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fxg97873



Joined: 13 Dec 2004
Posts: 202
Location: Houston, TX

PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 12:19 am Reply with quote
I think the old Shelf Life would have had a rather different spin on the review for Clannad AS.
All Good Things...
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tuxedocat
Aria CompanyAria Company


Joined: 14 Dec 2009
Posts: 2041

PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 12:23 am Reply with quote
JairStout wrote:
In my worthless opinion, these "reviews" are terrible. It's like reading a glorified forum post (and that may even be too complimentary). At least Kimlinger, Martin, and the other reviewers here write with good prose. That is to say, they actually sound professional.

Erin, if you feel you must be use pejoratives and inject your petty morals into the reviews, then at least do so with class! The GG OVA is a "wank-fest?" Really? Smooth.... For the record, and unlike you, I have seen all of GG and plan on buying the OVA. Furthermore, I don't plan on masturbating to it, despite however much you think I should according to your supposed "morals."


Actually, I thought the moniker "wank-fest" was pretty darn funny, although I think she should have saved it for a review of something like Chu-Bra. I don't think it applies all that well to GSG (even though I haven't seen the OVA, I thought the series was very good).

Oh, and I don't plan on masturbating either. Everyone who has NO plans to masturbate, raise your non-busy hand.... Razz
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jenthehen



Joined: 23 Dec 2008
Posts: 451
Location: Cincinnati, Ohio

PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 12:39 am Reply with quote
tuxedocat wrote:
JairStout wrote:
In my worthless opinion, these "reviews" are terrible. It's like reading a glorified forum post (and that may even be too complimentary). At least Kimlinger, Martin, and the other reviewers here write with good prose. That is to say, they actually sound professional.

Erin, if you feel you must be use pejoratives and inject your petty morals into the reviews, then at least do so with class! The GG OVA is a "wank-fest?" Really? Smooth.... For the record, and unlike you, I have seen all of GG and plan on buying the OVA. Furthermore, I don't plan on masturbating to it, despite however much you think I should according to your supposed "morals."


Actually, I thought the moniker "wank-fest" was pretty darn funny, although I think she should have saved it for a review of something like Chu-Bra. I don't think it applies all that well to GSG (even though I haven't seen the OVA, I thought the series was very good).

Oh, and I don't plan on masturbating either. Everyone who has NO plans to masturbate, raise your non-busy hand.... Razz


Wait, you mean EVER? Wink
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Gewürtztraminer
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Joined: 14 Nov 2007
Posts: 841
Location: Texas - Its like whole other country.

PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 12:42 am Reply with quote
If the first Gunslinger girls was any kind of porn, it was gun porn. The guns and their results were all documented thoroughly. In season one the set piece for me was Henrietta with some (I am not a huge gun aficionado, so I do not know the exact model) modern submachine gun laying waste to an apartment of anti government forces (with help from a sniper (Rico I think been awhile)).

I was impressed by the detail given to the scene The way the submachine gun ruffled Henrietta's skirt, her use of short burst fire, the way she reloaded, and the snipers actions. The shell casings flying about.... Gun Porn.

What made the first season work, was the character development of the girls, definitely a feeling to shelter them, though they could and would kill you without much of a thought. Very by the books in its manipulation, but nonetheless powerful. The second season was a different beast, more story, less char, worse art IMO, overall a slight step down in my view. The ova is for the completists, though it does flesh out some of the handlers motivations.

Do not be upset with the bestowed wank worthy moniker unless you really get off on guns, and want your secret to remain safe.

I thought that comment was a bit off the mark.
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Bored_Ming



Joined: 17 Jun 2009
Posts: 238
Location: The Edge of ......

PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 2:02 am Reply with quote
Gewürtztraminer wrote:
If the first Gunslinger girls was any kind of porn, it was gun porn. The guns and their results were all documented thoroughly. In season one the set piece for me was Henrietta with some (I am not a huge gun aficionado, so I do not know the exact model) modern submachine gun laying waste to an apartment of anti government forces (with help from a sniper (Rico I think been awhile)).


