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NEWS: The Anime Network Removes 1st To Love-Ru Darkness Episode


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dragonrider_cody



Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Posts: 1827

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:27 pm Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:
dragonrider_cody wrote:
Yes, and I hope you get fired for posting such idiotic comments. Rai only does what the higher ups tell him. He is not in charge of the company or the scheduling. He did what he was instructed to do. There is no reason to wish someone to lose their job after they did exactly what they were instructed to do. It's a an episode of anime series, not a life and death situation. Get over yourself.


Tell me; do you read what you write before you post it? Because you should.

Rai dismissed TheAncientOne's warning and actually implied that he (TheAncientOne) had the wrong time himself. Rai did not double-check the scheduling. Rai - despite all the resources he presumably has at his disposal, like a bloody clock and calander - did not realise what was so obvious to many fans out there. Rai did not alert his superiors that there might be a problem, which he has an obligation to do. This affair may cause TAN difficulty in licensing titles for streaming for the foreseeable future.

So yeah, Rai was rude to a person trying to help him and his company, and his failure to heed a warning has resulted in his company's reputation being tarnished. People have been legitimately fired for less.



P.S. Do you think my employer reads ANN and will say "gosh, this guy dtm42 - whose real-life identity we inexplicitly just happen to know, and who co-incidentally works for us - reasonably wants a douchebag who effed up in their job to be fired. That's not nice. Let's fire him as well"? Do you really think that will happen? Dream on.


I'm sorry. I wasn't aware you worked at Anime Network and personally saw what was going in behind the scenes. Of course, if that's true, why didn't you stop it? *rolls eyes*

There is no need to be childish and resort to name calling over a damn anime simulcast. It's a TV show. No one was hurt over the incident. It's entertainment, not surgery. Grow up. Shit happens. Mistakes are made. None of us know exactly what happened, but its not like Rai uploaded the episode himself without clearance. He simply followed the schedule as he was instructed to do. He wasn't even rude in his reply. He simply responded with the information he was provided. Rai doesn't have anything to do with setting the schedules there.
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agila61



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 3199
Location: NE Ohio

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:38 pm Reply with quote
EmperorBrandon wrote:
At least for now, it doesn't look like any of the older TBS licenses have been yanked from TAN at least, thankfully. ...

I'd expect its easier to get away with it if the materials haven't been handed over. Indeed, the US streaming site could be in the right ... but that still doesn't mean they'll be handed the tapes if some member of the production committee raises an objection.

Also, if its partly a "demonstration of seriousness", you wouldn't want a demonstration of seriousness to actually interfere with the home video distributor. Indeed, you might not want it to actually inconvenience TAN's cable video on demand channel.
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dragonrider_cody



Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Posts: 1827

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 8:46 pm Reply with quote
agila61 wrote:
EmperorBrandon wrote:
At least for now, it doesn't look like any of the older TBS licenses have been yanked from TAN at least, thankfully. ...

I'd expect its easier to get away with it if the materials haven't been handed over. Indeed, the US streaming site could be in the right ... but that still doesn't mean they'll be handed the tapes if some member of the production committee raises an objection.

Also, if its partly a "demonstration of seriousness", you wouldn't want a demonstration of seriousness to actually interfere with the home video distributor. Indeed, you might not want it to actually inconvenience TAN's cable video on demand channel.


I honestly doubt TBS would intentionally sabotage the vast majority of their library being distributed in the US right now over one simulcast. Sabotaging your US profits seems like a massive overreaction to one episode being broadcast ahead of time. Other than K-On!, TBS has always seemed very rational to deal with, and Sentai has said they are a great company to work with. I know for a long time that the head of their international licensing was also an American, so that may have helped some.
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Cecilthedarkknight_234



Joined: 02 Apr 2011
Posts: 3530
Location: Louisville, KY

PostPosted: Fri Oct 05, 2012 10:56 pm Reply with quote
pulled or not the ripped stream is up for grabs on various torrent sites... I'll be blunt from some one that just watched it. Wait for the blurays or atx un-cut broadcast. I've seen some light beams in my days but damn this was over the top.
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TheAncientOne



Joined: 06 Oct 2010
Posts: 990

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:54 am Reply with quote
dragonrider_cody wrote:

Yes, and I hope you get fired for posting such idiotic comments. Rai only does what the higher ups tell him. He is not in charge of the company or the scheduling. He did what he was instructed to do. There is no reason to wish someone to lose their job after they did exactly what they were instructed to do. It's a an episode of anime series, not a life and death situation. Get over yourself.

