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When is this going to switch to an "on demand" setup?


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kanana



Joined: 05 Oct 2012
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 9:00 pm Reply with quote
Having a linear streaming service like this is just asking for failure. I'm not even sure how someone would come up with such a trainwreck of an idea when its abundantly clear these days that tv is dying and on-demand venues (netflix, hulu, etc) are thriving. People; ESPECIALLY the younger generation that is the target audience for anime; have grown used to getting on-demand entertainment and a linear streaming service feels like a huge step backwards.

The fact that Neon Alley mostly touts it's "Exclusive Premieres" of "UNCUT" "dubbed" shows makes me feel that VIZ knew it didn't have enough to offer the consumer with this service, so it had to contrive something. Instead of releasing these "Exclusive Premiere" shows on DVD/BD, people are forced to pay for this service if they want to watch them (or are forced to wait longer and longer to buy the series after its delayed release).

I can't think of ANY advantage (at least, to the consumer) of a linear channel like this.

-People with school/jobs/life presumably don't want to have to base their schedule around what time and day the newest episode of their favorite show is going to air.

-If you miss a week of watching, and miss an episode in your favorite series after its primary "run"...are you just out of luck?

-People watching the first episode of a tv show probably don't prefer to wait a week to watch the next episode (if they have an option to just go online and watch the series).

-Not everyone has a PS3...at least not nearly as many people who have a computer with internet access...whats the advantage of the service going through the PS3/television? The stream isn't even in HD quality consistently.

-A low price of $7 bucks a month doesn't seem so low when I can get around 100 cable channels at about 60 dollars a month. (so if cable might average 60 cents a channel...is Neon Alley worth the cost of about 12 cable channels?)

-This could potentially change...but the number of series being aired seems very limited right now.

-This doesn't even go into the apparently technical and streaming problems people are having but that's a whole other heap to add on to the pile of issues.

Honestly I'm still flabbergasted at how bad the idea of this service is... I feel like it'll die out quickly enough, and somehow it's failure will be blamed on "anime pirating" or "lack of interest in anime" despite the fact that the service was immediately written off by anime fans as a total rip off, months before it was launched. To get people to buy your product, you have to give them reason to shell out the money for it...and Neon Alley has failed entirely at this.

(Sorry for that long jerky rant: but in short...making this service on-demand is the best way to improve it!)
(Also sorry for throwing this rant at you: Viz marketing/PR person...who is just doing your job and might have no direct connection to whatever exec came up with the idea for this service)
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DangerMouse



Joined: 25 Mar 2009
Posts: 1759

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:08 am Reply with quote
I can see the fun in watching a linear channel and not just an on-demand channel, maybe I'm a bit old that way, also I'll admit it gets me to watch some shows I wouldn't necessarily discover/try which I don't really do with on-demand, where I usually just stick with the familiar.

I do think that if possible some kind of even limited record/DVR function within the app would be nice to accommodate those that are really busy so that they could save at least a couple of episodes or premieres or whatever to watch when they have time if they really can't be around for any of the repeated times or if they need to be away for a week or something like on a business trip or whatever.

kanana wrote:
The fact that Neon Alley mostly touts it's "Exclusive Premieres" of "UNCUT" "dubbed" shows makes me feel that VIZ knew it didn't have enough to offer the consumer with this service, so it had to contrive something. Instead of releasing these "Exclusive Premiere" shows on DVD/BD, people are forced to pay for this service if they want to watch them (or are forced to wait longer and longer to buy the series after its delayed release).


Hmm...at the moment I think that's kind of an over-reaction. You do realize they've already dated home releases for several of these, such as the first BD for Inuyasha: The Final Act not to mention the BD of their most heavily advertised October premiere of the moment in the Berserk Movie, right?

I agree that as someone who also likes to own my favorite shows (and particularly on BD for the best quality) that I hope this does not delay home releases so I agree with the concern but I'm not sure that's happening yet. Hopefully they won't wait until the entire T&B etc. have aired and maybe they'll get them out by halfway.

Speaking of home releases, if they won't get out those freaking sets for me I hope they can put Monster on this so I can at least see it again since I stupidly didn't record it on Syfy Sad

The only real technical problems people are having (including me once or twice) sound like the typical bugs and issues from something new or something that's currently ramping up on load with all the people doing the trial. Generally speaking the video and audio has been good especially with the new widescreen stuff like Tiger & Bunny, Blue Exorcist, etc.

