Forum - View topicBlast of Tempest (TV).
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Spotlesseden
Posts: 3514 Location: earth |
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Anime already doesn't need to follow conventional reason. They can do whatever they want with the reason. |
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Tuor_of_Gondolin
 Posts: 3524 Location: Bellevue, WA |
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That's not a spoiler[time loop. That's a reversal of cause and effect: the future effects the past. It's only a loop when time loops itself, which results in the same events happening more than once. What is believed to happen when the Tree resets civlization is a loop (though not a time loop). Instead, from the perspective of each individual, time proceeds linearly: each person only experiences any specific event one time, and each event only occurs one time. So, there is no looping going on.] I'm not saying that there's not some spoiler[time-bending shenanigans going on: clearly there is. Events from the future do effect the past. I'm just saying that it's not a case of the same events occuring repeatedly, which is what would make it a time loop.] |
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Arkov
 Posts: 120 |
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spoiler[spoiler[So past Yoshino/Mahiro will not now grieve for 6 months, find past Hakaze's doll, talk to her, get her off the island, go through all the events of the series, right up until past Hakaze travels back in time to find out who killed Aika? And another Hakaze must exist, else future Hakaze will need to go spend another 2 years on that island and pretend like she hasn't already done that. There is a constant loop (loopdy-loop, if you will) where they reach the point in time where Hakaze decides to travel back in time. Not a loop in the conventional sense, where they're stuck, but a loop that spawns infinite paralell universes.]] Another paradox: spoiler[for Hakaze to go back in time to find out who killed Aika, she needs to not know who killed Aika. As soon as she finds out, she would have no reason for going back in time. Since she has no reason to go back in time, she cannot know that Aika killed herself, therefore must travel back in time to find out who killed Aika...] Time travel in and of itself is entirely illogical. There are very, very few ways to make it work, the movie that made the most sense with it (that I can think of) is The Butterfly Effect. |
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Yttrbio
 Posts: 3652 |
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Yeah, none of your paradoxes are actually registering as paradoxes or loops to me. spoiler[Are you assuming that she isn't going to jump forward again after all this, and instead just chill out on the island? Hakaze never spent 2 years on the island, her skeleton did. When she jumps back forward, I assume she'll leave the skeleton behind. (The skeleton itself isn't traveling through time at all) I see no difficulty with drawing a straight path for any person/object in the series that doesn't involve loops or parallel universes or anything.]
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Arkov
Posts: 120 |
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If she does spoiler[jump back forward, another Hakaze will have to take her place in order for Mahiro/Yoshino to be sent on their little adventure. If there is no Hakaze on the island, Yoshino and Mahiro will never talk to her and will never end up influencing the events of the series. The tree of Exodus will be revived (which, judging from recent events, would probably be a good thing).] If all Hakaze did was spoiler[go back in time and witness the past, without changing a thing, there would be no paradox. As soon as she influenced the past, the paradox was created: she has to go back in time to influence Aika to kill herself, leading to the events of the series. This has happened before. If she does not go back in time, Mahiro/Yoshina become metal men. The end.] |
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Yttrbio
Posts: 3652 |
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I was pretty sure they came to the conclusion on the mountain that spoiler[Hakaze was speaking to them from 2 years ago. There didn't need to be one on the island at the time.]