If you use the excuse, "I only did what you told me" on your job after someone calls to your attention a problem with doing so, expect at the very least a substantial butt chewing in the foreseeable future in your occupation. Most employers expect employees to use a modicum of judgement, and at least notify someone of higher authority if there appears to be a problem they overlooked.


Let's use an example from when I was young, and worked as an assistant manager for a theater:

My manager was responsible for submitting the newspaper ads for the chain's theaters in the city. He is going on vacation and wants me to layout the ads. He leaves me with a listing of what each theater will be showing and the showtimes. While talking to an employee, as we are closing, and shortly before I will be working on the ad that has to be submitted by early morning, I happen to mention the showtimes of a specific title to him of a movie he is interested in seeing. The employee (who is new, and I don't really know) mentions that the movie had been reported as being 2 hours and 10 minutes long, but the show times are only two hours and 10 minutes apart (giving no time to clear the theater and the new audience to be seated).

Per how you think one should operate, I should respond, "Well, that is what the manager listed, so we're good".

Here, I didn't cause the problem, and I certainly couldn't have been faulted if I submitted the ad with those times if a potential problem hadn't been called to my attention.

Since the employee is new, and I don't know them that well, I really don't know whether they are an avid movie buff that knows the running time of every recent movie release, or just going by something he heard. It certainly wouldn't be justified for me to wake up my regional manager over it at this point. It does, however, make sense for me to check for myself if what the employee said is true, and then take further action based on that.

I check the running time, and it appears the employee was correct. Being in the business, I know this is going to cause problems, so at this point, simply putting in the ad with the listed show times would be negligent on my part. My employer expects me to use my brain, not simply act as a drone.
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Shiroi Hane
Encyclopedia Editor


Joined: 25 Oct 2003
Posts: 6100
Location: Wales

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 6:27 am Reply with quote
agila61 wrote:
TheAncientOne wrote:
Takuku wrote:
@TheAncientOne
If it's TAN's fault - what I don't get is why should it have an effect for us in the UK which is leading me to think that it's possibly an issue at Japan's end or if it can be done, the simuclast is a sub-license.

I suspect that AoD's license is a sub-license from Sentai, much like Crunchyroll's licenses. It would be a simple matter for Sentai to add on a UK license when negotiating, and then re-license that to AoD, similar to the way they license additional regions to re-license to CR along with the U.S. and Canada.

Especially since Sentai had already been getting streaming rights for US, Canada, UK, Ireland, South Africa Australia and New Zealand for streaming sublicenses to Crunchyroll. Its a lot easier to get a specific clause if the licensor has previously signed a contract with the same clause.

Andrew has said they aren't working with Sentai on this (although there's more than one way to interpret that) but they probably are at least relying on Sentai for the assets - Un-go for example not only used Sentai's subtitle script but initially had the TAN subs burned in (with AoDs player not allowing for positioning of subs and with all the on-screen character intros in that show this was actually a good thing).
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dragonrider_cody



Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Posts: 1827

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 6:47 am Reply with quote
TheAncientOne wrote:
dragonrider_cody wrote:

Yes, and I hope you get fired for posting such idiotic comments. Rai only does what the higher ups tell him. He is not in charge of the company or the scheduling. He did what he was instructed to do. There is no reason to wish someone to lose their job after they did exactly what they were instructed to do. It's a an episode of anime series, not a life and death situation. Get over yourself.

If you use the excuse, "I only did what you told me" on your job after someone calls to your attention a problem with doing so, expect at the very least a substantial butt chewing in the foreseeable future in your occupation. Most employers expect employees to use a modicum of judgement, and at least notify someone of higher authority if there appears to be a problem they overlooked.


Let's use an example from when I was young, and worked as an assistant manager for a theater:

My manager was responsible for submitting the newspaper ads for the chain's theaters in the city. He is going on vacation and wants me to layout the ads. He leaves me with a listing of what each theater will be showing and the showtimes. While talking to an employee, as we are closing, and shortly before I will be working on the ad that has to be submitted by early morning, I happen to mention the showtimes of a specific title to him of a movie he is interested in seeing. The employee (who is new, and I don't really know) mentions that the movie had been reported as being 2 hours and 10 minutes long, but the show times are only two hours and 10 minutes apart (giving no time to clear the theater and the new audience to be seated).

