which will determine if the show is good or not.


Last edited by ShinnFlowen on Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:43 am; edited 3 times in total
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 12014
Location: NZL

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:38 am Reply with quote
A Mystery wrote:
Where is the review of Humanity has Declined?


In case you are asking seriously, it isn't here because Bamboo already covered the final two episodes in the previous column.
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A Mystery
Get off my lawn!Get off my lawn!


Joined: 10 Oct 2010
Posts: 727
Location: Netherlands

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:43 am Reply with quote
Ahhh... of course. I didn't think of that, just saw the jump from 4. to 6., yet the title was still in the list on the right side of the page.
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CrowLia



Joined: 24 Feb 2012
Posts: 1784
Location: Kyoto, Japan

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 12:46 am Reply with quote
Pfhor wrote:
otakunomike wrote:
I wouldn't say Asuna has become a 'dependent wife character' at all. In the previous two episodes she took on the monstrous fish and most of the creatures under the starting city by herself, hardly dependent. What she is is emotionally unstable which is rather understandable when you get trapped in a nightmare for two years starting when you were 15. She fell in love with Kirito, maybe a little fast but circumstances accelerated the condition, and with the stress she's taken from her guild responsibilities she doesn't want to return to being alone in the world without him. The show certainly isn't perfect, there's at least some care being put into what's going on even if it doesn't always show it blatantly (i.e. what's happening in the real world)


That's what she said in the latest episode, I feel like that was the intention of the writer but he sure as hell didn't show it during their dialog before that point. She did not seem the least bit scared in episode 2, nor did she seem unstable during their investigation of the town PK, nor when she is cooking for Kirito. Their adventures playing marriage didn't reveal anything meaningful. Her dialog in episode 13 was an example of telling the audience explicitly that character development took place rather than letting us experience it first hand.

Also, even if she's very skilled at fighting, the fact that she feels like she completely needs this guy to live falls under the very definition of dependent. This wasn't a line to show how far she's sunk emotionally, this was an attempt for her to show her complete devotion to this guy.



While I agree the way she considers Kirito essential to her existence is signal of an unhealthy co-dependant relationship, I'm willing to let it slide because it's a vast improvement from the shit she was made do in episodes 8-9 (which was basically, let Kirito do all the dirty job while she cowered behind him like a useless kitty). Moreover, she's actually saying what she thinks and what she wants and acting according to it. Also, girls (and boys) at that age say "I'll die if you leave me!" all the time; it doesn't make it any less unhealthy, but I wouldn't think too much into it
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Fencedude5609



Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 5064

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:10 am Reply with quote
Red Fox of Fire wrote:
Fencedude5609 wrote:
Sengoku Collection...and the hands down single best episode of anything in at least the last year or so.

Which episode was that?


18. Its completely standalone, also.
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 12014
Location: NZL

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:19 am Reply with quote
Fencedude5609 wrote:
Red Fox of Fire wrote:
Which episode was that?


18. Its completely standalone, also.


So if I watched it after only having seen the first two episodes I wouldn't be too ignorant on what was going on? Because I'm interested in viewing it but don't want to have to watch the preceding episodes.
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Fencedude5609



Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 5064

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:27 am Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:
Fencedude5609 wrote:
Red Fox of Fire wrote:
Which episode was that?


18. Its completely standalone, also.


So if I watched it after only having seen the first two episodes I wouldn't be too ignorant on what was going on? Because I'm interested in viewing it but don't want to have to watch the preceding episodes.


It is completely disconnected from the rest of the show. Hell, most episodes are like that, only like maybe 2/3 even have Nobunaga in them, and the core plotline (such as it is, and what there is of it) takes up like maybe...six episodes, scattered across the entire show.

By and large its a series of vignettes, most (loosely) based on movies, that happen to use the "Sengoku Generals" as a framing device.
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 12014
Location: NZL

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:49 am Reply with quote
Fencedude5609 wrote:
It is completely disconnected from the rest of the show.


Ah, then I will check it out.
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zensunni



Joined: 05 Mar 2010
Posts: 741

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 1:52 am Reply with quote
I loved Tari Tari! It was a fantastic, authentically emotional and uplifting show, with some nice cheesy "Let's Put on a Show" spirit that was reminiscent of Golden Age Hollywood movie musicals. The key to the story telling: understatement. The show didn't try to fool anyone, but it didn't shove the story down your throat either. It left subtle hints for major plot points several episodes in advance of when they were needed and let you feel the impending emotional crisis of each character along with them. In addition, it managed to sneak in just a touch of sweet, sweet romance spoiler[with Taichi and Sawa. The dialog free confession scene, with Sawa's confirmation that she feels the same, followed by Taichi, the stoic and very manly young man that he is, brushing away a tear as her plane flies off to her future was one of the most touching love confession scenes in recent memory.] We didn't need to hear what he said, we could tell what emotions were being conveyed without words. The best mangaka can do this on the page (See Kaoru Mori's "A Bride's Story" and "Emma" for examples. The end of the "Heart of a Bride" chapter in "A Bride's Story" is exquisite!) Anime rarely takes advantage of the visual nature of the medium to do this kind of scene.
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Fencedude5609



Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 5064

PostPosted: Wed Oct 03, 2012 2:30 am Reply with quote
zensunni wrote:
spoiler[with Taichi and Sawa. The dialog free confession scene, with Sawa's confirmation that she feels the same, followed by Taichi, the stoic and very manly young man that he is, brushing away a tear as her plane flies off to her future was one of the most touching love confession scenes in recent memory.]


PFFFFFFTTT

Oh god, thats hilarious. She friendzoned him hard and most likely they'll never even see each other again.
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