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Psycho-Pass (TV) (all seasons).


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Harleyquin



Joined: 29 May 2014
Posts: 2815
PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 6:33 pm Reply with quote
Gina Szanboti wrote:
Thank you! It just looked like a packet to me, since the camera had me focused on his face, like I should recognize who he was. I had no idea what I was supposed to take away from that scene, and no one would tell me. Very Happy

As for the bodies, from a narrative standpoint, if it's not important, it just seems odd to make the viewer come up with a reason for the discrepancy, instead of just making it 185. spoiler[With that many parts in one body, you really wouldn't need much tissue from each, so unless it was vaporized, it seems like something could have been salvaged.]


Another more far-fetched way of explaining the discrepancy in numbers is for the missing 2 persons being the pilot and co-pilot. In a setting where humans can drive cars and fall asleep without causing an accident due to auto-pilot controls, I would not be surprised if the pilot and co-pilot were drones and counted in the passenger manifest but obviously not showing up in the casualty count.

The recently aired episode showed a few pictures regarding spoiler[which parts of Kamui's head were grafts from the dead children. Given the physical state of air disaster victims and possible 95% burns to Kamui's body due to the fire after the plane crash, it's possible to stretch the imagination a bit to figure out why so many bodies were eventually respliced into Kamui's body. ]
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Gina Szanboti



Joined: 03 Aug 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 7:49 pm Reply with quote
No, Karanomori explicitly says "185 children along with accompanying adults, crew members and the pilots. A total of 202 people." And if she was counting Kamui among the dead at that point, she should have said 205, not 204. Her mistake, if it was a mistake, came before she noticed he survived. If she misspoke because she just then noticed he survived, then she should have been startled whether it's 204 or 202. But her voice is quite calm while she says the number, there's half a beat of silence, like she's still reading, then she says, "Wait! There was one survivor!" No matter how I look at it, it doesn't make sense to me. It's still not even clear to me whether there were 185 or 186 children on board.

Drone pilots do make sense, but they wouldn't have names on a crew manifest. If they were listed in any way it would be by ID number.

Anyway, I guess we'll find out whether it's just sloppy story telling or significant. Smile
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Harleyquin



Joined: 29 May 2014
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PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 7:55 pm Reply with quote
Gina Szanboti wrote:
No, Karanomori explicitly says "185 children along with accompanying adults, crew members and the pilots. A total of 202 people." And if she was counting Kamui among the dead at that point, she should have said 205, not 204. Her mistake, if it was a mistake, came before she noticed he survived. If she misspoke because she just then noticed he survived, then she should have been startled whether it's 204 or 202. But her voice is quite calm while she says the number, there's half a beat of silence, like she's still reading, then she says, "Wait! There was one survivor!" No matter how I look at it, it doesn't make sense to me. It's still not even clear to me whether there were 185 or 186 children on board.

Drone pilots do make sense, but they wouldn't have names on a crew manifest. If they were listed in any way it would be by ID number.

Anyway, I guess we'll find out whether it's just sloppy story telling or significant. Smile


I'm almost certain it's 185 children, since it's irrelevant if spoiler[184 or 185 of the dead children's bodies were used as splicing material when Kamui just wants the identities for their holograms. It's 185 holograms, so I'm going for 185 primary school victims, Kamui doesn't need a holo-avatar in his own image to stand out in society. ]

Doesn't matter if they're not names on a crew manifest, drone pilots are still counted in the 205 passengers and crew. I couldn't read any of the newspaper report that was put up briefly since the font was much too small, so it's either a genuine slip or drone pilots are listed as "casualties" during a plan crash.
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Gina Szanboti



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PostPosted: Sat Nov 29, 2014 9:07 pm Reply with quote
That would be like listing the autopilot as a crew member. This isn't Airplane!. oO
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Harleyquin



Joined: 29 May 2014
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 6:08 am Reply with quote
Gina Szanboti wrote:
That would be like listing the autopilot as a crew member. This isn't Airplane!. oO


Not quite. This week's episode talked about one of the patents for the Toogane conglomerate, namely the spoiler[ability to install a human brain into a drone. Piloting an aircraft is much more complex than driving a car, so in the same way Tsunemori and Shimotsuki can override their cruise control in cars drone pilots can manually control aircraft in the event of adverse weather and/or exceptional circumstances requiring manual control of the aircraft.

This is all conjecture of course. But such a scenario would require the pilot and co-pilot to be listed since the human brain inside the drone would still count as a casualty. ]
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Gina Szanboti



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 6:53 am Reply with quote
If the brains are still functional to the point of having personalities, they're not drones, they're full cyborgs, and would be listed as people/casualties. If they're just organic processing units, they're not people and wouldn't be counted as such, either as crew or casualties. Either way, before you said they would appear on the crew manifest but not as casualties, now you're saying they'd count as casualties. Either they'd be on both lists or neither. You can't have it both ways.
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Harleyquin



Joined: 29 May 2014
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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:49 am Reply with quote
Gina Szanboti wrote:
If the brains are still functional to the point of having personalities, they're not drones, they're full cyborgs, and would be listed as people/casualties. If they're just organic processing units, they're not people and wouldn't be counted as such, either as crew or casualties. Either way, before you said they would appear on the crew manifest but not as casualties, now you're saying they'd count as casualties. Either they'd be on both lists or neither. You can't have it both ways.