Per how you think one should operate, I should respond, "Well, that is what the manager listed, so we're good".

Here, I didn't cause the problem, and I certainly couldn't have been faulted if I submitted the ad with those times if a potential problem hadn't been called to my attention.

Since the employee is new, and I don't know them that well, I really don't know whether they are an avid movie buff that knows the running time of every recent movie release, or just going by something he heard. It certainly wouldn't be justified for me to wake up my regional manager over it at this point. It does, however, make sense for me to check for myself if what the employee said is true, and then take further action based on that.

I check the running time, and it appears the employee was correct. Being in the business, I know this is going to cause problems, so at this point, simply putting in the ad with the listed show times would be negligent on my part. My employer expects me to use my brain, not simply act as a drone.


That may be true, but that doesn't excuse the childish name calling that dtm resorted to. Someone should be able to make a point or express frustration without resorting to the antics of an 8 year old.

I was simply pointing out that we don't know with 100% certainty that he didn't confirm it with his bosses. If this was the info TAN was given, the bosses would have likely told him to go ahead and upload the episode. It's an awfully big assumption that he placed this online without prior approval or checking when concerns were brought up. As has been pointed out many, many times, we don't know where the miscommunication occured and we likely never will. There is no reason to resort to name calling and insults.

I'm also willing to bet a lot of money that Rai, or whoever actually uploaded the episode still got an earfull.
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TnKtRk



Joined: 17 Mar 2011
Posts: 96

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 7:44 am Reply with quote
Oh, this arguement again...

Yeah, just like it's JC Staff's fault, not Key, when Little Busters turns out to be horrible...

Those were good times...good times indeed.
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EleutheroMaster



Joined: 15 Aug 2011
Posts: 44

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 10:40 am Reply with quote
The episode was CENSORED on Japanese TV!

Good move, Anime Network!
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toyNN



Joined: 18 Jun 2010
Posts: 231
Location: Seattle, WA

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 12:12 pm Reply with quote
So is anime streaming simulcast early airing screw-ups on a 2-year cycle?

Its clearly a bit of a big deal to the Japanese licensors and this one seems very avoidable....though every time I try to get up at 3am to watch some NicoNico Live show I'm always missing it by a day too.
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TheAncientOne



Joined: 06 Oct 2010
Posts: 990

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:27 pm Reply with quote
dragonrider_cody wrote:

I was simply pointing out that we don't know with 100% certainty that he didn't confirm it with his bosses. If this was the info TAN was given, the bosses would have likely told him to go ahead and upload the episode. It's an awfully big assumption that he placed this online without prior approval or checking when concerns were brought up.

Once again, here was his reply to me:
Quote:
Nah, the hours are right, are you adjusting for Japan Time?

Our simulcast will go out as planned, as we have had our release dates and hours approved by the licensors. Thanks.

His reply to me makes it clear he didn't even bother to check the time it aired in Japan. He also was fully confident in the release date and hour, so why would he re-confirm that if he didn't bother confirming the time it aired in Japan?

As I illustrated with my example, even if he was staring at a contract that stated in black and white that the episodes could be posted at 9 PM EDT on Thursdays, beginning October 4, it would be irresponsible not to take action if he had bothered to check and confirm that the premiere in Japan was 15 hours later.

Let's give him full credit and say that he checked the link to the Tokyo MX schedule in the message The Coffee God posted, confirmed the both of us were indeed correct, and contacted someone higher up the chain of command and informed them of this. If they then said, "No, go ahead as planned", they were even more negligent than he, as those with greater authority have a greater responsibility to act prudently.

Do I believe that is the way things played out? Not for a minute.

Over on TAN, you state, "It really doesn't matter who's fault it was at this point". Indeed, it does matter. The person at fault should be educated on how to more properly handle such situations, and/or policies put in place to prevent a re-occurrence.
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dragonrider_cody



Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Posts: 1827

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 2:58 pm Reply with quote
TheAncientOne wrote:
dragonrider_cody wrote:

I was simply pointing out that we don't know with 100% certainty that he didn't confirm it with his bosses. If this was the info TAN was given, the bosses would have likely told him to go ahead and upload the episode. It's an awfully big assumption that he placed this online without prior approval or checking when concerns were brought up.