Henrietta was using an FN P90 (Belgium). Ordell Robbie would say that an AK-47 would be a better choice for clearing a room. Rico was using a Dragunov SVD Sniper Rifle (Russian). Def gun pr0n.
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Prede



Joined: 17 Sep 2009
Posts: 377

PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 2:05 am Reply with quote
Gewürtztraminer wrote:
If the first Gunslinger girls was any kind of porn, it was gun porn. The guns and their results were all documented thoroughly. In season one the set piece for me was Henrietta with some (I am not a huge gun aficionado, so I do not know the exact model) modern submachine gun laying waste to an apartment of anti government forces (with help from a sniper (Rico I think been awhile)).

I was impressed by the detail given to the scene The way the submachine gun ruffled Henrietta's skirt, her use of short burst fire, the way she reloaded, and the snipers actions. The shell casings flying about.... Gun Porn.


Yes the first series was the gunlover's anime. Madhouse did an insane amount of research for that anime, and it clearly shows. I agree with that. People may be wanking, but it's not at the girls, it's at the guns Wink. It's Gun Porn 101.
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ANN_Bamboo
ANN Managing Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 3724
Location: The OC

PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 2:54 am Reply with quote
jenthehen wrote:

No ... just no. GSG is not a "moe show" - and I LOOOOVE moe. But it's not moe. Moe implies a sort of cutesy innocence and naiveness that is not present in GSG at all. Have you even watched the TRAILER for this show?


I don't think GSG is a moe show... but I do think the girls are moe. They *do* bring out feelings of protectiveness in me. They *do* make me go "Awwww" and want to hug them and make everything okay.

They may be well-trained crack cybernetic assassins, but at their very core, they are still little girls. That contrast is one of the best parts of the show. These girls can kill people ruthlessly and efficiently... but at the end of the day, they just want their Brothers to be proud of them. Their personal interactions with their handlers are more of a focal point of the series, rather than the killing and the action, I think.
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nargun



Joined: 29 Mar 2006
Posts: 346

PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 3:20 am Reply with quote
jenthehen wrote:
Oh, but apparently this is just some unrealistic fetishy thing that the creators of GSG made up out of their crazy heads.


I never said that!

Even if something exists in the real world -- and I'll note that while child soldiers do exist, dying-cyborg-little-girl-assassins-run-by-the-italian-government don't, last I heard, a difference you rather skim over -- that in-and-of-itself doesn't free you from accusations of fetishism.

I mean... urination. I do it, you do it. Real-world thing, no? But if I made a cartoon focussing entirely on urination at the expense of all other things... well, accusations of fetishism here-we-go. And justifiably so, you'd have to say.

Fetishism isn't about the object, it's about your response to that object. If your response is fetishistic, you're fetishising the object, even if the object Really Exists in the Really-real World. The vast majority of paraphillias are for real-world things, even.

So.

Fetishism manifests as a story that exists for no purpose other than depicting the item fetishised. Why this story? What's the purpose that telling this story rather than any other, what do we get from it? If you want to defend Gunslinger Girl against accusations of fetishism, you need to show that the story has some further purpose beyond showing the sad-girls-with-machine-guns [dying ones, even!].
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The Count



Joined: 22 Dec 2008
Posts: 253
Location: Milwaukee,WI

PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 4:04 am Reply with quote
I know other ANN staff members had explained why it's not necessary to have seen previous parts of a series when reviewing the latest entry of a show. But I can't help but feel that Erin's opinion on GSG would be different if season 1 and 2 had been watched.

I mean lines like.
Quote:
Jose makes Henrietta dress in clothes formerly owned by his dead sister in order to mess with his brother, Jean.
No he dressed her like that for himself (not in a pervy way) and not for Jean. Jose was just as affect by his sister death as Jean, he just tried to hold it in. That part was about him letting go of the negative feelings he had when he remembered his sister.

And
Quote:
The plot point about the dead sister is an excuse to dress Henrietta in a cute new outfit a la Princess Maker.
No this isn't something they just made up, if you watched all of both seasons you would know that there are hints about the dead sister throughout both seasons. In season one you don't see any flashbacks, but you wonder why Jose can turn from being a nice guy to being a killer without remorse when dealing with terrorist. And he looks pained for reasons that aren't explained. And season two gives you a much clearer picture of this through flashbacks.

