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Hey, Answerman! - ANTI-PIRACY HYSTERIA


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Snomaster1



Joined: 31 Aug 2011
Posts: 1065

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 5:03 pm Reply with quote
Well,Mr. Answerman,I thought your Halloween motif was rather cute. I rather enjoyed it myself. I also appreciate your view on "Ghost in the Shell." I did a post on it myself. I've seen a lot of anime in which the portrayals of America have been a mixed bag. Some of them have been positive,some of them have been rather negative,and some have been so weird as to be unbelievable.
I've often thought that "Ghost" one of the more negative portrayals and I thought that's what hurt the show a lot. If it had a more neutral view of America,that would have a good show even better. Thanks for letting me vent. See you later.
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lostrune



Joined: 09 Jun 2012
Posts: 264

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 5:03 pm Reply with quote
"Anime VS Cartoons" and "Ethics of Anime Piracy".

I predict this thread will be entertaining. Laughing
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Divineking



Joined: 03 Jul 2010
Posts: 1086

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 5:05 pm Reply with quote
Ah the old "can anime be considered cartoons?" debate. Personally I also agree that when you go down to the most basic definition anime can be considered cartoons and frankly there's nothing really wrong with that. Frankly I think a lot of the dissociation for them has less to do with western anime fans hating actually hating "cartoons"(especially since more of them watch them then they'd care to admit) and more as was mentioned here that anime fans want anime to be considered of a higher art quality, and I do agree that as a medium anime is better than western animation but just as there's some really bad anime out there, there's also some really good western animation out there, and what really gets on my nerves is when some anime fans are deluded enough to the point where their convinced even the worst anime out there is better than every western toon in existance..

Also to the guy asking the anti piracy question: you SHOULD be worried about the western companies somewhat(unless you happen to live in Japan in which case I guess it wouldn't make a difference). They may not be perfect but at least they kinda care about us as compared to Japan who frankly couldn't care less at the end of the day and thus is unlikely to take the opinions of western fans into consideration on most things. I can't speak for everyone but I definently can't afford to import so I toss my hat in with the R1 guys and it does suck when they don't get support.
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RyanSaotome



Joined: 29 Mar 2011
Posts: 4210
Location: Towson, Maryland

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 5:07 pm Reply with quote
I'll never get why people get offended over people calling anime "Cartoons". Anime is just Japanese for cartoon anyway, and they call American cartoons anime as well. It could actually be argued that calling it "Anime" is just being a Japanophile, since its still a cartoon, you're just using a Japanese specific word.

Divineking wrote:
Also to the guy asking the anti piracy question: you SHOULD be worried about the western companies somewhat(unless you happen to live in Japan in which case I guess it wouldn't make a difference). They may not be perfect but at least they kinda care about us as compared to Japan who frankly couldn't care less at the end of the day and thus is unlikely to take the opinions of western fans into consideration on most things. I can't speak for everyone but I definently can't afford to import so I toss my hat in with the R1 guys and it does suck when they don't get support.


I'm not worried about the Western companies since I don't buy their bare bone releases. I feel if you really love a series, you should import it from Japan so your sale actually means something AND you get a far better package. If the Western companies died out, I would mean little to me except it might be nice to see less haters of recent anime on forums, due to less people getting interested in anime over here except for the ones who import or use fansubs. Most people who do these things generally tend to be the ones who like the current state of anime.


Last edited by RyanSaotome on Fri Oct 26, 2012 5:16 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Konopan



Joined: 06 Oct 2011
Posts: 307

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 5:15 pm Reply with quote
Probably going to spend Halloween rereading/catching up on Dorohedoro

RyanSaotome wrote:
I'll never get why people get offended over people calling anime "Cartoons". Anime is just Japanese for cartoon anyway, and they call American cartoons anime as well. It could actually be argued that calling it "Anime" is just being a Japanophile, since its still a cartoon, you're just using a Japanese specific word.