And sure people watching the first episode of a TV show wait a week to see the next, how do you think people watched 24 or Doctor Who, or any of the Star Treks etc. many of which have ongoing stories, or any of the prime time shows on TV?

At least for now it also looks like their airing repeats of the premieres a large number of times at various times on multiple days so there should be a time where most people can catch the premiere(s) they want. I guess I'm just used to occasionally having to plan around a certain show I really have to see even if I have to see the repeat.

I assume they'll add more shows regularly, they've still got plenty more stuff they haven't put on yet like say Monster for instance, and they've already got two more already planned in Zetman and Lagrange.


Last edited by DangerMouse on Sat Oct 06, 2012 3:57 am; edited 1 time in total
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Raikuro



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 192

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 3:41 am Reply with quote
DangerMouse wrote:
Speaking of home releases, if they won't get out those freaking sets for me I hope they can put Monster on this so I can at least see it again since I stupidly didn't record it on Syfy Sad

http://www.youtube.com/​playlist?​list=​EL4thU0mK7dNc&​feature=​plcp
There you go, a lot easier than hoping to catch a random episode at 4am.
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DangerMouse



Joined: 25 Mar 2009
Posts: 1759

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 3:59 am Reply with quote
Raikuro wrote:
DangerMouse wrote:
Speaking of home releases, if they won't get out those freaking sets for me I hope they can put Monster on this so I can at least see it again since I stupidly didn't record it on Syfy Sad

http://www.youtube.com/​playlist?​list=​EL4thU0mK7dNc&​feature=​plcp
There you go, a lot easier than hoping to catch a random episode at 4am.


Ah, awesome, thank you!! Very Happy
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kanana



Joined: 05 Oct 2012
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 12:49 pm Reply with quote
DangerMouse wrote:

Hmm...at the moment I think that's kind of an over-reaction. You do realize they've already dated home releases for several of these, such as the first BD for Inuyasha: The Final Act not to mention the BD of their most heavily advertised October premiere of the moment in the Berserk Movie, right?
.


Its true, I guess I don't have all the info the back that up completely quite yet, though I guess I got the feeling that it was happening from the T&B release dates.

Originally, there was no release date announced for the T&B dvds, and when there was finally one announced, it was for the DVD release in England; which was to include Viz's dub. The release was dated for October (now, basically). It was weird to hear a release date for a European release first, especially since they were essentially releasing the same thing that would be released on the American DVDs, with the American dub by Viz.

Later on, Viz announced the DVD release of T&B in the US as "sometime early 2013" and people were confused why the American release had such a long delay for seemingly no reason in comparison with the English release. Later on the release date for England's release was retracted and pushed back to match the "early 2013" date for the US.

The delay was blamed on the dubbing schedule, but given the timing of the dates, some people suspected that Viz wanted the show to air on Neon Alley exclusively first so delayed the release. You are right though, it doesn't confirm anything...just a possibility....that was me gettin' over-sassy in my rant.
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DangerMouse



Joined: 25 Mar 2009
Posts: 1759

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 9:41 pm Reply with quote
kanana wrote:
DangerMouse wrote:

Hmm...at the moment I think that's kind of an over-reaction. You do realize they've already dated home releases for several of these, such as the first BD for Inuyasha: The Final Act not to mention the BD of their most heavily advertised October premiere of the moment in the Berserk Movie, right?
.


Its true, I guess I don't have all the info the back that up completely quite yet, though I guess I got the feeling that it was happening from the T&B release dates.

Originally, there was no release date announced for the T&B dvds, and when there was finally one announced, it was for the DVD release in England; which was to include Viz's dub. The release was dated for October (now, basically). It was weird to hear a release date for a European release first, especially since they were essentially releasing the same thing that would be released on the American DVDs, with the American dub by Viz.

Later on, Viz announced the DVD release of T&B in the US as "sometime early 2013" and people were confused why the American release had such a long delay for seemingly no reason in comparison with the English release. Later on the release date for England's release was retracted and pushed back to match the "early 2013" date for the US.

The delay was blamed on the dubbing schedule, but given the timing of the dates, some people suspected that Viz wanted the show to air on Neon Alley exclusively first so delayed the release. You are right though, it doesn't confirm anything...just a possibility....that was me gettin' over-sassy in my rant.