I don't know I guess when dealing with the plot of an OVA that has two existing series I believe both of those should have been watched before critiquing the OVA.

As for El Cazador, wow a never thought anyone would chose it over Noir. But no two anime fans are the same.
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Kyogissun



Joined: 17 Aug 2007
Posts: 676

PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 6:22 am Reply with quote
I will give you that Nagisa's ambitions being non-existant beyond the family and a child are a bit inhuman, but as someone who looks to have a decent sized family (2 or 3 kids someday, I dunno...) I can understand the wants. What I don't understand is why they couldn't have her go into detail, explain what it is that makes that family happy for her... Instead, they do it through Tomoya which to me, seems to kind of soften the whole strength of it. It's not because he's a bad character, but because Tomoya's already got enough going on for himself.

Nagisa did need more depth but otherwise, the whole thing is just concluded brilliantly. Interesting though that you say you preferred the first season though, because while I do agree that it can work as its own independent story, surely those who invested that much time and had no idea a second season was on the way had to be like, 'But I want to see where their relationship goes!' But I guess you didn't feel that way about it Erin.

No big deal though, at least you appreciated the depth of it all and pointed it out.
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The Human Spider



Joined: 19 Jan 2007
Posts: 334

PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:20 am Reply with quote
[quote="Otaking09"]
Quote:

After that, the story spiraled down and down... Crying or Very sad I thought that After Story could redeem it all, but those initial 8(!!!) episodes really didn't help.


It was those random episodes about extremely minor characters that first killed the show for me. And I didn't really go for the whole domestic drama/tragedy thing--not excactly bad, but not what I'm interested in. I only finished the show because I liked the first season and I'm a Key fan.
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Otaking09



Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 611

PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 9:45 am Reply with quote
Quote:
I only finished the show because I liked the first season and I'm a Key fan.


I guess that was the reason for me as well... Well, that, and I wanted to see Kyou's arc.
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GWOtaku



Joined: 19 Jul 2003
Posts: 579

PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:13 am Reply with quote
JairStout wrote:


A most ironic accusation. In my post, you will notice that I came to the very same conclusion about her reviews! But apparently what I said was a prolonged insult. I'm curious, to stave off my coming observation that you are a hypocrite, would you care to explain why my post is a prolonged insult? (Ah, yet another irony!)


Unfortunately, your comeback relies on the silly idea that your post is completely equal to the quality of review, which suggests both a lack of attention to what was written and a severe lack of self-awareness. But all right, you ask me to eviscerate you in detail. I will oblige you one and only one response and lay everything out clearly. Another post like the above will be simply ignored.

Here is what you said.

Quote:
In my worthless opinion, these "reviews" are terrible. It's like reading a glorified forum post (and that may even be too complimentary). At least Kimlinger, Martin, and the other reviewers here write with good prose. That is to say, they actually sound professional.


The components of this are as follows: the writing is terrible, it lacks the prose that other writers possess, and it's unprofessional. That's it. Nowhere do you say why.

Quote:
Erin, if you feel you must be use pejoratives and inject your petty morals into the reviews, then at least do so with class! The GG OVA is a "wank-fest?" Really? Smooth.... For the record, and unlike you, I have seen all of GG and plan on buying the OVA. Furthermore, I don't plan on masturbating to it, despite however much you think I should according to your supposed "morals."


Here you simply scoff at her moral objection, which is limited to only a single episode. You waste some words boasting that you've seen more Gunslinger Girl than the writer has. The closest thing to an actual response is a "Really?", as if what is wrong with what she said is supposed to be somehow self-evident. You basically say that you simply disagree and then default to the would-be rebel attitude, declaring that you will watch and buy regardless of what she says. That's a useful attitude for patting yourself on the back and not much else.

So yeah, there is obviously no substance in your post. You insult her writing and then declare yourself a rebellious true fan. Not very impressive. It basically boils down to "you don't like that episode! Well I do, so screw you!"