But anime is a french word.
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TitanXL



Joined: 08 Jun 2010
Posts: 4035

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 5:21 pm Reply with quote
RyanSaotome wrote:
I'll never get why people get offended over people calling anime "Cartoons". Anime is just Japanese for cartoon anyway, and they call American cartoons anime as well. It could actually be argued that calling it "Anime" is just being a Japanophile, since its still a cartoon, you're just using a Japanese specific word.


Not entirely true. For example, Japanese versions of American networks, like Cartoon Network, refers to their programs are "cartoons" not "anime". "Anime" may be used a general term for animation in Japan, but that stems more from apathy than acceptance. US television animation not really being big enough to establish any kind of 'otaku-esque' culture there. So there was never a sect of die-hard Dexter's Laboratory fans insisting that it's a "cartoon" and not an "anime". Unlike the west where anime has become a thing in various countries all over the world and developed into a culture of it's own, to the point that they even try making 'Amerianime' and 'OELmanga' and advertising it as such.

And it's basically because 'cartoon' has a negative connotation in the west. Cartoons are either for children or they consist of raunchy Family Guy/South Park style comedy. No real middle ground and not really considered valid entertainment by the average adult. It's the same way the mainstream uses the term 'graphic novel' instead of comic to describe things. Stuff like Walking Dead is often hailed as a "graphic novel" despite the fact it's not one; it's released in single floppy issues and are later bound together in a trade paper back. But if trying to promote a new comic-based movie or show to the average viewer, stuff generally isn't called a 'comic' because it invokes images of young pimple-faced teenagers huddled in a dark comic shop arguing over if Superman can beat Batman. "Graphic novel" sounds more refined, more respectable, and more professional, which is important if you want to convince the average person to give your thing a look. Similar to how anime is used.

Plus it's a good identifier. Someone can say they like anime and you know what they mean. If you just say cartoon, they might talk to you about Nickelodeon stuff you have zero interest in. It helps establish you specifically mean Japanese cartoons.
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EireformContinent



Joined: 30 May 2009
Posts: 977
Location: Łódź/Poland (The Promised Land)

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 5:23 pm Reply with quote
lostrune wrote:
"Anime VS Cartoons" and "Ethics of Anime Piracy".

I predict this thread will be entertaining. Laughing


The first 100 threads were fun, this will probably be next pointless discussion made up from the same arguments, written by the same people who apparently have them already written in order of increasing aggression, just waiting to copy and paste. The only question is if the mods start giving warns about 10th or 11th page.

But since Star Wars and Star Trek seem to make peace Anime vs Cartoons is one of the last fandom wars alive and kicking. Maybe it should be preserved as a part of the folklore?
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Reibooi



Joined: 03 Mar 2008
Posts: 383

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 5:29 pm Reply with quote
TitanXL hit the nail on the head as far as the whole Cartoon thing goes. At least for me. I love cartoons I have always been a fan of animation but it seems to a degree that the word cartoon is used in a negative fashion here in the west used to describe as Titan said kids stuff or stupid raunchy things and very rarely anything else. Being a fan of something you wouldn't want something negative used to describe something you love and I think that is why a large amount of people don't like it when someone calls anime cartoons.

That is just my opinion and how I feel about it.
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tygerchickchibi



Joined: 29 Sep 2006
Posts: 1090

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 5:38 pm Reply with quote
Man.

I remember telling someone that I really didn't see much difference between anime/cartoon. And that anime IS a cartoon.

She got pretty offended. =|
I didn't care.

A lot of shows have different styles of art. And anime does have an age group that it's targeted, for just like other animated series in America.

And not all anime have a storyline from beginning to end as well. So, I don't know.
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 5:59 pm Reply with quote
RyanSaotome wrote:

I'm not worried about the Western companies since I don't buy their bare bone releases. I feel if you really love a series, you should import it from Japan so your sale actually means something AND you get a far better package. If the Western companies died out, I would mean little to me except it might be nice to see less haters of recent anime on forums, due to less people getting interested in anime over here except for the ones who import or use fansubs. Most people who do these things generally tend to be the ones who like the current state of anime.


Christ. You'd be OK with an entire industry dying out and hundreds of people losing their jobs because it would somehow lead to this utopia of all anime fans agreeing with your personal taste.

