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Last edited by kawaiibunny3 on Mon Dec 07, 2009 1:32 pm; edited 1 time in total

Wasn't Popotan based on an Eroge?
usually shows based on any game are just meant to give viewers a 'taste' of what to expect if you buy the game in hopes of reaching a new audience and also to give established fans a little something extra as for thanks for buying it, knowing they'll buy the DVDs. (right?)

I've never seen Popotan aside from a few opening songs out of curiousity (because the cover just looked like "Nurse Witch Komugi" to me, and I didn't really want any more of that) but I'm not really surprised that it has no substance aside from the fanservice.

I mean. i just watched the opening for the game, and Mii just had 5 panty shots (one of which involved..uh... i'd rather not say) while Ai(?) just had a shot of her getting out of a bath-tub. so just from that I can already tell who the director's decided should get the most screen time.

also Halko Momoi voiced Mii, and sang the opening songs (as part of the "Under 17" duo) so I'm sure there was a little subliminal marketing strategy to selling her album while giving Mii screen time.

Yay Sgt Frog next week! :3

Wow ... I also just watched the opening and now I'm less interested ... mostly because the animation is really ugly.

Edit: Oh, I watched the opening to the anime, just for clarification.

YotaruVegeta wrote:

I didn't get why the hell anyone was naked in Popotan.

LOL. Because otherwise there would be no point? Wink

I didn't mind Popotan, even enjoyed the sort of WTF plot. I get bored easily with standard, linear/flashback plotting, so any show that tries to break out of that is welcome. That said, I couldn't in good conscience recommend Popotan to anyone else, certainly anyone in the U.S. The show was made to cater to fans of the game, which (from what I've read) is pure loli/pedo pron.

Nothing like this is going to play well outside Japan. Maybe a bit more acceptable in Europe, but anime is the only mass medium I'm aware of that accepts this level of sexualization of children. I think it works in Japan because traditionally, before and despite Western influence, they weren't prudish about the human body per se. The acceptance of these depictions is quite likely just a holdover from that viewpoint, which wasn't entirely suppressed. They still hold festivals where young girls carry a large penis through the streets celebrating fertility, so the nudity itself wouldn't generally be offensive in their culture.

The lolicon aspect is definitely there and blatant. Now... lolicon does not equal pedophile, and watching Popotan does not equal viewer is a lolicon. Popotan contains enough humor and, as mentioned, theme and heartfelt character struggles to make Mii's depictions pretty irrelevant. The way it seems to be just a glimpse into an ongoing story, with no beginning and no end, is appealing to me. I likened it structurally to overhearing only the middle of an intriguing conversation.

If you aren't immediately offended by anything lolicon--and believe me, it's not nearly as rampant and pervasive in this series as might be believed from the review--it's worth renting to see if you enjoy the humor and the emotional flow of the story.

PetrifiedJello wrote:

Ranma824 wrote:

Of course Popotan gets perishable, never mind the fact it's the only show with actual heart in this column.

I'm going to make an assumption here given this remark seems to stem from the objections of Erin's unpleasantness regarding Mii's character.

It was more of a general "of course she didn't give it a chance" kind of thing, not really about one character.

Quote:

For those who may not share Erin's position on the nudity: This title is perishable.

The story, although having a very good primer, fizzles and falls completely apart by the time the credits roll. Why were the girls on the quest? What reason does the house have to move through space and time? What role does Shizuku have, given she's the "girl" they're after?

Even the girls didn't know why they were jumping through time. This show was more about the character interactions then storyline. How their presence changed the lives of the people they met, how their own family dymanic played out, the show was all about the characters. Now if you're a person that doesn't think that'd be interesting to watch, then the show is not for you.

If I remember right, didn't Shizuku give them the "out" they were looking for? And the funny thing about that, is once the girls were given what they wanted; they realize the old saying, "be careful what you wish for." And in the end they choose to come back together to continue their journey. A journey to what and where is besides the point, as the show was always about girls.

I have to call BS on Erin's repeated assertion that Burst Angel sexualises underage characters. I watched the series quite recently, and although there is ridiculous fanservice throughout, Amy (who is about 10 is guess) is never in a sexual situation or presented in a sexual way.

This leads me to wonder if Popotan is actually as exploitative as she made it sound. If gags about young girls' cup size count as a "sex scene", then I guess we should throw Azumanga Daioh in the loli dumpster.

I liked the Muscle Tower bit in Dragon Ball, especially Goku's fight against the ninja. I will agree that the pirate treasure bit was severely dull, though.

You have to appreciate that Funimation provided at least a decent dub for the original series, even though Stephanie Naldony isn't a particularly good Goku and Tiffany Vollmer's Bulma still sounds way too "valley girl"-ish most of the time.

purplepolecat wrote:

I have to call BS on Erin's repeated assertion that Burst Angel sexualises underage characters. I watched the series quite recently, and although there is ridiculous fanservice throughout, Amy (who is about 10 is guess) is never in a sexual situation or presented in a sexual way.

This leads me to wonder if Popotan is actually as exploitative as she made it sound. If gags about young girls' cup size count as a "sex scene", then I guess we should throw Azumanga Daioh in the loli dumpster.

Erin reached too far when she looked for examples of R1-licensed loli smut, but Popotan is guilty of almost every charge Erin levied against it. Yes, there is no sex scene in Popotan but Mii is presented in a very squicky manner.

In the show's defense, the parts that focused on Mai were really good.

Last edited by Cosplaybunny on Mon Dec 07, 2009 3:24 pm; edited 2 times in total

purplepolecat wrote:

I have to call BS on Erin's repeated assertion that Burst Angel sexualises underage characters. I watched the series quite recently, and although there is ridiculous fanservice throughout, Amy (who is about 10 is guess) is never in a sexual situation or presented in a sexual way.

