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About FUNimation's end credits.


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Key
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:18 am Reply with quote
Domayv wrote:
Vata Raven wrote:
because...believe it or not...dub fans still out-number sub fans. They cater to the casual anime fan that want dubs. So of course they're going to list the English casting first, it's what they expect will be listened to first.

Hell, I never watch a single anime subbed, unless there is no English audio track. The Japanese credits don't mean a damn thing to me.


All the other companies credited the Japanese first and the English last

Did you actually bother to look at Zalis116's post before typing this? I can confirm, through extensive experience, that ADV typically put their English cast credits first (and production credits last), and Sentai has continued that practice on titles that they dub. Some other releases (some of Geneon's, I think?) listed the English and Japanese VAs for each role together at the beginning.

Frankly, I prefer the English dub credits first since I'm normally more interested in who voiced the dub roles than the original Japanese. In fact, the most irritating credits are the ones who just list the English performers as a block at the end without even specifying which roles they play. (This was actually fairly common from some companies back in the early to-mid 2000s releases but has, thankfully, been much rarer of later.) It doesn't seem like a big deal either way, though.
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SpacemanHardy



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 11:29 am Reply with quote
People.... People..... PEOPLE.....


It's Domayv.

He pulls the same kinda stuff over at the FUNi forums too. It's useless trying to reason with him. Just ignore him.
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penguintruth



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 12:51 pm Reply with quote
But it's the Japanese who originated the show, the characters, everything about the production. Shouldn't they rightfully be first?

I mean, it hardly matters in the long run, so long as everyone gets credited, but saying, "The English credits go first because that's what I/most people watch" is a little disrespectful. It's a Japanese cartoon. They did it first. Therefore, it makes sense they go first. Without them, the cartoon you're watching wouldn't exist.

And yes, I feel that movies based on works by authors should credit the authors immediately (should the author like). It should be the first credit you see. If the original work wasn't written to begin with, the movie wouldn't exist.
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Vata Raven



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 2:31 pm Reply with quote
penguintruth wrote:
I mean, it hardly matters in the long run, so long as everyone gets credited, but saying, "The English credits go first because that's what I/most people watch" is a little disrespectful. It's a Japanese cartoon. They did it first. Therefore, it makes sense they go first. Without them, the cartoon you're watching wouldn't exist.

But the English credits are far LESS then the Japanese, the English credits aren't nearly as long. And so what if it was made in Japan, Funimation and Sentai list the SMALL English cast first because...honestly, anime are just 2-d drawn characters, they have no voices to begin with.
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nbahn
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:23 pm Reply with quote
Vata Raven--
I think that you are making a mountain out of a molehill -- it does not matter (in my very humble opinion) which credits come first. I will say that I like the way that the way The Third: The Girl With the Blue Eye was done. The original ending credits were shown, followed by the translated ending credits in a separate ending credits.
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NJ_



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:34 pm Reply with quote
Zalis116 wrote:
Frankly, I'm far less concerned about crediting order than I am about some of Funi's other many crimes against end credits, such as:

Doing a slow zoom out on a freezeframe instead of showing the actual video (My Bride is a Mermaid)

Massive overlays to cover scrolling credits over episode footage (Sekirei)

Squishing and distorting an actual epilogue to 1/3 size, as if you're watching reruns on some cable TV network (Ragnarok the Animation)

Reducing the normal end credits video as well as the last-episode epilogue to 1/5 size to scroll English credits on a mostly-black screen (Birdy the Mighty Decode)

These all stemmed from cases where Funi couldn't/wouldn't get the creditless versions, or for unique (usually final) episodes where creditless versions didn't exist. It was so bad for awhile that whenever Funi announced some show that had credits playing over action in the last episode, people assumed a priori that Funi would mess it up.


Trigun says hi!
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penguintruth



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 4:56 pm Reply with quote
Vata Raven wrote:
penguintruth wrote:
I mean, it hardly matters in the long run, so long as everyone gets credited, but saying, "The English credits go first because that's what I/most people watch" is a little disrespectful. It's a Japanese cartoon. They did it first. Therefore, it makes sense they go first. Without them, the cartoon you're watching wouldn't exist.

But the English credits are far LESS then the Japanese, the English credits aren't nearly as long. And so what if it was made in Japan, Funimation and Sentai list the SMALL English cast first because...honestly, anime are just 2-d drawn characters, they have no voices to begin with.


The shows do not exist without the Japanese original. It came first, therefore it deserves first billing. Plain and simple. They. Made. The. Show.

Go watch an American cartoon if it bothers you. No Japanese credits at all. Plenty of good ones out there.

You have so little respect for the people who make these shows, why do you watch them at all? Are you under the impression than Funimation made Fullmetal Alchemist, Deadman Wonderland, and Panty & Stocking? They didn't.

The English dub is an extra, it's an add on to sell the show to people who prefer to watch things in English. It's not an absolute necessity. The show exists without it. Therefore, the people involved in the dub are secondary.
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Blood-
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:02 pm Reply with quote
penguintruth wrote:
But it's the Japanese who originated the show, the characters, everything about the production. Shouldn't they rightfully be first?


No. Funi clients are not buying the original Japanese product. They are buying an official localized version of the original Japanese product. To me, it makes more sense that the localized version gets credited first.
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penguintruth



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 5:19 pm Reply with quote
But they are buying the original Japanese product. It's in the animation, in the music, it's the very fiber of the thing they're watching. Maybe if you're watching a dub-only disc they wouldn't have to list the Japanese voice cast, but those are the ones that originated those roles in the very show you're watching.
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Domayv



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:42 pm Reply with quote
Key wrote:
Domayv wrote:
Vata Raven wrote:
because...believe it or not...dub fans still out-number sub fans. They cater to the casual anime fan that want dubs. So of course they're going to list the English casting first, it's what they expect will be listened to first.