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Tuor_of_Gondolin
Posts: 3524 Location: Bellevue, WA |
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This is going to be pretty much all spoiler due to the nature of the discussion. So my apologies ahead of time for the wall of black that's coming... spoiler[The future influencing the past is indeed going on, and it is due to Hazake's time travelling. While it might create a paradox, I don't think it creates a time loop. I'm not sure if it creates a branching timeline at all.] Let's look at it from Hazake's point of view, spoiler[as she is the only one who actually does any time travelling...] 1. spoiler[2+ years prior to the start of the show, Hazake is imprisoned on a deserted island.] 2. spoiler[1.75 years prior to the start of the show, Hazake makes contact with Mahiro, and a few weeks after that, her 2 years in the past (-2y) body his brought forward in time, leaving her -2y bones behind.] 3. spoiler[1 year prior to the start of the show, present Hazake's body returns to her -1y bones on that self-same island. But as Hazake now has access to physical tech, she is able to leave the island. Hazake makes contact with Aika and tells her what will happen in Aika's future. Aika decides to kill herself in order to ensure those events actually take place.] 4. (assumed) spoiler[Hazake returns to the island and again initiates time travel of her -1y body into the present, again leaving only her -1y bones behind.] 5. spoiler[At the start of the anime, Mahiro comes into contact with -2y Hazake, who doesn't know she is communicating across time. As a result of Mahiro and Yoshino's actions, -2y's Hazake's body is brought into her 'present' bones, which had been removed from the island by Samon.] 6. spoiler[Hazake decides to time travel into her past (as oppose to moving into her future) and occupies -1y Hazake bones.] 7. (assumed) spoiler[-1y Hazake returns from the past and reoccupies her 'present' bones.] 8. (assumed) spoiler[Present Hazake remains in her present bones from that point on.] spoiler[So, at every point, there is only one set of bones that move through time normally. However, Hazake's body (and consciousness) does jump forward 2 years, then back 1 year, then forward 1 year. Her consciousness is also only in one place at any given time: there are no duplicate Hazakes at any point in the timeline, and Hazake only experiences any particular event one time. However, what she *does* do is:] 1. spoiler[Communicates across time so that her future (the anime's present) effects her present, allowing her to jump forward in time.] 2. spoiler[Goes physically into the past and informs someone at that point in the timeline of what will happen in the future of that timeline. Again, the future effects the past.] spoiler[None of these things require additional timelines to be created. Each point of time is only crossed once by each person, and each event happens only once: there is no event that happens once one way, and then again in a different way due to interference from the future. So, I don't see any need for there to be multiple timelines, let alone infinite ones.] Again, apologies for the huge amount of spoiler-text. |
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ookamigirl
 Posts: 2274 Location: Croatia |
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Episode 22
spoiler[Episode dedicated to Aika. Hakaze made it safely back, but things are not looking good. Well, at least those two now know the truth.. Hanemura's reaction to Mahiro & Yoshino's reaction about Aika's death was surprising. Flashbacks to the past were nice.] |
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DuskyPredator
 Posts: 15462 Location: Brisbane, Australia |
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Episode 22
Just wondering, if they are worried that the spoiler[mage of Exodus is wanted because it is against the tree of Genesis], there is another way they could fix things. Couldn't they have the spoiler[Dancing Princess which the world sees as the protect of the tree, do a bunch of bad things, they can't even use their magic near the pillar anyway], so the whole point of having Hakaze could be to make it look like spoiler[the world would be better without the tree of Genesis]. I was not quite expecting Mahiro and Yoshino's reactions, spoiler[they both seemed to accept what Hakaze experienced and did not blame her,] |
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Rhyono
Posts: 1039 |
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spoiler[How would you not notice a big gun like that. Come on.] All I have to say on that episode.
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ookamigirl
Posts: 2274 Location: Croatia |
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Episode 23
spoiler[So the plan is finally revealed. Hakaze & Yoshino's emotions were clouding their judgement. I get it, any girl would be angry on an indecisive guy. Yoshino needs to get over Aika or things are gonna get even more complicated. Well, at least some of them were enjoying the tropical paradise ^^] And so the fighting begins... |
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kpk
 Posts: 484 |
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Final episode was Meh.
All series as a whole was Meh+. My God what a pointless series. Bones should have made Shinsekai Yori instead, and A-1 should have handed this series. |
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drdr48
Posts: 360 |
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Yep, pretty much what he said^^...
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A Mystery
 Posts: 1886 Location: Netherlands |
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I liked the last episode, though it was drawn out too much. Fitting conclusion.
@kpk: I don't know your usual tastes, but I found it enjoyable. Its point wasn't to be as deep as Shin Sekai Yori / From the New World, but it kept us guessing as for what would happen next, had nice action, fun characters (like Samon and Aika) and I had to laugh out loud a couple of times. The show was deliberately dramatic and poked fun at this aspect too. Out of interest, what were the parts you didn't like about this series? |
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Galap
Moderator
 Posts: 2354 |
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I agree for the most part with kpk too, except for the studio part. I don't think studios matter very much to a production, and as far as studios go, A1 probably has a better track record for me than bones, but I've liked and disliked stuff from both of them.
About the series, well, there were some cool things, but a fair deal of bullshit. In terms of general feel, this one kind of reminded me of a lot of those 'larger than life character drama with fantastical elements' series, like Code Geass or Death Note. I was lukewarm on those, as am I on this one. |
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