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NEWS: Aniplex USA Adds Sword Art Online, Blast of Tempest, Magi Anime


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Vata Raven



Joined: 21 May 2007
Posts: 706
Location: TN

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 9:58 pm Reply with quote
manicli wrote:
Because in the real world you have to justify what you say. So I thought you'd be mature enough to understand that. Do you think that if you go against someone at work without explaining your reason, its going to fly? Ofcourse not, you'll probably be looked down upon. I always have to justify what I say every week when I write a lab report(s). Heck I even have to justify myself when doing regular assignments.

Because it's damn anime, not damn rocket science. If someone don't like something, they shouldn't honestly have to go into huge ass conversation why they don't like something. it should be left at, "I don't like," plain and simple, it's not as complex as people make it out to be. I HATE romance animes and I'll leave it that, I'm not goign to go into in-depth conversation about something I hate. PMMM sucks, I'll leave it that, it shouldn't matter why I think so, in fact, I listed off reason why I don't like it...but that didn't seem to please some bitchy anime fans. And you did a huge fail in comparing anime to a lab test...they're nothing alike. THIS IS ANIME, NOT SCIENCE. I don't know why it should even matter why I hate a show, that won't effect you and it won't change your life even if I did explain why I hated the shows I do. I hate mecha, shojo anime with female leads, male harem, ecchi, male fan service,
romance, gag dubs, girl's with guns series, real life men...and my list goes on. And you know what, it shouldn't matter why I hate them, if fact, people cna't say why they hate something. I hate romance, couldn't tell you why, all the romance kills me and I don't like it, plain and simple.

Why must people make things more complained then they must? That why you're being, a pain in the ass because you're not getting the answer that pleases you.
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ShanaFan852



Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 558
Location: Minnesota, USA

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:08 pm Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:
ShanaFan852 wrote:
I'm sorry, but I can't help but laugh at this, even though I find Madoka very good (It got an 8/10 from me).

There is no such thing as objectively good, and objectively bad...
Well, you're wrong, and that's all there is to it.
You didn't even bother explaining one bit how I'm wrong, how nice... Are we in grade-school as this sounds like something a grade-schooler would say.

So how am I wrong? Prove to me there is such a thing as objectively good and bad when it comes to shows, and do it with no bias.

The moment bias comes into play, your argument will be invalid.
Quote:
ShanaFan852 wrote:
And really how is it objectively good? I've seen people like the guy who wrote this review (Actually an in-depth analysis that basically dissected the entire show) argue it's objectively bad a bit.
http://anidb.net/​perl-​bin/​animedb.​pl?​show=​animeatt&​aid=​8069&​attid=​7858
This again. I'm really sick and tired of people using that moron's "review" (read: rant) as 'proof' that the show isn't all that good.
It's not really proof (After all, the quality of shows are subjective, not objective.), it just shows one perspective, the negative perspective.

Personally I feel he's being too critical, and out there, but he did bring up some valid points, like how on earth doesspoiler[Madoka end up having the most potential for a magical girl? Homura went through timeloop after timeloop to save her very best friend, and just from doing that, Madoka ended up with that much potential.

She ended up being the focus of each timeline (Though how does one become the center of the universe? Just from the only person in the universe who can time travel trying to save her from suffering every time? This is one area where I feel the show falters, plausibility.), and Homura's suffering latched onto Madoka (How does that work, especially when we get those resets after each timeloop?).

She didn't have to really do anything to get that potential, Homura did it all for her.]
Another review (This one being positive) I've read touched on the issue also.spoiler["The second flaw is the explanation given as to why Kaname Madoka has more potential than anyone else, which again makes a major, yet highly debatable assumption. The simple fact is that if one follows the idea to its rather logical conclusion, the most powerful Puella Magi should actually be Akemi Homura. It's a far more conceptual plot hole, but given the usage of the many worlds theory, especially at the end, it quickly becomes a major issue that could destroy the foundation of the story."]
http://www.anime-planet.com/​users/​Archaeon/​reviews/​4674

The thing is, it's all about point of view. The quality of shows are subjective. You can be objective about certain things like "X character is a boy.", "X did X in episode X.", but other things like how good the story is, is opinion, which is due to the next reason...

There is no set in stone standard of what good and bad is (Really where is that all so glorious gold tablet with the set standards of good and bad everyone must follow?). For some, it's merely enjoyment. If they enjoyed it, it's good, and if they didn't, it's bad.

Others will look at the show looking for things like catharsis, a solid resolution, pacing, character development, backstory, plausibility, and more, and if it lacks that, it's awful.

Even with that there is no correct angle to analyze a show as everyone views things differently (Take the ANN preview guides, no two reviewers viewed the same show the same way). Some for example may see Light in Death Note develop as a character, and others may see he hasn't changed at all, which points back to point of view, and what one personally believes is good and bad writing.
Fencedude5609 wrote:
Yeah, you realize that just because someone bloviates for 3000 words does not mean their review is an "in depth analysis", right?
Yes, yes I do. However, I've read the whole thing before, and it does go into various aspects of the show, hardly anything is left untouched.
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Fencedude5609



Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 5085

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:13 pm Reply with quote
ShanaFan852 wrote:
Yes, yes I do. owever, I've read the whole thing before, and it does go into various aspects of the show, hardly anything is left untouched.


It helps when they clearly don't understand basic concepts the show explained, like that huge assed spoilered section up above, which was quite clearly explained.
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ShanaFan852



Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 558
Location: Minnesota, USA

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:15 pm Reply with quote
Vata Raven wrote:
I don't know why it should even matter why I hate a show
Because it's how humans engage in debates, and various discussions...