Perhaps, but it's still speculation. Neither you nor I have any more information to go on other than what Karanomori said. I don't know why you're not claiming organic processing units as members of crew, since no such thing exists in the real world at present and it's completely open to interpretation as to how they would be classified.

I read recently about the 1970s round-the-world flights of atomic clocks, they occupied a seat next to their human minder and apparently counted in the passenger manifest. Maybe the same concept for pilot and co-pilot, counted as part of the 205 passengers and crew but not counted as casualties if they are pure drones or considered as organic processing units but "not alive" and taken off the casualty list.

spoiler[ The patent information on human brains into drones is in the public domain since Shimotsuki could access it at the government archive without special authorisation over and above that afforded by her job description, no other details provided but it's technology that is known in the world setting so no reason why it hasn't been applied in other fields. As to how these things are classified is impossible to discuss aside from personal speculation. ]

I'm still leaning towards a mistake in the details, but if it was intended by the producers this would be what I would argue as a defence, purely as a thought exercise.
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Gina Szanboti



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 5:51 pm Reply with quote
Harleyquin wrote:
I don't know why you're not claiming organic processing units as members of crew, since no such thing exists in the real world at present and it's completely open to interpretation as to how they would be classified.

Actually something of a precursor does exist (turn off the stupid creepy music), and something very similar is what I imagine they mean when they say they're putting brains in drones (note how in layman's terms and headlines it's talked about as a rat brain rather than merely a collection of cultured neurons that are still capable of learning). Again, if they're putting fully functional complete brains (like in Sybil's jars) into drones, it's no different than a full cyborg and what a hell it would be to be trapped like a slave in a drone like that. It makes more sense that they're talking about an advanced use of human brain neurons rather than self-aware whole brains, and the anime just didn't have time or interest to go deeply enough into it to elaborate.

As for the atomic clocks, that sounds to me like a publicity thing to pique the public's interest more than SOP (unless for some reason the FAA requires, say, a dog or a priceless cello with its own purchased seat be listed as a passenger - are large people who are required to buy two seats listed twice on the manifest?).
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Harleyquin



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 6:10 pm Reply with quote
Gina Szanboti wrote:

Actually something of a precursor does exist (turn off the stupid creepy music), and something very similar is what I imagine they mean when they say they're putting brains in drones (note how in layman's terms and headlines it's talked about as a rat brain rather than merely a collection of cultured neurons that are still capable of learning). Again, if they're putting fully functional complete brains (like in Sybil's jars) into drones, it's no different than a full cyborg and what a hell it would be to be trapped like a slave in a drone like that. It makes more sense that they're talking about an advanced use of human brain neurons rather than self-aware whole brains, and the anime just didn't have time or interest to go deeply enough into it to elaborate.

As for the atomic clocks, that sounds to me like a publicity thing to pique the public's interest more than SOP (unless for some reason the FAA requires, say, a dog or a priceless cello with its own purchased seat be listed as a passenger - are large people who are required to buy two seats listed twice on the manifest?).


Interesting video, but rat brain in jar controlling small wheeled robot is like night and day in scale with what they're trying to convey in the series.

Brains in jars isn't really the focus of the franchise methinks, but there have been interviews and the like with the series creators where world exposition and setting are elaborated upon with more detail than was possible in the animated work.

As to why brains might be put into drones (with regards to the Toogane patent), it's probably desirable provided the process can be reversed. Also, terminally ill patients whose bodies are killing them might choose the option to take out the still healthy and functioning brain to transplant it to a cyborg body to prolong their lifespans. The concept isn't new, both Ghost in the Shell and the Starcraft game franchise have already explored this idea.

The atomic clock being listed in a manifest and flying first class around the world was for a scientific experiment. Either way, if you don't include the machine in the passenger manifest and the plane goes down, the proprietors might have trouble with the insurance compensation. Perhaps a similar idea if it were drone (not human brain) pilots and each one had serial numbers to allow the insurance and commercial airliner companies to settle the necessary payments.

When all is said and done, it's still conjecture. I'm just assuming what could be the reason if the numbers were deliberately made to not tally rather than it being a simple mistake on the part of the voice actress or on the part of the series writers.
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Gina Szanboti



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 6:34 pm Reply with quote
Harleyquin wrote:
Interesting video, but rat brain in jar controlling small wheeled robot is like night and day in scale with what they're trying to convey in the series.

Hence the "something of a precursor." The series isn't set in the near future but several decades from now. I don't expect this line of experimentation to be standing still.