Ah, that may be true, if so that'd be disappointing since I want to own T&B too regardless of if I watch it on here or not, so as I said I do totally agree with the concern.
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Mr. sickVisionz



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 1523

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 10:06 pm Reply with quote
Raikuro wrote:
I suppose you're right. As it is now, it is long running ad for Viz products. You have to pay to potentially see something you like, while being forced to see episodes of other shows from Viz's library, on top of Viz raking in money from commercials. They're COUNTING ON people to miss a few eps so they would be inclined to go out and spend more money on the DVD/Blus.

Having a video service that conveniently allows anime fans to catch new shows at a decent price is the opposite of what Neon Alley (i.e. Glorified Mass Advertising Campaign) is all about.


That seems a bit insane to me. If it was VOD, how would it not be a Glorified Mass Advertising Campaign designed for you to see more shows with the goal being that you see more shows you might want to buy?

Additionally, a huge chunk of the content is available on other PS3 capable services or on websites. If you really miss an episode of One Piece, you can goto Hulu and not only watch the episode you missed, but discover that there's like 500 episode you can watch right now rather than waiting a few years for Neon Alley to catch up.

For the service in general...
I get the allure of it being channel like, but to me it's a failure. The main lure is the convenience, but it's not like a TV channel where my TV is on and it takes like 3 seconds to type in a channel number and be watching it. First I have to find my PS3 controller (which I may have to search for or actually stand up and walk to, maybe the battery is dead so I have to stand by the PS3 anytime I want to make a change), wait for the system to boot, wait for the app to boot, then hope something good is on. Nothing about that is convenient so I don't get the point of a delivery model that pretends it is.

You have to deliberately want to watch anime. There won't be many cases of just flipping to Neon Alley because there is a process involved to getting it up and going. For me, the process to me is one so involved that I would probably only do it specifically when I know what I want to watch and know that it's on. At that point though, I'd be better served by VOD and it certainly doesn't help that so much of the content is available on actual VOD services, all of which are on the PS3.

To me the market is like PS3 owners who hate the concept of subtitles and will refuse to watch anime unless it's dubbed, even if it means they'll have to wait months to years to see episodes that have been available on other outlets for months to years and are still available there. Additionally, they have no clue what they want to watch and don't want to be bothered to do something as arduous as browse Netflix, Crunchyroll, or Hulu, but they have the patience to go through the process of getting their PS3 and the app up and running in hopes that something they like *might* be on.

Seems like a really niche market to me, but maybe I'm wrong. Best of luck to Viz either way.
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Raikuro



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 192

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 11:36 pm Reply with quote
Mr. sickVisionz wrote:

That seems a bit insane to me. If it was VOD, how would it not be a Glorified Mass Advertising Campaign designed for you to see more shows with the goal being that you see more shows you might want to buy?


Because they are counting on people missing episodes, so they would have to buy something if they want to see them all, or do the unlikely thing and schedule their life around a glitchy PS3 anime app.

VOD provides full access to each episode whatever time you want as they premiere, which is almost as convenient as owning the show... Viz can't stand for that.
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Divineking



Joined: 03 Jul 2010
Posts: 1086

PostPosted: Mon Oct 08, 2012 1:08 pm Reply with quote
Raikuro wrote:
Mr. sickVisionz wrote:

That seems a bit insane to me. If it was VOD, how would it not be a Glorified Mass Advertising Campaign designed for you to see more shows with the goal being that you see more shows you might want to buy?


Because they are counting on people missing episodes, so they would have to buy something if they want to see them all, or do the unlikely thing and schedule their life around a glitchy PS3 anime app.

VOD provides full access to each episode whatever time you want as they premiere, which is almost as convenient as owning the show... Viz can't stand for that.


Exactly. I don't see why some of people wondering why'd they do this kind of format ask this when it's really bloody obvious. This service pretty much exists to promote their releases, the first interview they did on ANN when they announced it confirmed that as fact. Having it be VOD would frankly be more harmful from a profit standpoint than it being a linear channel.

