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Otakon 2009 - Fansubs and Industry panel


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PetrifiedJello



Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 3782

PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:12 am Reply with quote
bayoab wrote:
For those who don't have the bw, a mostly complete transcript is available.

Damn web 2.0 makes idiots out of people anymore. Thank goodness a few still remain who understand the importance of transcripting.

Thank you very much for this.

Now, on topic...

I'm quite amazed at the discussion points regarding the fonts within subtitling. But I'm terrified at the notion "We don't need [x] font anymore. We can do anything now" remarks made.

The problem is, most still can't get this simple concept correct even with limited font choices! Seriously, folks who do this, if the background is pale, you don't use yellow or white. It's common sense! Take an art class and learn about colors!

Subtitles suck anyway, and everything should just be dubbed already. Those with a problem with this solution can just learn Japanese.
Wink

I can't take subtitling anymore by either party. Neither respects what it takes to actively integrate text into a visual medium without understanding the viewer.

The "Here, take it or leave it" attitude is just too appalling to accept. Thus, I shall leave it.

The simplest solution is often the most overlooked. I guess this is expected when the "we have tools to which we can change everything and will do so because we can without asking if we should" attitude is now more important than the art to which it supports.

*flips 10 yen for another poster.

Not that it'll do any good. Clannad was ruined by the yellow font choice selected while the fan sub versions got it right.
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Essedus



Joined: 28 Jul 2009
Posts: 30

PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:26 am Reply with quote
After watching the video, I went and read the transcript, but the transcript seems to go on a little longer then the video. Is there a 7th part of the video that I missed?


Anyway, I don't really think they can do much with the current DVD technology for subtitles. They can change the color...and maybe make the font a little better, but it won't ever be better then say, .ass. I don't really know what a BluRay is capable in terms of subtitle styles. About karaoke...well...the translation of the song should be enough.

To the guy above me: I hope you were kidding about the "everything should be dubbed" thing, because it's not true. The only ones who should be dubbed are the one who could make back the money spent on the dub. If they license say.....Kodomo No Jikan (when pigs fly...spaceships) a dub would be stupid. D.Gray-man, however, should have a dub, because people will buy.
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getfresh



Joined: 03 Feb 2009
Posts: 10

PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:32 am Reply with quote
Yes, we kept nerding out for awhile during the questions section. The ANN video guy left, but yaoiboy from l-e did take video from the crowd I am told. So if you can find him you can watch the rest of the panel.

BTW, hihi Zalis =P
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hikaru004



Joined: 15 Mar 2004
Posts: 2303

PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 10:42 am Reply with quote
I don't care about font color as long as I can read it.

No one brought up ADVid notes. I thought it was a nice way to put the references in and amke it less obtrusive for others.
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HyugaHinata



Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 1863

PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:27 am Reply with quote
I must disagree with Part 4 - I'm a translator, and I never watch YouTube in the background while I translate. I'll take breaks quite often, but I'll never distract myself when translating. Razz
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Asrialys



Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Posts: 843

PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:36 am Reply with quote
hikaru004 wrote:
I don't care about font color as long as I can read it.

No one brought up ADVid notes. I thought it was a nice way to put the references in and amke it less obtrusive for others.

I have yet to watch my Pani Poni Dash DVDs (the only other series I know that has them), but ADV's notes for Excel Saga were quite obtrusive. Seemed almost intentional at some points.

I don't mind them at all. It's just that they get in the way sometimes.
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samuelp



Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 1536
Location: Tokyo, Japan

PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 11:40 am Reply with quote
HyugaHinata wrote:
I must disagree with Part 4 - I'm a translator, and I never watch YouTube in the background while I translate. I'll take breaks quite often, but I'll never distract myself when translating. Razz


Yeah, I don't translate with distractions, that's bad.

Although I do like to translate in places with white noise like coffee shops (preferably ones with comfy chairs).

Ever since i got one of those tiny netbooks they've really been great for getting out of my apartment.
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21stcenturydigitalboy



Joined: 20 Aug 2008
Posts: 103
Location: Virginia Beach, Virginia

PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:04 pm Reply with quote
Asrialys wrote:
hikaru004 wrote:
I don't care about font color as long as I can read it.

No one brought up ADVid notes. I thought it was a nice way to put the references in and amke it less obtrusive for others.

I have yet to watch my Pani Poni Dash DVDs (the only other series I know that has them), but ADV's notes for Excel Saga were quite obtrusive. Seemed almost intentional at some points.

I don't mind them at all. It's just that they get in the way sometimes.


The point he was making is that you don't have to have them on, so they don't have to obstruct. In PPD, if you actually have them on, you cannot see the video at all because so many of them are on the screen at any given time lol
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Lutheos



Joined: 28 Jul 2009
Posts: 2

PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 1:36 pm Reply with quote
One of the things i would like to know is why sometimes parts in a series are not released. For example Zeta Gundam has a english release and most people think that the series just end but the then go online to a place like ANN and find out there's a sequel that was never released in North America. So fans miss the entire season of Double Zeta which is the continuation of the story, unless they can find and watch fansubs for it or can find and buy subbed dvd's.
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vashfanatic



Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 3309
Location: Back stateside

PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 2:29 pm Reply with quote
Lutheos wrote:
One of the things i would like to know is why sometimes parts in a series are not released. For example Zeta Gundam has a english release and most people think that the series just end but the then go online to a place like ANN and find out there's a sequel that was never released in North America. So fans miss the entire season of Double Zeta which is the continuation of the story, unless they can find and watch fansubs for it or can find and buy subbed dvd's.