When someone says they hate something, the other person will want to know why. Humans have a long history with wanting to know. I mean why do we keep watching a show we like for example? We want to know what happens, that's one reason.

You really should have at the least said something like "I found the story bad." instead of doing what you were doing, which led to this mess.
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 12982
Location: NZL

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:21 pm Reply with quote
ShanaFan852 wrote:
You didn't even bother explaining one bit how I'm wrong, how nice... Are we in grade-school as this sounds like something a grade-schooler would say.


I'm smart enough to know that there's no point in trying to convince you. You first have to understand that there exists good writing and bad writing, and I'm sure as hell not going to be the poor sod who has to teach you the fundamentals.
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ShanaFan852



Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 558
Location: Minnesota, USA

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:32 pm Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:
ShanaFan852 wrote:
You didn't even bother explaining one bit how I'm wrong, how nice... Are we in grade-school as this sounds like something a grade-schooler would say.


I'm smart enough to know that there's no point in trying to convince you. You first have to understand that there exists good writing and bad writing, and I'm sure as hell not going to be the poor sod who has to teach you the fundamentals.
Yes, but the thing is, there is no set standard, and it's all different point of views. Everyone has different standards on what good and bad writing is.

But really, you have not bothered to explain to me one bit why Madoka is objectively good, how it's a fact shows are objectively good and objectively bad, while I have points floating in the air.

It seems to me like you don't want to admit that Madoka being great is an opinion, not a fact, that's the real reason you're not bothering. You're blinded by your love for the show.
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Fencedude5609



Joined: 09 Nov 2006
Posts: 5085

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:37 pm Reply with quote
ShanaFan852 wrote:

You're blinded by your love for the show.


While I'd say dtm's going a bit overboard, you have way too much fun throwing that idiotic rant around.
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 12982
Location: NZL

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:50 pm Reply with quote
ShanaFan852 wrote:
It seems to me like you don't want to admit that Madoka being great is an opinion, not a fact, that's the real reason you're not bothering. You're blinded by your love for the show.


The show isn't good because I like it, I like it because it is good.

And I'm not bothering to provide evidence because this thread isn't even about PMMM, nor do I have the patience to explain what the show did right to someone like you.

You attack me because you just don't want to admit that your belief that there is no objectivity is wrong.
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Draneor



Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 355

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 10:56 pm Reply with quote
Vata Raven wrote:
If someone don't like something, they shouldn't honestly have to go into huge ass conversation why they don't like something. it should be left at, "I don't like," plain and simple [...] PMMM sucks,

There's a difference between your first statement "I don't like something" and your second "[it sucks]." One is a personal reaction based on your taste--the other is a factual claim that could be debated.
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dragon695



Joined: 28 Nov 2008
Posts: 1103
Location: Clemson, SC

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:02 pm Reply with quote
BTW, it should be noted that Aniplex = Sony, just so you know why you are paying a premium Cool
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Hagaren Viper



Joined: 28 Apr 2011
Posts: 431

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:25 pm Reply with quote
Vata Raven wrote:
Why the bloody hell does it bloody matter if I go into bloody detail in why I hate something? Oh, that's right, because the fans can't expect that someone might hate a "great" show.


You make the argument of "I hate a show everyone thinks is great so why bother trying", but you're still here making an argument anyway. If you can take the time to keep coming to this thread and post, then there is honestly no reason you can't take the extra ten seconds to write "I don't like Madoka because the story makes no sense/the art is terrible/the characters are bland". I'm pretty sure thats all people are asking from you at this point, really.
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ShanaFan852



Joined: 01 Jul 2010
Posts: 558
Location: Minnesota, USA

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:26 pm Reply with quote
dtm42 wrote:
ShanaFan852 wrote:
It seems to me like you don't want to admit that Madoka being great is an opinion, not a fact, that's the real reason you're not bothering. You're blinded by your love for the show.


The show isn't good because I like it, I like it because it is good.

And I'm not bothering to provide evidence because this thread isn't even about PMMM, nor do I have the patience to explain what the show did right to someone like you.

You attack me because you just don't want to admit that your belief that there is no objectivity is wrong.
I'm aware you don't find the show good just because you like it, but that wasn't the point I was making. Your love for the show is one of the things that leads you to believe it's a fact that it's good, and anyone who argues otherwise (Ex: Vata Raven-though she never stated good reasons as to why she personally finds it bad) is wrong.

Also it's not a belief, rather it's a fact that objectivity truly doesn't exist when it's coming out of the mouth of a human. Humans can't be objective enough to prove a show is objectively good or not (You have to be like a machine, and really machines by humans can't be objective either). I went into why a few posts ago.
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 12982
Location: NZL

PostPosted: Sun Oct 14, 2012 11:39 pm Reply with quote
Objectivity exists outside humans. PMMM is not good because people say it is, it's good because it just is.

Anyway, this is the last post I'm going to write on this matter, as the whole discussion is off-topic anyway.
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Altacia



Joined: 11 Feb 2004
Posts: 283

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 12:06 am Reply with quote
It amazes me just how dramatically you guys argue over a stupid magical girl show.

Rolling Eyes
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luffypirate85



Joined: 06 Oct 2006
Posts: 2748

PostPosted: Mon Oct 15, 2012 3:47 am Reply with quote
Awesome thread has now turned into a Madoka Magica debate Sad isn't everyone tired of debating that show?

Sorry y'all but I'm out.
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