Hell, I never watch a single anime subbed, unless there is no English audio track. The Japanese credits don't mean a damn thing to me.


All the other companies credited the Japanese first and the English last

Did you actually bother to look at Zalis116's post before typing this? I can confirm, through extensive experience, that ADV typically put their English cast credits first (and production credits last), and Sentai has continued that practice on titles that they dub. Some other releases (some of Geneon's, I think?) listed the English and Japanese VAs for each role together at the beginning.

Frankly, I prefer the English dub credits first since I'm normally more interested in who voiced the dub roles than the original Japanese. In fact, the most irritating credits are the ones who just list the English performers as a block at the end without even specifying which roles they play. (This was actually fairly common from some companies back in the early to-mid 2000s releases but has, thankfully, been much rarer of later.) It doesn't seem like a big deal either way, though.


Here's how ADV listed the credits (judging from Elfen Lied):

Script
Storyboards & Episode Direction
Animation Director
English Vocal Cast
Japanese Vocal Cast
other Japanese stuff
the "English version by" (Called "English Version & Subtiting by)
other English stuff

Funimation's example:
the "English version by" (called "English reversioned", "English version", and "Reversioned")
English Vocal Cast
other English stuff
Japanese Vocal Cast
other Japanese stuff

other examples (viz, Media Blasters, Geneon, Bandai):
Japanese Vocal Cast
other Japanese stuff
the "English version by"
English Vocal Cast
other English stuff

penguintruth wrote:
Vata Raven wrote:
penguintruth wrote:
I mean, it hardly matters in the long run, so long as everyone gets credited, but saying, "The English credits go first because that's what I/most people watch" is a little disrespectful. It's a Japanese cartoon. They did it first. Therefore, it makes sense they go first. Without them, the cartoon you're watching wouldn't exist.

But the English credits are far LESS then the Japanese, the English credits aren't nearly as long. And so what if it was made in Japan, Funimation and Sentai list the SMALL English cast first because...honestly, anime are just 2-d drawn characters, they have no voices to begin with.


The shows do not exist without the Japanese original. It came first, therefore it deserves first billing. Plain and simple. They. Made. The. Show.

Go watch an American cartoon if it bothers you. No Japanese credits at all. Plenty of good ones out there.

You have so little respect for the people who make these shows, why do you watch them at all? Are you under the impression than Funimation made Fullmetal Alchemist, Deadman Wonderland, and Panty & Stocking? They didn't.

The English dub is an extra, it's an add on to sell the show to people who prefer to watch things in English. It's not an absolute necessity. The show exists without it. Therefore, the people involved in the dub are secondary.


also agreed


Last edited by Domayv on Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:54 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Blood-
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:46 pm Reply with quote
penguintruth wrote:
But they are buying the original Japanese product. It's in the animation, in the music, it's the very fiber of the thing they're watching. Maybe if you're watching a dub-only disc they wouldn't have to list the Japanese voice cast, but those are the ones that originated those roles in the very show you're watching.


No, they are not buying the original Japanese product. The original Japanese product did not come with an English dub. The R1 distributor provided that. The original Japanese product did not come with an English subtitle track. The R1 distributor provided that. You seem to feel it's ... rude ... for the original Japanese creators not to be cited first, but from a business standpoint there is absolutely nothing unusual about the localization credits coming first.
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penguintruth



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 6:53 pm Reply with quote
Blood- wrote:
No, they are not buying the original Japanese product. The original Japanese product did not come with an English dub. The R1 distributor provided that. The original Japanese product did not come with an English subtitle track. The R1 distributor provided that. You seem to feel it's ... rude ... for the original Japanese creators not to be cited first, but from a business standpoint there is absolutely nothing unusual about the localization credits coming first.


The English dub is a marketing tool. The Japanese version is the actual show.

The people who actually MADE the show should be credited first.
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manicli



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:26 pm Reply with quote
penguintruth wrote:
Blood- wrote:
No, they are not buying the original Japanese product. The original Japanese product did not come with an English dub. The R1 distributor provided that. The original Japanese product did not come with an English subtitle track. The R1 distributor provided that. You seem to feel it's ... rude ... for the original Japanese creators not to be cited first, but from a business standpoint there is absolutely nothing unusual about the localization credits coming first.


The English dub is a marketing tool. The Japanese version is the actual show.

The people who actually MADE the show should be credited first.


Well if you want Japanese credits seen first then go buy the import, problem solved Smile

But in all seriousness, the animation/music might be Japanese but it's the R1 release not the Japanese release. It is a North American release not an IMPORT so therefore the North Americans should be listed first.

Does anyone own a Japanese release of a Disney movie? Well I don't but I suspect that if it was dubbed in Japanese, then the Japanese voice actors would appear first. But that's just speculation I have no actual proof, but it does make sense to me.
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penguintruth



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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:28 pm Reply with quote
Just because it's an English release doesn't give them the right to put their credits first (yes, I'm aware they have the LEGAL right to, but that's not my point). They only have the ability to sell the show because of the hard work of the Japanese studio that made it. Without the Japanese staff, they have nothing. Therefore, the Japanese staff should get credited first.

The NA licensor/English dub studio did not make the damn show. They're just leasing it. Out of respect, the credits to the Japanese version should come first, ideally.


Last edited by penguintruth on Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:36 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 7:34 pm Reply with quote
And don't forget to fulminate about how they changed Gyrorobo's name.
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