I don't know about this particular anime, but my understanding is that each series has to be individually negotiated. To take an example, the first Hell Girl series has been licensed, but that doesn't mean Funimation automatically has the rights to the second series (THERE WAS NO THIRD SERIES!), they have to purchase it separately. It can take time to do this; and if there wasn't enough love for the first series, companies may not feel inclined to go through the effort.
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evilmoo



Joined: 11 Mar 2008
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 3:29 pm Reply with quote
I should have asked this question at the panel, but what I really want to know is:

When will the anime distributors let me buy a series license?

The idea here is that it doesn't matter whether I download a fansub, watch it streamed, get it off bittorrent, or copy my friend's DVDs, I've paid my money to them for the right to watch it in whatever format I see fit. If the license comes with DVDs, that's fine, but I don't want to get caught in the HDTV trap where I have DVDs that suddenly look like crap on my 1080p LCD TV, and then I get soaked a second time for a Blu Ray disc that may or may not be obsolete again in a few years. I want to be able to watch the fansubs to study how things are translated differently between professional translators and fansubbers.

So how much would this cost me?
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luisedgarf



Joined: 02 Oct 2004
Posts: 234
Location: Guadalajara, Mexico

PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 4:59 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
I want to do Spanish, okay. Is that South America or is that Spain? Turn's out that they are not on the same


About Spanish-language dubs, there are many accents used in dubs around our language:

1- Mexican Spanish (Dragon Ball series, Nadesico, Card Captor Sakura, Sailor Moon, Naruto, etc.) This the most popular and famous one, outside and inside Spanish-speaking countries wise

2- Venezuelan Spanish (Full Metal Alchemist, Tsukihime, Mushishi, Vandread and almost every single Gonzo anime series except Blue Submarine No. 6, Saikano and Kaleidostar) Second popular, since dubbing in Venezuela is more cheaper than Mexico, thanks to Hugo Chavez and political & union reasons.

3- Chilean Spanish (Zoids, Tenchi Muyo, Sonic X, Kinnukuman)

4- Argentinian Spanish (Lain, Spirited Away, Candy Candy, Queen Millenia) They used to have the worst voice acting in Spanish but now they are doing dubs as good as many Mexican ones.

5- Colombian Spanish (Kaleidostar, Rurouni Kenshin, Street Fighter 2 V, etc) Colombian voice acting is considered the laughing stock of Spanish voice acting industry since their acting is too way wooden and some times expressionless, to the grade to kill the perception or even kill a whole series in Spanish because of that (Kaleidostar were taked off from the air by CN in Latin America because of the AWFUL voice acting after it's first run, along with Love Hina, even that Love Hina was dubbed in Mexico by a group of Newbie voice actors)

5- European Spanish (used in Spain and used only in that country, with some exceptions)

6- U.S Spanish (Rayearth, Detective Conan, St. Tail) Dubbed by Spanish-speaking studios in the U.S., mainly in Los Angeles and Miami. The L.A. voice actors are mostly Mexicans or Mexican-Americans and from other countries with no voice-acting industries, like Central American countries, Peru, Bolivia, Uruguay, etc. and the Miami ones are mostly Cuban-Americans and a few Mexican-Americans
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Kimiko_0



Joined: 31 Aug 2008
Posts: 1577
Location: Leiden, NL, EU

PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 5:35 pm Reply with quote
It's good to read that both the Japanese makers and N-American distributors want to make anime available in Europe as well. I hope they don't get too hung up on translating into every language. Most Europeans are used to reading subtitles already, and have English as their second language, so just getting the English subbed version of an anime would be enough, at least for a start.
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samuelp



Joined: 25 Nov 2007
Posts: 1536
Location: Tokyo, Japan

PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:08 pm Reply with quote
evilmoo wrote:
I should have asked this question at the panel, but what I really want to know is:

When will the anime distributors let me buy a series license?

The idea here is that it doesn't matter whether I download a fansub, watch it streamed, get it off bittorrent, or copy my friend's DVDs, I've paid my money to them for the right to watch it in whatever format I see fit.


Uh, no, you haven't. You've paid for a physical copy of a single disc that you can play for you yourself on a licensed, region 1 DVD player within the boundaries of the territory it was purchased in.

That's the way licensing works currently: Japanese companies do not license rights in the way you want. E.G. Funimation cannot sell you rights to view a show in any way you'd like. Buying a DVD does not make downloading a raw or fansub any more or less illegal (at least in the US).

If you want this changed, you're fighting against all of hollywood and all of the entertainment industry, because they will never allow the type of thing you are suggesting.
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DomFortress



Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Posts: 751
Location: Richmond BC, Canada

PostPosted: Tue Jul 28, 2009 8:38 pm Reply with quote
evilmoo wrote:
I should have asked this question at the panel, but what I really want to know is:

When will the anime distributors let me buy a series license?

The idea here is that it doesn't matter whether I download a fansub, watch it streamed, get it off bittorrent, or copy my friend's DVDs, I've paid my money to them for the right to watch it in whatever format I see fit. If the license comes with DVDs, that's fine, but I don't want to get caught in the HDTV trap where I have DVDs that suddenly look like crap on my 1080p LCD TV, and then I get soaked a second time for a Blu Ray disc that may or may not be obsolete again in a few years. I want to be able to watch the fansubs to study how things are translated differently between professional translators and fansubbers.

So how much would this cost me?
I'll answer your questions in reverse order:
1)It'll cost you as much as making your own Japanese animation, when you'll be your own anime producer, distributor, and consumer. Because 2)if all you wanted to see is how post-production like translation works the hard way, then that's what you'll get. For 3)currently, all fansubs and industry streamed anime are early TV screening of pre-production works, with the final finished products on DVD/BD distribution only. Therefore 4)no matter what your online anime viewing method tends to be, you'll be watching the latest half-baked pre-production anime screenings, with half-baked post-production translation of English subs only(no dubs).

Just remember to pay the Japanese animators for their works, or not. The choice is yours.
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