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Shelf Life - Dragon Age


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animeboy12



Joined: 15 Sep 2008
Posts: 160
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:12 am Reply with quote
Well, I'm not going to defend loli, nor was I never interested in popotan for the loli element, I had the hots for Ai, the older busty sister. That being said well I don't get turned on by loli, like Blood- I'm also desensitized the with so-called shock value or supposed creep factor. Don't me wrong I get why most people are creeped out by the stuff but at the same time I don't. I dunno it just doesn't seem like something I'd get too worked up about.
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_Earthwyrm_





PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 10:33 am Reply with quote
It is obviously biased and unprofessional to think overtly sexualised pictures of children are squicky, Erin - even worse to comment on it negatively, rather than gloss over that particular facet of the show! People should only review shows that they know that they are going to like; and they should do it objectively! Razz
Also, for some reason, just because you are part of a shared fandom, you should just accept (and appreciate!) all the weird fetishes in there, even the gross ones. Especially the gross ones.

I hope that you are prepared to be hearing about this for the rest of the thread, even despite your disclaimer about reviews being opinions.
A storm approaches - Brace yourself!
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Hardgear





PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 11:03 am Reply with quote
Definitely agree with you about reading multiple reviews. Reviewers really are just people giving their opinions on whatever it is they are reviewing. My tastes were more similar to Bamboo's than yours, but I enjoy your column as much as I did hers due to the "fresh perspective".

That being said, I find it funny how a lot of reviewers mention that a show has "no social, educational, or societal value". To be honest, when I (and most everyone else) watch non-educational entertainment TV, we are watching simply to be entertained. And if we are entertained, the show is good despite having no social, educational, or societal value and perhaps being bad overall. Like the Super Mario Bros movie... it being so bad made it very entertaining, which makes it good. damn paradoxes. Same with the 2nd Bleach movie. It did in fact have all the flaws Carl mentioned in his review and the forum goers added, but I was entertained enough during the movie that I either didn't notice or they didn't bother me. Thus despite being very flawed, it was a good movie IMO.

Yeah, I get the feeling I would be flamed in the forums daily if I had my own review column/site for putting things like Magical Play in the "OMG BEST EVER!" category simply because I could not stop laughing throughout the entire series. I still get teary eyed when I think of that show and how it was cut so short Crying or Very sad
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Greed1914



Joined: 28 Oct 2007
Posts: 4421
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 11:32 am Reply with quote
I'm a bit surprised and pleased that the review for Dragonaut had the same reactions that I did as far as Trogdor was pretty much the first thing I thought of when watching, and then I really was questioning the names. I seriously wanted to pull the one guy aside and say, "You really named your dragon that you talk to all the time Howling Star?" For some reason I also found calling Toa "The Album" strange. I guess that seems like just a random name, especially if it comes from some sort of government agency.
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PetrifiedJello



Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 3782
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 11:48 am Reply with quote
Erin wrote:
If I only watch a title once, it's a rental, but if I find it morally repugnant, it's perishable. Like Popotan.

The truly disturbing thing about Popotan is not just that Mii exists, or that in the visual novel this series is based on, Mii gets more sex scenes than any other character.

This will be the last Shelf Life column I read.

Erin, you seem to be very confused on the definitions of "sex scene" and "nude scene" and clearly choose to pass this confusion to your readers, who are trying to form an opinion on this series.

What I take from your statement, Erin, is that you find parents who take photos/videos of their nude children as repugnant people who fuel the child pornography engine. Never mind the fact these parents would also disagree with you.

I can't blame you for your position that seeing a nude child is instantly given a pornography label. You seem to be of the generation who grew up watching TV in the 80s with its "Little girl, if a grown man talks to you, run away and call the police" messages. If you were lucky to clear those, I'm sure those Dateline "Little girl, if a grown man wants to chat with you, disconnect and call the police" episodes put the final nail into the "every man is a pedophile" coffin.

Yes, child molesters do exist, as well as murderers, rapists, and white collar criminals who steal millions from law-abiding workers saving for retirement.

But to apply one "morally repugnant" form of an opinion in a column while dismissing others is pretty insulting to readers who then must figure out where the relevance to the series begins and the personal opinion, absolutely unrelated to the series, ends.

Erin wrote:
I'd like to state here that I'm not some kind of prude.

I'm sorry, Erin, but from where I'm sitting, this is exactly how you come across, especially when you purposely define a character (having childish behavior to call breasts "puffy puffs" and treats them as toys) as a "sex object" in order to defend your "perishable" rating over a personal "morally repugnant" definition.

I can't help but notice the irony here, given I'm the male and you're the female, but you're the one seeing Mii as the sex object.

Ranma824 wrote:
Of course Popotan gets perishable, never mind the fact it's the only show with actual heart in this column.

I'm going to make an assumption here given this remark seems to stem from the objections of Erin's unpleasantness regarding Mii's character.

For those who may not share Erin's position on the nudity: This title is perishable.

