Forum - View topicYaoi/yuri vs. other western media on gay/lesbian portrayals
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Dark Paladin X
 Posts: 268 |
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NOTE: Yes, there is some bias here, this is basically my opinion in regards to yaoi and yuri. You are entitled to express you own opinions here, but please do not troll or make threatening/insulting comments (mostly because we're dealing with a very sensitive topic here.
I think that yuri/yaoi portrays gays and lesbian in a more positive light than many western media and entertainment. I'm not saying that ALL yaoi and yuri are like that, as I do acknowledge that there are some that reinforce negative stereotypes. And besides, I really don't like how many western media portrayed gays/lesbians in a very negative way (i.e. South Park and Drawn Together, although I stopped watching those for a very long time). Besides, Japan happens to be more liberal than United States when it comes to dealing with gay/lesbian matters. Personally, I haven't read or watched any yaoi and yuri, but the closest thing I watched that had some homosexual themes (albeit not pornographic) was Kyo Kara Maoh! (spoiler[where the main character end up having a relationship with another character of the same gender by accident)]. I couldn't find any good yaoi and yuri manga or anime (that are not heavily pornographic) anyways. |
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Key
Moderator
 Posts: 18188 Location: Indianapolis, IN (formerly Mimiho Valley) |
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Although there are some very nicely sensitive portrayals of yaoi and yuri content out there in anime (Kashimashi, Blue Drop, and Simoun all come to mind in the latter case, and none of them are even close to pornographic), both are just as likely to be exploitation pieces intended only to titillate fans. It is true that anime generally treats homosexuality more casually than what American entertainment does, but overall the portrayal isn't that much more positive.
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littlegreenwolf
 Posts: 4796 Location: Seattle, WA |
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Revolutionary Girl Utena was one of the first anime I came across that I think fits what you're talking about. Though Utena's sexuality in the tv series comes into question, everyone else in the show doesn't seem to let a little thing like gender hold them back from a relationship, and it was presented in such a way I never thought it was exploiting homosexuality. Some of the characters are very promiscuous, but the show takes a serious look at relationships. Yes they're probably very #@%^ed up relationships, but still it's all done in such a way that it helps the show stand out from other anime, or just anything else in general.
It's a long journey ahead for gay/lesbian portrayals on Western tv, but I've been really happy with some of the attempts done by some shows so far, such as Ugly Betty and BBC's Torchwood. |
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Dark Paladin X
Posts: 268 |
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Well I could also say that Japan is more tolerant towards gays/lesbians since they don't really view this as a sin compared to United States.
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abunai
Old Regular
 Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
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Compared to part of the United States. Thankfully, not everyone in the U.S.A. thinks like that. - abunai |
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sailorsarah08
 Posts: 471 Location: Houston, Texas |
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think that both forms of media handle it the same. They each have there titles that do an accurate portrayals and show that do not.." I have seen shows, like Strawberry Panic! where every single girl was a lesbian. The show itself has a few raunchy moments and doesn't really handle the situation to delicatly. In what world would every girl in three fairly large Catholic schools be a lesbian? And the nuns seem to just turn there head at it.
When I think of a more realistic portrayal I think of something where the couple in question is not center stage, like Mai-Hime or Sailor Moon S. It's not a yuri love fest and it's innocent (in the case of Sailor Moon) and not everything is sunshine rainbow happy time. When I think of just blatant in your face yaoi I think Loveless which is not pornographic but still slightly unsettling. It's not the yaoi that bothers me its thespoiler[ 20 year old 12 year old relationship that may or may not exist. ] IMO that wasn't handled tastefully at all. I've got to hand it to you though for coming up with a pretty intresting thread. |
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egoist
 Posts: 7762 |
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I must say that I don't really mind watching homossexual relationships in animes but that's also a double-edged sword for me. Since I'm a straight male it feels kinda awkward to watch two men kissing each other and all. Even though I don't mind but it's not really like I really enjoy it, so normally it could ruin the show for me. Kyo Kara Maoh! was one case of ruined anime for me.