Harleyquin wrote:
As to why brains might be put into drones (with regards to the Toogane patent), it's probably desirable provided the process can be reversed. Also, terminally ill patients whose bodies are killing them might choose the option to take out the still healthy and functioning brain to transplant it to a cyborg body to prolong their lifespans. The concept isn't new, both Ghost in the Shell and the Starcraft game franchise have already explored this idea.

The hunter in the first season had a full prosthetic body, didn't he? I think we're still at odds over the concepts of a drone vs a cyborg. There's a huge difference between living as an autonomous cyborg (a la the Major or even the Texan in a box) and becoming a non-autonomous drone. Drones by definition are controlled by outside commands or are not under human control (which would exclude human brain-controlled cyborgs). Would you want to live sentiently as one of those police drones?
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Harleyquin



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PostPosted: Sun Nov 30, 2014 7:12 pm Reply with quote
Senguuji retained both his brain and his nervous system. In addition there's considerable debate in the first season over the merits of giving up an organic body, but one of the biggest draws was an increased lifespan. Senguuji claimed in his interview that the human brain could stay active for as long as 150 years which was why he chose to mechanise most of his body in the hope that technology would catch up and allow him to change his organic brain to a cybernetic one a la Ghost in the Shell.

The series setting hasn't quite perfected the technology for transferring a human brain into another entirely organic body, since spoiler[the bureau chief and other top brass in the government organisation are composed of perfect organic bodies but with cybernetic processing cores for brains. ]

If one feared death enough to opt for living as a drone in the hopes of buying time to get an improvement, then there's no reason why someone wouldn't make the decision. I'm unclear as to the applications of the spoiler[Toogane patent for transferring human brains into drones, but I don't expect it to be elaborated upon now that the season is drawing to a close. ]
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Stark700



Joined: 30 Jan 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 12:58 pm Reply with quote
Season 2, episode 9:

spoiler[Kamui really knows how to throw a party huh? I mean, just at what's serving for dinner.] Oh wait.

The episode was alright and sticks with the continued spoiler[conflict with Kamui as someone else tries to stall Akane. Also, not really liking Togane's mother. Also, I suppose the OP song of the series had a little spoiler involving Akane. Good to see more revealed from this episdoe.]
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ookamigirl



Joined: 15 Jul 2012
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PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 2:14 pm Reply with quote
spoiler[Mommy Kasei & son Togane are completely insane].
Akane made a good point of a few things.
I can't quite figure out spoiler[Shimotsuki] yet.
She might end up as collateral along the way.
spoiler[Kamui] dished out some justice this time..
I liked the look in Akane's eyes.
Just knewspoiler[ her grams] would end up in the middle of things.
Why else would they introduce that character now?
Good episode.
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Harleyquin



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PostPosted: Thu Dec 04, 2014 5:57 pm Reply with quote
spoiler[ I didn't expect Shimotsuki to react like that having heard the truth about the system, but the director and Toogane might well have been right in their assessment of her as a "model citizen" and the typical reaction elicited from the denouement. ]

spoiler[ The talk about a rogue brain in the form of Toogane's mother now contradicted by Tsunemori and Saiga's very long theory on the paradox of the omnipotent being. Since Kamui embodies the rock which Saiga and Tsunemori talked about, a 3rd party is necessary to deal with Kamui and keep society from being rocked to its foundations. We now know that the sub-plot hatched by Toogane and the system is to get Tsunemori to finish the job for them, in so doing making Tsunemori #6 in Toogane's list of victims. ]

spoiler[The talk about Toogane's pass being the highest recorded in history is now shown to be a fabrication, apparently the genetic modifications done to him before birth allowed him to exhibit the same traits as Makishima who was born with the ability naturally. I wonder what Shimotsuki's criminal coefficient and hue colour look like now that she's realised the consequences of her actions. ]

spoiler[ Kamui and his classmate also operate on their own moral scales it seems. Having used the illegal immigrants to his advantage, Kamui seems to see fit that their corruption under the new identities given to them merits a detailed and customised execution. For someone who claims to want to set society free by clearing its hue colours, he's not much different from the System itself in playing God. ]

spoiler[Up to this point, the Bureau have been at least two steps behind Kamui and his grand plan. Even with this latest development, the machinations of the system and Toogane are conspiring to stack the odds against Tsunemori and her team to ensure they never catch up with him. After the stress Tsunemori has been through and the further aggravation that is sure to come next week, it's amazing she's still around and working for the Bureau in the upcoming movie alongside Shimotsuki. ]

I think someone asked why Grandma's ear was given particular significance in an earlier episode, spoiler[this episode reveals exactly why. ]
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Gina Szanboti



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PostPosted: Fri Dec 05, 2014 3:59 am Reply with quote
Gina Szanboti wrote:
Grandma was creeping me the hell out (was that little earpost sparkle at the end significant?).

Yes, yes it was.
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