The story, although having a very good primer, fizzles and falls completely apart by the time the credits roll. Why were the girls on the quest? What reason does the house have to move through space and time? What role does Shizuku have, given she's the "girl" they're after?

The potential this series has remains just that: potential. Without execution, this series isn't worth a purchase unless those nude scenes is the reason.

When I stated 30% of my blind buys were considered "bad", this title is one of them. Yes, for its small number of episodes, you can find "entertainment", but I sure as hell wouldn't have spent $20 for it.

To those even curious about this title, fan sub or stream it. Don't even waste money renting it. The funds can go to other titles deserving of the cash.

Of course, if those nude scenes is why you want to purchase, just be aware there's a wasted story which will interrupt your form of entertainment.
Wink
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Joe Mello



Joined: 31 May 2004
Posts: 2255
Location: Online Terminal
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:11 pm Reply with quote
Between the Lovecraft and Trogdor, Erin is officially my new favorite person x3

Splitter wrote:
The loli has been a staple of cliche harem characters ever since Tenchi Muyo! established the cliche harem lineup with Sasami. The other thing that must be taken into consideration is Japanese sensibilities again American ones.

I'll hesitantly agree with you on the Tenchi point, but last time I checked, Japan still has an age of consent, and it's Junior High-age at the earliest.

Also, these forum posts will constant remind me to never review anime, because I would obviously do it the wrong way. Rolling Eyes
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Sentire



Joined: 21 Apr 2008
Posts: 981
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:15 pm Reply with quote
Hardgear wrote:
That being said, I find it funny how a lot of reviewers mention that a show has "no social, educational, or societal value". To be honest, when I (and most everyone else) watch non-educational entertainment TV, we are watching simply to be entertained.

That comment caught my attention as well. Personally, it varies for me. At times I want a show that's going to move me... one that has more substance. Other times I want something purely entertaining - that is mindless and fun. The key is to not expect some deep, moral substance to come out of something that advertises no such thing. You can't hold everything to the same standard... you can't bite into a banana, expecting it to be juicy like an orange. I think reviews need to be written from this standpoint. By the way, I'm not saying Erin did or didn't do this. It doesn't really matter. When I read reviews, I'm consciously deciding whether the reviewer has made an unfair comparison. If in doubt, I watch the show for myself.
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jenthehen



Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 835
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:18 pm Reply with quote
Shocked AHhhhhhhhhhhhhh! MY SHELVES!!!! Wow!! I'm famous. lol. Oh my ... I think I sent these in back in June ... let's just say I have a lot more figures now since I had just started collecting then. Wink

I can't help but be interested in Popotan ... the art is eyecatching and while it may be silly/dumb, I'm a sucker for fanservice, and if people talk about how scandelous something is (a la Kodomo No Jikan) I instantly want to see it, just to see what the fuss is all about.
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asimpson2006



Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 3151
Location: USA
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:35 pm Reply with quote
jenthehen wrote:

I can't help but be interested in Popotan ... the art is eyecatching and while it may be silly/dumb, I'm a sucker for fanservice, and if people talk about how scandelous something is (a la Kodomo No Jikan) I instantly want to see it, just to see what the fuss is all about.


I am sorta of the same way, but I am usually into those type of shows so me for me it is more of checking out something I may like.

Sentire wrote:

That comment caught my attention as well. Personally, it varies for me. At times I want a show that's going to move me... one that has more substance. Other times I want something purely entertaining - that is mindless and fun.


I think a lot of people are that way, that sometimes you want one thing and other times you want something different. Like I am trying to finish up watching Mahoromatic: Something more Beautiful, but I ended up watching more of Kodocha instead because I was in the mood for something with a lot of energy.
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YotaruVegeta



Joined: 02 Jul 2002
Posts: 1061
Location: New York
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:38 pm Reply with quote
As a guy, I enjoy boobs in my anime, but stuff like Popotan was just to lame to justify my watching of it. I don't even remember how many episodes I watched. Maybe 2?
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Ari-chan



Joined: 05 Feb 2005
Posts: 215
Location: Florida
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 12:51 pm Reply with quote
PetrifiedJello wrote:
Erin wrote:
If I only watch a title once, it's a rental, but if I find it morally repugnant, it's perishable. Like Popotan.

The truly disturbing thing about Popotan is not just that Mii exists, or that in the visual novel this series is based on, Mii gets more sex scenes than any other character.

This will be the last Shelf Life column I read.

Erin, you seem to be very confused on the definitions of "sex scene" and "nude scene" and clearly choose to pass this confusion to your readers, who are trying to form an opinion on this series.

What I take from your statement, Erin, is that you find parents who take photos/videos of their nude children as repugnant people who fuel the child pornography engine. Never mind the fact these parents would also disagree with you.