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Dark Paladin X
Posts: 268 |
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I'm glad to see that everyone is engaging in an honest discussion about this without flaming me or other people so far. I'm not sure, but according to some people, many fans of yaoi (featuring male homosexuals) are actually straight females and vice versa for yuri. I always thought yaoi and yuri was intended for gay and lesbian audiences. But still, anime and manga is a bit open-minded when it comes to homosexuality than other forms of western entertainment.
I'm seeing Japan as one of the two countries in Asia that might have same-sex unions legal standing in the future. Of course, since United States is more socially conservative than Japan, getting hands on yaoi/yuri anime or manga is quite hard. |
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abunai
Old Regular
Posts: 5463 Location: 露命 |
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I hate to be the one to continually quibble, but I doubt you could say that the US is more socially conservative than Japan. I think you mean sexually conservative, and even then, I am not sure I would agree with you. And yes, I believe the most significant audience for yaoi is straight females, and the most significant audience for yuri is straight males. I have no specific data to base this on, though, just hearsay and gut feeling. I'd love to see some hard data, if anyone has a reference. - abunai |
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Dark Paladin X
Posts: 268 |
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Well I could say that Japan is more sexually liberal than United States. Not to mention, not a lot of yaoi/yuri demonize homosexual in a very negative manner like South Park. But still, yaoi and yuri is really hard to come by in the U.S. due to the fact that many Americans still have some negative grudges towards gays and lesbians and unable to understand the Japanese perspective towards this issue. And like Key said, not all yaoi and yuri are highly pornographic in nature and often portray homosexuals more casually than western entertainment.
Last edited by Dark Paladin X on Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:12 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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egoist
Posts: 7762 |
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Is it me or is this conversation focusing more on countries discussion rather than anime? I mean, why would we want to talk about something society accepts or not. Even if a country is liberal or not to homossexuality that's not gonna change the fact each person would still think differently no matter what your government says and others think. So if the anime isn't that popular it doesn't mean it's because people aren't liberal but more like they just didn't like the show. Last edited by egoist on Thu Aug 20, 2009 5:16 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Dark Paladin X
Posts: 268 |
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Well I could say that the portrayals of gays and lesbians in anime and manga more or less based on the Japanese cultural perspective of this. Even then, that's my opinion and you don't have to agree with me. |
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sailorsarah08
Posts: 471 Location: Houston, Texas |
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South Park takes everything in a negative manner, no matter what it is. It's called a parody genre; it's simply what they do. That's like saying that because of Cartman making fun of Jewish people on South Park that everyone in America hates Jewish people. Because they don't. Not everyone in America thinks homosexuality is demonic.
But most anime shows with yaoi or yuri don't seem to frown upon it, in fact from what I've seen they see little to no resistance. The bigest problem I have seen in a "that is wrong" mindset is in Mai-Hime and it was just the one person after a fairly bad incedent. |
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Dark Paladin X
Posts: 268 |
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The idea of "right" or "wrong" isn't always the same for everyone. I know there are some people who think that yaoi/yuri is "wrong" due to claims of these genres promoting homosexuality. In fact, some anime and manga may have a message saying that "this is wrong" for either "productive reasons" or "moral/religious reasons" For example, when I watched Elfen Lied, it downplays physical and mental torture by showing the psychological impact of the characters and gives the viewers the idea that "torture is wrong."
Again, there is no definite "right" or "wrong." And should any yaoi/yuri gives "homosexuality is wrong" idea, it usually won't say it's "wrong" because of religious/moral reasons. And I agree with sailorsarah08, anime and manga doesn't downplay this issue a lot. |
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sailorsarah08
Posts: 471 Location: Houston, Texas |
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I mean the only time in anime I have ever seen a character tell another that it's not okay to be gay is in Mai-Hime but she had it coming. spoiler[ There are certain things that are not appropriate to do while someone is sleeping. Period. Be you male or female.] I am in no way saying that it is wrong but normally there is someone who will and I think it's kinda strange that most yaoi/yuri shows lack that person who brings everything back to reality, which is somewhat to be expected. No one wants their parade to be rained on.
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