Forum - View topicHey, Answerman! [2009-11-06]
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Prede
 Posts: 388 |
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I have to agree with you there. Anime is undoubtly superior in terms of artwork. I really can't find many western shows that look as nice, or hell are even half as detailed as most anime, even regualar TV series. Ever compare Paranoia Agent to whatever crappy cartoon Adult Swim had on afterwards? LOL it's like on a different planet in terms of quility! And that was a TV show! 99% of western cartoons are crappy looking, cheap, and low quality work. And don't even get me started on all the CGI movies of late. Sure they look nice, but they wreak of lazyness, and can't compare to most anime in terms of style. CGI is boring...If your going to use CGI, it should be used the right way, to enhance the primarily hand drawn images. Or hell even done in expermintal ways. The constant "Ice Age" or "UP!" look just proves there's little creativity in terms of artwork. Even when an anime is done completely on computers, they at least attempt to make it interesting looking. Or do something original. At the very least it usually is more apealing to my eyes then "Wall-e" or "Kung Fu Panda"... |
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ikillchicken
 Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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There's not really much point in trying to offer a counterpoint to someone who can't think of anything smarter to say than that stuff is crappy/retarded over and over.
No actually I've never done that...because it's ridiculous. Obviously if you compare the worst of the worst from one group to the best from another group there's a difference. |
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Prede
Posts: 388 |
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Ok compare it to the "best" (subjective btw) cartoon ever. That cartoon still doesn't even deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as Paranoia Agent, if your talking about the artwork... I was only compareing Paranoia Agent to an adult swim show, because since they aired on the same channel and around the same time, the contrast would be very apparent, and many people would be aware of what I was talking about. |
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Haterater
 Posts: 1727 |
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Sounding like a variant of Chris Beveridge. Are comparing all of anime to current Western animation? Because that's what I'm getting from some of these people to argue this. One of my favorite art styles is Gargoyles and it still looks wonderful and detailed to this day. You want deep relationships and a storyline, PLEASE watch that show. I'm sure there are other types out there that's been made long ago as well, and once again it turns to a "each one has a good/bad point" deal. This type of thing reminds me of some anime fans of today not even bothering with anime of the 80s because it looks so different than what they are used to. I wonder if they would consider that anime look then to be of "bad" animation. |
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ikillchicken
Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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[quote="Prede"]Ok compare it to the "best" (subjective btw) cartoon ever. That cartoon still doesn't even deserve to be mentioned in the same sentence as Paranoia Agent, if your talking about the artwork...
Well, I wouldn't quite put it so strongly and personally I was never all that much of a fan of Paranoia Agent. However, I do actually agree with your overall point. I would concede that when you make a fair comparison art-wise between the best of anime and the best of other animation anime probably has the edge. It's not especially cut and dry though to me. P.S. Are you really going to bring up the whole 'quality is subjective' thing while in the same post you proceed to argue that anime is superior? |
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Prede
Posts: 388 |
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I mean "the best cartoon artsyle ever !!!11!one one" is subjective. I don't even want to begin down that road. It's easy to see how there's much more detail in most anime then in most cartoons. Hell even long-runing series on a tight budget like Yu Yu Hakusho and Case Closed manage to look nice, and have more detail then most western cartoons out there. Therefore my argument is anime is more detialed and looks better then cartoons. This still makes sense. There's really no excuse for the level of quailty in artwork in animation this side of the Pacific. They have the budget, use it... 
BTW I am just talking about how a series looks. I would never hold a "bad art style" against an anime. For those who know me, I'm a big fan of old school stuff, yet also love new anime. I am not bothered much by dated animation or anything. Even shows with terrible artwork can be good as long as the plot is there. I'm not against watching something because it doesn't look nice. I am however saying cartoons look pisspoor in comparison to anime. FYI I'm a huge fan of the Paranoia Agent artsyle. Wish more anime would look like that. Last edited by Prede on Sat Nov 07, 2009 9:48 am; edited 1 time in total |
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leafy sea dragon
 Posts: 7163 Location: Another Kingdom |
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Anime are cartoons. Anime is a subcategory of animation, which is in turn a subcategory of cartoons.
