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NEWS: Directors Dispute Reports of 'Poor' Animator Salaries


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Koji98



Joined: 13 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 1:22 pm Reply with quote
Hmmm, not too bad. Now I want to go compare the salaries to the US equivalent.
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Megiddo



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 1:28 pm Reply with quote
If I recall, the first article referred to the 'in-between' animators that have a heavy workload and are allegedly underpaid.

Why would mentioning the earnings of the animation director have anything to do with that article?

Am I missing something?
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ucdawg12



Joined: 20 Feb 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 1:35 pm Reply with quote
Megiddo wrote:
If I recall, the first article referred to the 'in-between' animators that have a heavy workload and are allegedly underpaid.

Why would mentioning the earnings of the animation director have anything to do with that article?

Am I missing something?


yeah i think you're right. i don't think many people thought the animators with the more impressive titles, the animation directors, episode directors, series directors, were making very little money. but it is interesting to see how much they make. it seems like a little disingenuous to say animators in general aren't struggling financially because the big names make good money
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Ktimene's Lover



Joined: 23 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 1:38 pm Reply with quote
A potential factor to how bad the anime recession has been these last 2 years is this article. These talented people are overworked and underpaid. Wonder if paying subscriptions on sites like CrunchyRoll can help at all increasing their annual salary. They should be earning $35,000 at least.
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Ralifar



Joined: 15 Jul 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 1:52 pm Reply with quote
Maybe the moral of the story is, "If you're an animator and you slave you ass off for pennies for long enough and get enough experience you can become an animation director?"
It's not a business I'd want to be involved in, but I thank them for their sacrifice. Of course if you're a career inbetweener then there might be something wrong with you. Or you're just really unlucky.
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PetrifiedJello



Joined: 11 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:02 pm Reply with quote
Cindy Yamauchi wrote:
How the industry manages to survive right now is a big mystery to me, considering only few hundred DVDs are sold per volume nationwide for many of the titles out there.

For someone in the industry, I'm a bit surprised by this statement given the fact historic sales have shown DVDs don't support (but do help) this industry.

Ctimene's Lover wrote:
Wonder if paying subscriptions on sites like CrunchyRoll can help at all increasing their annual salary.

Negative. These deals are between US sites and US distributors unless specific licensing has been set up through Japanese distributors.
Given the expense, I seriously doubt this to be the case. CR (and the like) simply can not afford to license shows from Japan without significant assistance.

Even with this report, doubts still linger. Sorry, but if the speculated average cost of an episode is $150,000, then the math simply isn't adding up for the monthly amounts.

No matter. We'll keep seeing "Anime is Teh Doom!" reports until the DVD makes a comeback. *chuckle*
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bayoab



Joined: 06 Oct 2004
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:24 pm Reply with quote
PetrifiedJello wrote:
Cindy Yamauchi wrote:
How the industry manages to survive right now is a big mystery to me, considering only few hundred DVDs are sold per volume nationwide for many of the titles out there.

For someone in the industry, I'm a bit surprised by this statement given the fact historic sales have shown DVDs don't support (but do help) this industry.

No, most shows are funded either by DVD sales or possibly merchandising sales for long running shows. There are no other sources of income since they pay for everything up until it airs. There is no advertiser revenue unless you are a top 3 show.

PetrifiedJello wrote:
Ctimene's Lover wrote:
Wonder if paying subscriptions on sites like CrunchyRoll can help at all increasing their annual salary.

Negative. These deals are between US sites and US distributors unless specific licensing has been set up through Japanese distributors.
Given the expense, I seriously doubt this to be the case. CR (and the like) simply can not afford to license shows from Japan without significant assistance.
Sorry, but most of the shows on CR are licensed straight from Japanese distributors. Buying digital distribution rights is very cheap compared to full out licensing the series.
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:32 pm Reply with quote
Hmm, I wonder what could be the cause of all this? Maybe the studios and executive producers are being tight and mean with all those big profits they have made. Looks like those animators should withdraw their talant until they are justifiably paid for all their effort and time sacrificed. Wink
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Ktimene's Lover



Joined: 23 Apr 2005
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:47 pm Reply with quote
Mohawk, I agree with you.
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PetrifiedJello



Joined: 11 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 2:55 pm Reply with quote
bayoab wrote:
Sorry, but most of the shows on CR are licensed straight from Japanese distributors.

Now, go back and relate this to the salaries of those who create the anime, not distribute it.

BIG difference, and more on target for what the article is trying to point out.

Kind of where I was going with my remarks.

Licensing fees to the studios is it. To this day, I've yet to read studios are on a royalty system.

I read this as "any 'revenues' goes towards distributors, not salary increases". I just hope I'm assuming incorrectly, but the articles don't help this assumption.
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 3:02 pm Reply with quote
That's a part of the problem. In Japan the concept of royalties awarded to creators and animators is quite unheard of, indeed it is felt to be rude to even ask. They get a flat fee paid at completion and that's it. If whatever production becomes a mega hit, tough darts.
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egoist
Pirate KingPirate King


Joined: 20 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 3:29 pm Reply with quote
How can you even measure the salary of anyone who's paid by episodes/drawings? I mean, in a month you could work on 5 episodes, next month 10 and the month after 15. So I'd say it's something by far more complicated than just saying 800$ monthly.
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pparker



Joined: 13 Oct 2007
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Location: Florida

PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 3:53 pm Reply with quote
@egoist: right.

Megiddo wrote:
If I recall, the first article referred to the 'in-between' animators that have a heavy workload and are allegedly underpaid.

IIRC, the pay ranges were ranked by age, not position. Also, as mentioned in one of Cindy H. Yamauchi's blog entries, the responses were likely skewed because the higher paid people didn't respond much. I see the same thing happen in open salary surveys in my industry (IT), where the survey averages are probably always lower than the reality. Her remarks on all the angles of this make a lot of sense to me. You have to click all three separate links to read the three different blog entries (I, II, III).

She touches on all the points and provides her industry insights, plus her own experience to compare. Nothing unusual happening, nothing particularly evil, just the normal evolution that occurs in economics. An evolution that continually puts some people out of work and promotes others to higher position and pay, and changes the dynamics of an industry. (Socialists should probably skip it... you'll just be irritated Wink.)


That said, according to the numbers in the article, if I decide to go into anime production, I'll be practicing with the piano or the word processor instead of the artist's pen. The directors don't make much either comparatively, but I may be confusing their actual roles with American ones in TV.
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ninjaclown



Joined: 17 Dec 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 5:40 pm Reply with quote
Reading this makes me wonder if some animators will start thinking of going independent, like paying the complete cost of producing something themselves in exchange for entitlement to all profit generated. I think that video "Training with Hinako" was completely independent, I think its creator must have lots of dough by now.
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TJR



Joined: 13 Jul 2009
Posts: 211

PostPosted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 6:41 pm Reply with quote
ninjaclown wrote:
Reading this makes me wonder if some animators will start thinking of going independent, like paying the complete cost of producing something themselves in exchange for entitlement to all profit generated.


It's very difficult for them to produce anything elaborate (and therefore competitive). While the talent might be there, financing isn't. Most anime projects are simply too niche and unprofitable, so banks won't lend money.

In terms of studios led by anime creators, Gonzo made a valiant attempt at raising their own capital and becoming much less dependent on other companies. While their attempt ultimately ended in failure, I doubt shows like Gankutsuou would've been possible had large advertising agencies and broadcasters called the shots.
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