Once again, here was his reply to me:
Quote:
Nah, the hours are right, are you adjusting for Japan Time?

Our simulcast will go out as planned, as we have had our release dates and hours approved by the licensors. Thanks.

His reply to me makes it clear he didn't even bother to check the time it aired in Japan. He also was fully confident in the release date and hour, so why would he re-confirm that if he didn't bother confirming the time it aired in Japan?

As I illustrated with my example, even if he was staring at a contract that stated in black and white that the episodes could be posted at 9 PM EDT on Thursdays, beginning October 4, it would be irresponsible not to take action if he had bothered to check and confirm that the premiere in Japan was 15 hours later.

Let's give him full credit and say that he checked the link to the Tokyo MX schedule in the message The Coffee God posted, confirmed the both of us were indeed correct, and contacted someone higher up the chain of command and informed them of this. If they then said, "No, go ahead as planned", they were even more negligent than he, as those with greater authority have a greater responsibility to act prudently.

Do I believe that is the way things played out? Not for a minute.

Over on TAN, you state, "It really doesn't matter who's fault it was at this point". Indeed, it does matter. The person at fault should be educated on how to more properly handle such situations, and/or policies put in place to prevent a re-occurrence.


You sort of missed the point entirely. Also, what you believe and what I believe is irrelevant. Neither of us were present at the TAN offices to say one way or the other. Given the time of day, it's quite likely that no one was there and the episode was uploaded remotely.

The way they handled the situation will be changed. Rai, or whoever uploaded it, likely got their ass reamed and whoever gave the okay was also likely chewed out as well. But regardless, that does nothing for the current situation.

Other than saying "He should have checked with is bosses", which you have no proof that he didn't, you have provided no ways in which the situation could have been handled better. Even if he had checked the Japanese schedule and seen that their simulcast was ahead of the Japanese airing, but was still told to do so, would the situation have played out any differently? No, it wouldn't have. We don't know that a higher up would have told him not to upload the episode. Remember, TAN doesn't license their shows directly from Japan. They license them from Sentai, Aesir, Nozomi, and whoever else they sometimes show series from.

Tell me again how this makes it okay to call names?
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agila61



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 3199
Location: NE Ohio

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 3:37 pm Reply with quote
dragonrider_cody wrote:
I honestly doubt TBS would intentionally sabotage the vast majority of their library being distributed in the US right now over one simulcast. Sabotaging your US profits seems like a massive overreaction to one episode being broadcast ahead of time. ...

That's what I said, isn't it? That they are are about to do anything that will affect home video distribution, nor indeed likely to do anything that will affect TAN's cable Anime on Demand channel.

If its just a demonstration of seriousness on the streaming, that would be where there can't be any significant direct impact on TBS's US profits.
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dragonrider_cody



Joined: 14 Jun 2008
Posts: 1827

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 3:43 pm Reply with quote
agila61 wrote:
dragonrider_cody wrote:
I honestly doubt TBS would intentionally sabotage the vast majority of their library being distributed in the US right now over one simulcast. Sabotaging your US profits seems like a massive overreaction to one episode being broadcast ahead of time. ...

That's what I said, isn't it? That they are are about to do anything that will affect home video distribution, nor indeed likely to do anything that will affect TAN's cable Anime on Demand channel.

If its just a demonstration of seriousness on the streaming, that would be where there can't be any significant direct impact on TBS's US profits.


Exactly. That's why I agreed with you. Wink
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 13017
Location: NZL

PostPosted: Sat Oct 06, 2012 3:48 pm Reply with quote
dragonrider_cody wrote:
Tell me again how this makes it okay to call names?


I called Rai a douchebag because in my opinion that's how he acted when he arrogantly shot down a concerned user who was just trying to help him.

Hell's bells, given how much of a fuss you are kicking up about this, you're making it sound like I implied that his mother was not married to his father, or that he eats foetuses coated with faeces for breakfast. But I only called him a douchebag, with quite a bit of justification I might add (given his reply to TheAncientOne). That hardly warrants you getting your knickers in a twist. You don't even know Rai, so why are you so obsessed with defending him?
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