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17 Minutes in Heaven With AKB48


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bin1127



Joined: 21 May 2009
Posts: 103

PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 8:21 pm Reply with quote
Glad to see them get their American debut. Though I'm not sure what's the reaction to 48 young teens in school dress.
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DomFortress



Joined: 13 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Tue Oct 06, 2009 10:04 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
The second encore at Webster Hall New York City. (c) AKS.
I'm going to guess that this was one of those weird promotional catch phrase that the Japanese promoters had thought up.

I really feel sorry for these young girls. Their career as idol group is about putting on a corporate entertainment image, while they're wasting away the most energetic moment of their life by not exploring just what they want to do for themselves. Sad

I know there are guys who are captivated by their beauty, when the girls of AKB48 don't even create their own songs. But personally, I can't even consider them as real women, when they don't even know what they want for themselves in what they do as career.
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TatsuGero23



Joined: 18 Nov 2008
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Location: Sniper Island, USA (It's in your heart!)

PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 9:49 am Reply with quote
Carlo is scary sometimes. You seem way too happy writting this article. NeutralLaughing

DomFortress wrote:
I really feel sorry for these young girls. Their career as idol group is about putting on a corporate entertainment image, while they're wasting away the most energetic moment of their life by not exploring just what they want to do for themselves. Sad

I know there are guys who are captivated by their beauty, when the girls of AKB48 don't even create their own songs. But personally, I can't even consider them as real women, when they don't even know what they want for themselves in what they do as career.


I'm not a fan nor really follow the J-pop world but that's kind of a weird observation of the pop star lifestyle. I get where your coming from and what your trying to get at but definitely a weird conclusion to come to. Especially since the same thing can be said about all of us. One of those defuncto, generic observations that applies to everything.

Really they are exploring and have reached an aspect of life that many others dream or fantasize about and experience things others will never have to oppurtunity to experience. To think they magically appeared in AKB48 with no amount of effort is naive. Most of them probably chose to persue a career in entertainment and were able to achieve it. Granted for next years of their life they follow the whims of their company; to say they mindless do so or that that way of life was the only choice for them is most likely innaccurate. And how is this not a career for them? Granted most of them won't be doing that when they turn 40, maybe even 30 but that's the world of entertainment; you have varying shelf lives.

And wow, popular musicians/singers/performers who don't write their own material? Stop the presses. We gotta let voice actors, broadway performers, movie stars, Elvis, orchestras, famous singers in pop and classical fields, animators etc etc; we must let them know they are not real people.
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DomFortress



Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Posts: 751
Location: Richmond BC, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 3:05 pm Reply with quote
TatsuGero23 wrote:
Carlo is scary sometimes. You seem way too happy writting this article. NeutralLaughing

DomFortress wrote:
I really feel sorry for these young girls. Their career as idol group is about putting on a corporate entertainment image, while they're wasting away the most energetic moment of their life by not exploring just what they want to do for themselves. Sad

I know there are guys who are captivated by their beauty, when the girls of AKB48 don't even create their own songs. But personally, I can't even consider them as real women, when they don't even know what they want for themselves in what they do as career.


I'm not a fan nor really follow the J-pop world but that's kind of a weird observation of the pop star lifestyle. I get where your coming from and what your trying to get at but definitely a weird conclusion to come to. Especially since the same thing can be said about all of us. One of those defuncto, generic observations that applies to everything.

Really they are exploring and have reached an aspect of life that many others dream or fantasize about and experience things others will never have to oppurtunity to experience. To think they magically appeared in AKB48 with no amount of effort is naive. Most of them probably chose to persue a career in entertainment and were able to achieve it. Granted for next years of their life they follow the whims of their company; to say they mindless do so or that that way of life was the only choice for them is most likely innaccurate. And how is this not a career for them? Granted most of them won't be doing that when they turn 40, maybe even 30 but that's the world of entertainment; you have varying shelf lives.

And wow, popular musicians/singers/performers who don't write their own material? Stop the presses. We gotta let voice actors, broadway performers, movie stars, Elvis, orchestras, famous singers in pop and classical fields, animators etc etc; we must let them know they are not real people.
My question is, just who are they beyond their corporate entertainment image? When their career as idol group demands so much time and effort for them to put on clothes that's not of their choosing, sing songs that's not of their creations, perform dance sequences that's not for their enjoyments.

I think Carlo Santos is a very smart interviewer, his questions to the four AKB48 representatives were all specially formulated to stay within the Japanese press conference style, while drawing comparisons among each girl. By having them express themselves on what they think and feel about the various aspects of their idol career. And he did so by keeping the fans' expectations out of the question.

Granted, their career as an idol group allowed them to experience something that they might never experience on their own as individuals. But that's also the same as saying they won't experience a life outside of their career. I mean, there are three of them chosen by their management to be "No Sleeves", without them even know the reason why for themselves. One of them even said so during the interview that it made her feel "lonely" due to the isolation. And it's not like they wanted to be different just for the extra attention in the first place.