Ridiculous.
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angelmcazares
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Joined: 23 Sep 2010
Posts: 1470
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:00 pm Reply with quote
RyanSaotome wrote:
I'm not worried about the Western companies since I don't buy their bare bone releases. I feel if you really love a series, you should import it from Japan so your sale actually means something AND you get a far better package. If the Western companies died out, I would mean little to me except it might be nice to see less haters of recent anime on forums, due to less people getting interested in anime over here except for the ones who import or use fansubs. Most people who do these things generally tend to be the ones who like the current state of anime.


This is a serious question Ryan; I am not trying to be a jerk. I understand you position on why importing contributes way more to the anime industry, but what about the fact that most Japanese anime products are not even English subtitled.

If you understand Japanese, that works. But what about those, like me, who do not understand Japanese. I am not scared of Japanese prices, but I still want at least subtitles.
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Thatguy3331



Joined: 18 Feb 2012
Posts: 1201

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:03 pm Reply with quote
Man, I forgot the anime vs cartoons thing even existed... well I used to be one of those people who were offended by it, but then I remembered the people who said that to me were dickheads so I stopped caring. Plus I've been watching cartoons all my life, I still watch cartoons some times, and I AM trying to be a cartoonist, so really having that reaction is kind of dumb and pointless.
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RyanSaotome



Joined: 29 Mar 2011
Posts: 4210
Location: Towson, Maryland

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:04 pm Reply with quote
angelmcazares wrote:
RyanSaotome wrote:
I'm not worried about the Western companies since I don't buy their bare bone releases. I feel if you really love a series, you should import it from Japan so your sale actually means something AND you get a far better package. If the Western companies died out, I would mean little to me except it might be nice to see less haters of recent anime on forums, due to less people getting interested in anime over here except for the ones who import or use fansubs. Most people who do these things generally tend to be the ones who like the current state of anime.


This is a serious question Ryan; I am not trying to be a jerk. I understand you position on why importing contributes way more to the anime industry, but what about the fact that most Japanese anime products are not even English subtitled.

If you understand Japanese, that works. But what about those, like me, who do not understand Japanese. I am not scared of Japanese prices, but I still want at least subtitles.


I don't rewatch anime, its more about supporting the anime I like and having it as part of my collection. I don't really mind if theres no dub or subtitles on it because of that... And if I really needed to watch it again, I could always just play the BD on my PC and add a .ass file to it.
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partially



Joined: 14 Oct 2007
Posts: 312
Location: Oz

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:04 pm Reply with quote
My two cents on the subject of cartoons is simply this.

Anime is an abbreviation of animation. Cartoon is not.

Cartoon is a form of 2D art, therefore most anime could be called cartoons if you wanted to, however certainly not all.

Just as not all US animation are cartoons. 3D animation for instance cannot be called cartoons, although unfortunately they often are.

Anime is therefore a much more useful word to use in terms of Japanese animation as it encompasses all animation from the country.

You should therefore not be offended if someone calls your favourite drawn 2D anime a cartoon. Although kindly point out to them they are using the word wrong if they refer to something that is not 2D. Razz
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agila61



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 3199
Location: NE Ohio

PostPosted: Fri Oct 26, 2012 6:09 pm Reply with quote
I'll note that
Quote:
The Japanese anime market can survive without the US market.

... is an extremely oversimplified claim in two ways.

(1) Its basic entertainment economics that if you sort various projects in order of success, you will have a set of projects that are on the bubble. Add an extra 5% net revenue, the projects that are break-even make a small profit instead, the projects making a small losss break even instead. Add an extra 10% net revenue, the effect is even larger.

The point at issue there is not the survival of a Japanese industry, but the health of the Japanese industry, industry, already plagued by the collapses of its former sources of income from ad-revenue and DVD rentals, and seeing a long term structural decline in its base market due to the aging Japanese population.

(2) The tacit premise that the US = The World ex Japan. The US is not the sole international anime market, its one among many. The impact on the Japanese industry of losing all oversee license income is the prior question. And to the extent that it can play a useful role in supporting the industry, then US fans that are actually fans ought to do their share among international anime fans to support the creators of the works that they are fans of.
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