The thing is that cartoons have since fallen out of vogue with kids. The Disney Channel gave a one-two punch to all the other networks with High School Musical and Hannah Montana, and all the elementary school kids have been gluing their eyeballs to the Disney Channel since. I guess I'm old, but I'm absolutely baffled as to how this happened, especially since the premiere of HSM didn't get an explosive reception like its 2nd airing did. (The middle school kids are all watching South Park and Family Guy anyway, so that audience is irrelevant.) You can see the desperate state of affairs in CN Real. When a channel calling itself CARTOON NETWORK considers putting live-action with no animation in it at all enough to make a whole block of them, it's a sign that animation is old hat.
We just had one earlier this year, Battle for Terra. It's also an animated science fiction drama aimed at adults, and it carries the same pessimistic environmentalist themes. They're both about a decimated human population trying to recolonize after an apocalypse by trying to wipe out the opposing force and the central figure being a princess deeply in touch with nature. I can't say the people behind Battle for Terra are at the same level as Ghibli, but its failure at the box office despite the resounding success of most other CGI works would lead me to believe that the United States is not culturally ready for adult-oriented animated drama yet. I don't think it can even be compared to Nausicaa aside from the story, though it IS one of the rare earnest efforts to get adults to watch a cartoon that isn't comedy. |
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Avarice_WP
 Posts: 44 Location: Northrend |
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Ah, ikillchicken, jump on the hater bandwagon! i was actually agreeing with you almost entirely in my first post, and thought your message to that chris guy was hilarious. It's just that I dont like retarded animation/ designs. If you really think its worthless to argue with me because name calling isnt a point, I could recite to you from a thesaurus what they mean. Ahem.
Anyways, leafy sea dragon, thanks for bringing up battle for terra. If they were marketing that flick at a more adult population, maybe they should have made the characters look less 'silly' and 'child-like' ; and made them look more 'real' (I have to be careful about how I describe things or I get the stick). Edit: OH, and it probably wouldnt have been such a turn off to moviegoers if humans werent portrayed as the villains. Dont think, Just stomp those alien bugs! |
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Avarice_WP
Posts: 44 Location: Northrend |
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Hey Haterater, Gargoyles was OK- IT doesnt hold a candle to Samurai Pizza Cats though!
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ikillchicken
Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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If you think you were agreeing with me then you evidently missed my point entirely.
You can pull out any definition you like. Calling stuff 'retarded' is not a point. You might as well declare US animation 'gay'. In addition to being utterly childish, these criticisms have no specific meaning other than a general negative connotation and thus one can not even attempt to refute them in any intelligent manner. If you have anything more intelligent and thought out to say then by all means say it. If not, I suspect you aren't quite up to the standards of ANN. Perhaps you'd be more comfortable here. |
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Prede
Posts: 388 |
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No it's more like the broad term is "animation" which can then be broken down into "western cartoons" (cartoons) and "anime" by their location of origin. |
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Haterater
Posts: 1727 |
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Oh no you didn't! 
I love them both, but I can't compare two different genres in action drama and action comedy! In other words, I won't give favorites! Speaking of which, do people like the style of Shin-Chan or Super Milk Chan? I still stand by that those two could easily fit with AS Sunday's schedule due to how that particular animation can fit with some of the stuff there. Especially Shin-Chan. |
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vinamara
 Posts: 229 |
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What I don't understand is why nobody mentions Animax, the dedicated channel for anime where you can watch FMA: Brotherhood at the same time released in Japan what they call Simulcast? If there's got to be a good English source for dubbed anime then I think this channel is it.
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vashfanatic
 Posts: 3489 Location: Back stateside |
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So, more detailed = better? You've hit on the trade-off that anime makes: more detail, but less movement. A cartoon like Batman is less detailed, but it had smoother movement and better lip-sych - no long pans over barely moving images. You may prefer the high-detail, low-movement anime style over the low-detail, high-movement American style, but one isn't intrinsically better than the other. |
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Ian K
 Posts: 250 |
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As others have said, Chris Beveridge's 9 Reasons do not definitively mark anime as superior to American animation, but (aside from #4) they do work as examples why a lot of anime is superior to the majority of American cartoons.
Oh wait. He called the article "9 Reasons Why Anime is Superior to Western Animation". Western animation which includes stuff like this, this, and this? I take it back, he has no idea what he's talking about. (okay, he probably does, he's just taking the easy way out and going for maximum sensationalism) |
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