And look at what they do with their free time aside from being a member of an idol group. Eating, sleeping, without them even "wondering what I'm going to do next". Do you think that's someone with a personality or even an identity of her own? That's what I meant for them not able to be real for themselves, when they don't even actively think about "the most important skill in being a successful idol". This isn't someone who fell in love with her career, when she's not even looking forward to it in the future during her own free time.

But hey, look how cute they are in their short skirts, and not to mention how young looking with their singing and dancing. After all, besides them all wearing the same clothes, these humans made dolls got managed to perform at "Webster Hall New York City" as a group. When they don't even know for themselves who and what are they doing it for. Just what are their dreams, when they don't even know for themselves?
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enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 10637

PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 3:28 pm Reply with quote
DomFortress wrote:

My question is, just who are they beyond their corporate entertainment image? When their career as idol group demands so much time and effort for them to put on clothes that's not of their choosing, sing songs that's not of their creations, perform dance sequences that's not for their enjoyments.


Heh, sounds like a job. Laughing
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slipperybogle



Joined: 29 Sep 2009
Posts: 43

PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 3:38 pm Reply with quote
@DomFortress: I think you're holding these pop idols to a kind of weird standard. Most people have doubts about their future and probably spend less time than they should thinking about what they're going to do next in their lives. I don't understand how that makes them not "real women." Most of the people I know who are working have, in one way or another, made a calculated choice to not always be able to do only what they would choose. Why is it different for pop stars?

I'm not really familiar with this genre of music but I read through the article and I got the impression that they at least had to have a modicum (and probably more) of talent and ambition to get where they are. I doubt being in this band is something that they'll later regret.
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DomFortress



Joined: 13 Feb 2009
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Location: Richmond BC, Canada

PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 3:59 pm Reply with quote
enurtsol wrote:
DomFortress wrote:

My question is, just who are they beyond their corporate entertainment image? When their career as idol group demands so much time and effort for them to put on clothes that's not of their choosing, sing songs that's not of their creations, perform dance sequences that's not for their enjoyments.


Heh, sounds like a job. Laughing
And it's one that's so over-consuming being what it is, I can't figure out how they're even satisfied with what they do as a job. When the nature of their job as idol group deviates so much from the principle of job satisfaction.

slipperybogle wrote:
@DomFortress: I think you're holding these pop idols to a kind of weird standard. Most people have doubts about their future and probably spend less time than they should thinking about what they're going to do next in their lives. I don't understand how that makes them not "real women." Most of the people I know who are working have, in one way or another, made a calculated choice to not always be able to do only what they would choose. Why is it different for pop stars?

I'm not really familiar with this genre of music but I read through the article and I got the impression that they at least had to have a modicum (and probably more) of talent and ambition to get where they are. I doubt being in this band is something that they'll later regret.
I'm holding them as individuals rather than a group, with standards based on how individuals relate themselves and each other within a group. This is standard practice in social science, which is now being adapted into the job field via human resource such as nursing, education, social works, and even private sectors. Or just about anywhere when health issues related to job satisfaction among employees is a concern for the employers.
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J-Syxx



Joined: 19 Mar 2004
Posts: 1405

PostPosted: Wed Oct 07, 2009 11:24 pm Reply with quote
^ pretentious
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DomFortress



Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Posts: 751
Location: Richmond BC, Canada

PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:15 pm Reply with quote
J-Syxx wrote:
^ pretentious
As in how? What's so fake about what I said? Were I not drawing my conclusion based on the same interview about the Japanese idol group AKB48? Was my analysis not based on the reply of the four AKB48 members that were interviewed? Was my logic proved to be faulty based on social science? Were I not to feel sorry for these individuals because that's not how I should feel? What? Confused
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TatsuGero23



Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 1275
Location: Sniper Island, USA (It's in your heart!)

PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 4:47 pm Reply with quote
J-Syxx: lol, that is so incredibly vague as to who your referring to which technically could be all of us. Thanks though.

DomFortress: Well the thing is who are you, and we, to know if they are just puppets or dolls of the j-pop entertainment world, or sincerely enjoying themselves? Who are we to know the more intimate details of their personal lives? Your comments and judgment of their characters our non-conclusive because unless you know them on a more intimiate or personal level beyond interviews and performances, you can't know if your obvservation is accurate or not. Granted its not hard to imagine your obsrvation is correct, but it doesn't really extend beyond an assumption or negatively preconceived personal opinion rather the matter of fact way you wrote it until you know them or their manager and his or her methods.

It's fine if you don't like their type of music or those types of artists that are borne more from the label rather then crawling out from nothingness to the limelight. I don't care for the music either or J-pop outside of "does it make a good anime opening or ending". But to negatively judge them from what seems to be fueled more from dislike or disinterest of their profession, rather then an issue workers right or social science studies of a group structure in a business built upon the opinions and interest of strangers and the ability to market to them; seems like a bad way to make a point especially when there's no proof it completely, if at all, applies to this group.