I can't blame you for your position that seeing a nude child is instantly given a pornography label. You seem to be of the generation who grew up watching TV in the 80s with its "Little girl, if a grown man talks to you, run away and call the police" messages. If you were lucky to clear those, I'm sure those Dateline "Little girl, if a grown man wants to chat with you, disconnect and call the police" episodes put the final nail into the "every man is a pedophile" coffin.

Yes, child molesters do exist, as well as murderers, rapists, and white collar criminals who steal millions from law-abiding workers saving for retirement.

But to apply one "morally repugnant" form of an opinion in a column while dismissing others is pretty insulting to readers who then must figure out where the relevance to the series begins and the personal opinion, absolutely unrelated to the series, ends.

Erin wrote:
I'd like to state here that I'm not some kind of prude.

I'm sorry, Erin, but from where I'm sitting, this is exactly how you come across, especially when you purposely define a character (having childish behavior to call breasts "puffy puffs" and treats them as toys) as a "sex object" in order to defend your "perishable" rating over a personal "morally repugnant" definition.

I can't help but notice the irony here, given I'm the male and you're the female, but you're the one seeing Mii as the sex object.

Ranma824 wrote:
Of course Popotan gets perishable, never mind the fact it's the only show with actual heart in this column.

I'm going to make an assumption here given this remark seems to stem from the objections of Erin's unpleasantness regarding Mii's character.

For those who may not share Erin's position on the nudity: This title is perishable.

The story, although having a very good primer, fizzles and falls completely apart by the time the credits roll. Why were the girls on the quest? What reason does the house have to move through space and time? What role does Shizuku have, given she's the "girl" they're after?

The potential this series has remains just that: potential. Without execution, this series isn't worth a purchase unless those nude scenes is the reason.

When I stated 30% of my blind buys were considered "bad", this title is one of them. Yes, for its small number of episodes, you can find "entertainment", but I sure as hell wouldn't have spent $20 for it.

To those even curious about this title, fan sub or stream it. Don't even waste money renting it. The funds can go to other titles deserving of the cash.

Of course, if those nude scenes is why you want to purchase, just be aware there's a wasted story which will interrupt your form of entertainment.
Wink


Parents who take pictures of their children naked are one thing, actively drawing an underage girl in sexual (or graphically nude) situations clearly to provide fap fodder for older men is different. Anyone playing a visual novel game or watching an anime should already know that the nudity is usually for "fan service" which would mean normally that it's done to sexually arouse and humor the viewer. I'm not a "Oh my gosh a little girl is naked we must save the children!" kind of person, but there are differences between normal nudity, and nudity done to be sexy. Popotan, from my perspective, was usually the latter case. Mii's personality and appearance was designed with the more "pedo-side" of otaku in mind. Now, you may not have considered Mii to be a sex object, and I think that's very good of you, but you are kidding yourself if you think Mii wasn't supposed to be sexually objectified in any way.

It doesn't help that the show's case when the story was just one big piece of wasted potential. That means all the show has going for it is it's fanservice, which really, seemed to be it's main objective after all.

I think Erin's problem with Popotan is rather justifiable, granted she could have shortend her rant, but Mii is a rather big part of the show and the fact that she does get so sexualized at times can be very off putting to newcomers and people who aren't so comfortable with how children in anime are sometimes depicted. It doesn't help that the story is so small that there really isn't much to say about it which she even states in the article itself, so she talks about her main problem with the show. You also really didn't add much more to it yourself except extend on the story part that she still mentioned.

Personally I found the show to be dumb, and not because of some moral standpoint on child porn or anything like that, as I normally like fanservice shows, but Popotan was rather uninteresting in terms of plot and I didn't like any of the characters, so the fanservice just felt like a cheap excuse for a lack of a good story.


Last edited by Ari-chan on Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:13 pm; edited 2 times in total
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YotaruVegeta



Joined: 02 Jul 2002
Posts: 1061
Location: New York
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:00 pm Reply with quote
I didn't get why the hell anyone was naked in Popotan.
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Splitter



Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 1276
Location: Knockin' on Heaven's Door
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:01 pm Reply with quote
Joe Mello wrote:

Also, these forum posts will constant remind me to never review anime, because I would obviously do it the wrong way. Rolling Eyes


Rule #1 of reviewing: You will NEVER please everyone.
Rule #2 of reviewing: Those you don't please will hate you.

That said, I commend Erin among other ANN reviewers for not being afraid to speak her mind, even when they know their opinions will piss some people off. Personally, I think its a valid viewpoint, even if her examples and hyperbole are both way off.
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jenthehen



Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 835
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:17 pm Reply with quote
Hmm ... it's starting to sound like even if you are in it for the fanservice (loli or not) that Popotan is a bad show :/

At least other shows that have a "squick" factor like KnJ are actually GOOD (or at least decent) ... still curious, though. Wink
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YotaruVegeta



Joined: 02 Jul 2002
Posts: 1061
Location: New York
PostPosted: Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:21 pm Reply with quote
I like anime that at least try to come up with an excuse for nudity.
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