After all why would anyone pay $50 to own a DVD/BD when they can have all the episodes for just $7 a month and get other shows to go with it? At least this way there's some incentive for people to buy the actual releases. Of course this isn't exactly ideal from a consumer standpoint but it's totally understandable why it's being done this way.
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katsura76



Joined: 02 Dec 2009
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 9:24 am Reply with quote
it's being done this way because it basically eliminates theft. As soon as a DVD is released then some jackass rips the episodes and uploads it for the world. There is no incentive to purchase the DVD when one knows they can go online and get it for free within a week of its release. Often people who pre-order get the DVD early and it is actually online sooner than the street date. Now if you want to see a new dub you will either have to wait for the DVD release or subscribe for a really fair price of $7 a month. Anime fans need to stop complaining about the state of the industry they caused and just support it. I realize not everyone steals anime, nut the industry isn't hurting so bad because of only a few people. No one will ever admit to downloading anime for free but obviously someone is doing it. I am so tired of anime fans complaining. Even if you can't be available to watch Neon Alley as often as you like Viz is trying to be a pioneer and do something to save the industry you all claim to care about so much. If you own a PS3 isn't it worth seven stupid dollars a month to support something you enjoy so much, and obviously enjoy enough to post at or visit forums dedicated to it?
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bleachj0j



Joined: 22 Nov 2008
Posts: 487

PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:04 pm Reply with quote
It seems Viz is uploading the episodes as they come out for download to own PSN/XBox Live/Itunes/Amazon Marketplace.

Also on a Facebook comment they mentioned Fairy Tail and some other titles being discussed with Funimation
Quote:
Oh! That's with FUNimation right? We'll see what we can do. We have to talk to them about Fairy Tail and a couple of other titles too.
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walw6pK4Alo



Joined: 12 Mar 2008
Posts: 8131

PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 5:33 pm Reply with quote
katsura76 wrote:
If you own a PS3 isn't it worth seven stupid dollars a month to support something you enjoy so much, and obviously enjoy enough to post at or visit forums dedicated to it?


If you have a Hulu Plus, FUNi, CR, and whatever else accounts already going, no, no it's not worth it for limited dub-only content, and it's all inconvenient to get to and use. It's not even the equivalent of subscribing to an actual linear TV channel like FUNi's; I can still set my DVR to record whatever content shows up there and watch it on my own time.
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Vata Raven



Joined: 21 May 2007
Posts: 706
Location: TN

PostPosted: Thu Oct 11, 2012 10:56 pm Reply with quote
Mr. sickVisionz wrote:
For the service in general...
I get the allure of it being channel like, but to me it's a failure. The main lure is the convenience, but it's not like a TV channel where my TV is on and it takes like 3 seconds to type in a channel number and be watching it. First I have to find my PS3 controller (which I may have to search for or actually stand up and walk to, maybe the battery is dead so I have to stand by the PS3 anytime I want to make a change), wait for the system to boot, wait for the app to boot, then hope something good is on. Nothing about that is convenient so I don't get the point of a delivery model that pretends it is.

...or download the weekly schedule and check it beforehand. But holy crap, you have to get up and get the damn PS3 controller when you feel like playing a game, it honestly is NOT that much work to get off the damn couch to get the remote and turn the bloody system on. If you do, then that shows how lazy people can be.
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Neon Alley Moderator
Company Representative


Joined: 03 Oct 2012
Posts: 59
Location: San Francisco

PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 8:21 pm Reply with quote
bleachj0j wrote:
It seems Viz is uploading the episodes as they come out for download to own PSN/XBox Live/Itunes/Amazon Marketplace.



Yeah, with everyone's feedback so far, we understand that the service doesn't reach everyone, so we're sticking to our original habit of releasing the dubbed eps via DTO as if it were on traditional cable or TV.

XBox Live
iTunes
Amazon Video On Demand
Google Play
and
PSN

Hmm, I hope I haven't missed anyone.

Anyways, its not a perfect fix, but its what we can do right now for people who want to enjoy their anime legally, on their other devices. I'll have to talk to the dev team about allowing DVR, but would a "catch-up" type option work also?
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kanana



Joined: 05 Oct 2012
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Fri Oct 12, 2012 10:10 pm Reply with quote
[quote="Neon Alley Moderator"]
bleachj0j wrote:


Hmm, I hope I haven't missed anyone.

Anyways, its not a perfect fix, but its what we can do right now for people who want to enjoy their anime legally, on their other devices. I'll have to talk to the dev team about allowing DVR, but would a "catch-up" type option work also?


If I had known they were uploading the exclusive premiere episodes for download a day after airing my jerky rant above would have been... a lot less jerky Anime hyper. I'm glad there is a new option available, and it manages to be convenient and legal. This is a good step in the right direction, it offers the new dubbed shows to people who can't or don't want Neon Alley so thumbs up to this.
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