This leads me to wonder if Popotan is actually as exploitative as she made it sound. If gags about young girls' cup size count as a "sex scene", then I guess we should throw Azumanga Daioh in the loli dumpster.

To save Erin the trouble of having to address this, let me quote her article:

Quote:

The truly disturbing thing about Popotan is not just that Mii exists, or that in the visual novel this series is based on, Mii gets more sex scenes than any other character.

In other words, the visual novel this show is based on contains sex scenes with Mii. Not the anime. Erin never says there is a sex scene in the anime.

Ergo, there are no sex scenes in Azumanga Daioh.

The problem comes from the context of the situation. If Azumanga Daioh was based on an eroge, there would be an entirely different feel and subtext to the show.

purplepolecat wrote:

I have to call BS on Erin's repeated assertion that Burst Angel sexualises underage characters. I watched the series quite recently, and although there is ridiculous fanservice throughout, Amy (who is about 10 is guess) is never in a sexual situation or presented in a sexual way.

I'm standing by my point on this one. You can read my longer explanation here.

take this as useless bitching if you want but that dark skinned girl jump roping in that dragonaut trailer is Garnet not Machina

Erin, it's so sad that you had to write that intro.

Man, I hate anime fans.

Well, we'd classify that as nitpicking. Smile

Hardgear wrote:

That being said, I find it funny how a lot of reviewers mention that a show has "no social, educational, or societal value".

Eek, a lot of people are taking this the wrong way. I was trying to reference a Supreme Court ruling on obscenity, specifically to the Roth Test, which came out of a cased called A Book Named "John Cleland's Memoirs of a Woman of Pleasure" v. Attorney General of Com. of Mass.:

383 U.S. 413 (1966) wrote:

it must be established that (a) the dominant theme of the material taken as a whole appeals to a prurient interest in sex; (b) the material is patently offensive because it affronts contemporary community standards relating to the description or representation of sexual matters; and (c) the material is utterly without redeeming social value. ...

You can read more about it on PBS's website. I had started off writing a much longer piece with more Supreme Court references, but it was getting really ridiculous and I cut most of it out of the final column.

I'm a big proponent of television as art. I have a B.F.A. in Film and Television, and I'd like to the think the F for Fine Arts in there means something.

That said I don't necessarily want everything I watch to be educational or "deep." My husband, on the other hand, will never watch a "popcorn movie" or anything that requires you to "shut your brain off" and have a good time. He always freaks out about that. I'm more open to watching something that's "shallow" entertainment.

I think a lot of anime, for example, Dragonball, has redeeming artistic value. It may be "stupid fun" sometimes, but not every episode is without some value - including social value.

If you were talking about the Bleach movie "Memoirs of Nobody," It didn't entertain me. It failed to hold my attention because the protagonist was a movie-only character and it had no impact on series continuity.

PetrifiedJello wrote:

Erin, you seem to be very confused on the definitions of "sex scene" and "nude scene" and clearly choose to pass this confusion to your readers, who are trying to form an opinion on this series.

Context is king. You're missing the word "sexual". There were plenty of "sexual" scenes in Popotan. Plus, as other readers have pointed out, this was based on an Erogame - the entire show is like an ad for an erotic game starring Mii. If you watch the game opening on youtube, Mii is introduced masturbating. You can't watch this TV show completely out of context with the rest of the franchise.

PetrifiedJello wrote:

What I take from your statement, Erin, is that you find parents who take photos/videos of their nude children as repugnant people who fuel the child pornography engine. Never mind the fact these parents would also disagree with you.

Again, context is king. A picture of a naked baby in a bathtub taken by a parent is hardly the same thing as a 25 minute advertisement for an erotic game.

PetrifiedJello wrote:

But to apply one "morally repugnant" form of an opinion in a column while dismissing others is pretty insulting to readers who then must figure out where the relevance to the series begins and the personal opinion, absolutely unrelated to the series, ends.

Reviews are opinion pieces by nature. If you just want plain old information about the series, you could read the distributor's website.

Ranma824 wrote:

Of course Popotan gets perishable, never mind the fact it's the only show with actual heart in this column.

What are you talking about?! Dragonball has tons of heart! Loads!

Josh7289 wrote:

Erin, it's so sad that you had to write that intro.

Man, I hate anime fans.

Indeed. Seeing people jump all over Erin every week for her honest, informed opinions is getting very old, especially considering how Shelf Life is meant as far more of a "one person's opinion" column than normal reviews in the first place. Erin, you shouldn't feel the need to avoid stepping on certain readers's toes by throwing in disclaimers like that. There are some people out there who just can't seem to wrap their heads around the concept of reading what a particular reviewer has to say and then judging it accordingly against other sources, but I don't really know that such people are worth engaging in the first place. As for me, I'll keep happily reading your column and taking your views into account as long as you keep writing it. Smile

As for the one seemingly-controversial opinion in this week's column, I can't say whether or not I'd be squicked by what Popotan exhibits, since (for better or worse) I've become desensitized to quite a bit along those lines, but as I have no desire whatsoever to see that series, it doesn't really matter to me either way. However, I do think that there is something seriously troubling about the whole concept of an entire culture rising up around this sort of material. I don't have any problem with the content existing in and of itself: in the end, it's just lines on paper, and there's no connection at all to actual children being horribly harmed. If you get off on that sort of thing, you do your own thing. But when there's a massive and prevailing pattern of over-sexualization of young female characters in manga and anime, even in non-pornographic works, and when said pattern is strongly linked with the whole "otaku culture" as a whole...well, one has to stop and wonder about just how healthy the society that produced said material really is.

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