Calling them "not real people" seems too harsh of a opinion to come to especially since the definition of what makes someone real is so subjective and vague that it really shouldn't be approached with such a generic observational frame set. It's like when you wanna explain why you don't like a piticular music group but at the same time put down those who do; you just say "all their music sounds the same" which is generic in-of-itself on how it comments about how generic the music is.
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DomFortress



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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 8:00 pm Reply with quote
TatsuGero23 wrote:
Calling them "not real people" seems too harsh of a opinion to come to especially since the definition of what makes someone real is so subjective and vague that it really shouldn't be approached with such a generic observational frame set. It's like when you wanna explain why you don't like a piticular music group but at the same time put down those who do; you just say "all their music sounds the same" which is generic in-of-itself on how it comments about how generic the music is.
That's were you had me wrong, when I don't hate them for their performance, appearance, nor their singing. I feel sorry for them because of their career as members of a Japanese idol group called AKB48 isn't satisfying their personal lives. While at the same time their job itself demands so much of their youthful energy from them. For doing a lot of things that they do not looked forward to, inspired to be involved in, and encouraged to explore with.

On an individual base I'm sure I can become friends with them and who knows, even fall in love with one of them. But when their job as AKB48 sacrificed their personal lives in order to sustain an entertainment industry, I can't help but to feel sorry for them. And it's because I became an amateur social scientist due to my passion for social works, that allowed me to understand how and why I felt this way about them.
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Radkat



Joined: 08 May 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 9:50 pm Reply with quote
@DomFortress

My feeling is that these girls like what they are doing. Sure it's a busy schedule, but it's not without rewards. They actually have to work hard and continue to have the desire for what they do, and this cannot happen if they did not like it. What is it to be in the limelight? For some of us, it's nothing, but I suspect for these girls, it's something they'll work hard for. While they will probably have to retire by maybe age 25 or so, some will continue to become solo artists, while the less talented ones will be back to the 'normal' life of studying and mediocre jobs like the rest of us.

Everyone has different goals and desires. I do not think they are wasting their lives at all. What do you think they should be doing not to waste life then? Study hard to become a doctor or a lawyer? I'm sure there's a lot less 'life' involved in those career paths.
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DomFortress



Joined: 13 Feb 2009
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 08, 2009 11:03 pm Reply with quote
Radkat wrote:
Everyone has different goals and desires. I do not think they are wasting their lives at all. What do you think they should be doing not to waste life then? Study hard to become a doctor or a lawyer? I'm sure there's a lot less 'life' involved in those career paths.
Did this sound like someone who's inspired with what they do as a career?
Quote:
Eventually the interview arrives at this question: "What do you think is the most important skill in being a successful idol?" Somehow everyone ends up deferring to Kojima, who says "That's something I try not to think about too much."
I rest my case. Neutral
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Vicserr



Joined: 26 Apr 2004
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PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 9:11 am Reply with quote
Do remember that this is the Japanese idol interpretation of Menudo or something like that, so I guess most of the girls will go on with their private lives and we won't see them ever again, some of them will rise to something in other fields and maybe some will stay in the entertainment field and maybe become a star on their own.
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TatsuGero23



Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 1275
Location: Sniper Island, USA (It's in your heart!)

PostPosted: Fri Oct 09, 2009 10:23 am Reply with quote
DomFortress wrote:
But when their job as AKB48 sacrificed their personal lives in order to sustain an entertainment industry, I can't help but to feel sorry for them. And it's because I became an amateur social scientist due to my passion for social works, that allowed me to understand how and why I felt this way about them.


Then my problem comes from that your drawing way to definite of a conclusion of pity for them without learning more about them in terms of its organization and operations; leaning more towards an opinion then a subpar sociologic analysis. To jump to the point of pity when its only seems to be based on this one international press interview, and probably mounds of TV and movie stereotypes and impressions collected passively throughout life, is definitely flawed and poor science in general. Even on an amatuer level.

Truthiness (basically that gut feeling of what's true or not developed through a mix of experience, facts, and personal morales) works from an opinionated, or argument/counter argument stance, but it has no place in science or scientific studies (at least not in its truest form); whether professional, amatuer, or casual. It's fine to be passionate about this, but you have to remember to approach from an unbiase point of view or you risk effecting the results of your study or analysis and to avoid such foregone personal stances of pity, thrill, admiration or whatever when analyzing or explaining one's idea or thesis. You also better not be approaching things with the "If you can't prove it, it must not exist" mindset people tend to develop after a few weeks of high school science. That's flawed science and a horrible mindset to have when dealing with such a varying subject structure like psychology or studies of the society and humanity.
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