In contrast, let's look at some of what the column actually said--the column you claim I am a hypocrite for not condemning as a prolonged insult.

Quote:
I have nothing against Gunslinger Girl as a series, from what I've seen, which is admittedly only the first few episodes. In fact, I like the idea of elementary school girls carrying large automatic weapons. I like the sci-fi elements. The Italian music and the lush settings add a really classy, unique touch. I appreciate the complicated relationships the girls have with their handlers, who are at once coworkers, older brothers and father figures.


A positive paragraph in a column you insist is a prolonged insult. It's right there, unambiguously in the open!

Quote:
So although the Gunslinger Girl OVA contains all of the positive qualities above, I didn't enjoy it as much as I might like the series, given the chance.


So it has good qualities from the first series. You and the writer both like the original series! Then there's the phrase "I didn't enjoy it as much..." Not "I hate it." Not "only lolicon creeps could ever enjoy this OVA." And so you are proven wrong. Again.

Then there's a paragraph about the bad subtitles for the extras on the disc. All this is substance, not blind invective.

Quote:
The entire episode feels like a gross double date between 20-something men and 10-year-old girls.

I found this episode of Gunslinger Girls offensive. I didn't think the rest of Gunslinger Girl was upsetting, just this one episode.


There you go. This is reasonable. It might be wrong and one might disagree with it (I very well might when I see it), but it's reasonable. Perhaps there is a valid, understandable, well-written reason for Jose to have Henrietta wear his sister's old clothes. But if there is, you sure didn't offer one. You didn't care to offer one. You were interested in insults. She was interested in offering honest, pithy reasons for why she didn't think it was up to the standards of what she's seen in GSG's TV series.
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CBongo



Joined: 17 Feb 2006
Posts: 25
Location: Minneapolis, MN

PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:28 am Reply with quote
jenthehen wrote:


I think what bothered me more was in the flashback scene where it shows Nagisa reaching in to hand Tomoya soap in the bathroom and closing her eyes / acting all embarrassed - which clearly happened after they were married. That's just not normal in the real world. I can see them being a little shy for their first time ... but hadn't they been married awhile? What were they waiting for? Did they only sleep together once? I don't get this unrealistic portrayal of marriage / relationships here, Key! lol

They were never even shown kissing ... which was strange to me.


Just another example of the differences between American and Japanese culture (the Japanese folks tend to be a LOT less... "expressive" about their feelings, both in public and private).

By Western standards this portrayal indeed seems downright bizarre, but to someone from Japan it's going to seem a lot closer to "normal".
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TC-man



Joined: 13 Feb 2009
Posts: 115

PostPosted: Tue Jan 12, 2010 11:29 am Reply with quote
Prede wrote:
Good reviews this week. Nice job, keep up the good work. I really like the comparisons you make to live action and other anime. It's something you do really well, and helps me (if I've seen said series/movie lol Razz).

Although I haven't seen the Gunslinger Girl OVAs yet (got it for Christmas along with the second season), I kind of think you may have gone overboard a bit with that. The main point of the franchise seems to be strongly set against such notions, at least from what I've seen( the entire first series and the bit of the second series). spoiler[ It seems to completely ignore anything sexual/sensual, perverted, etc with the girls, and instead focuses on what real young children with guns would be like. It takes a more realistic aproach to the genre, and shows just how "icky" and disturbing this can be. Yes it supposed to be a little "creepy" that some old guy is taking care of a little innocent girl, but it never even for a second does anything which I would ever consider objectional with that. it's mroe there to point out how creepy that could be in real life, by exaggerating things. The girls are very young, they all have very screwed up pasts, and they all have awkward and odd relationships with thier handlers, although each relationship is very different. Are any of the handlers good people? Because some treat the girls ok, good, or at least with some respect. yet at the end of the day, does it matter? Because the "nice guy" and the guy who hits the girl all use their children to kill other HUMAN BEINGS.

It's dissecting the "girls with guns" genre, while still sticking very close to it's roots and being very dark, yet still uplifting. It's either the best girls with guns series out there, or the best deconstruction peice of the genre Wink . Still I don't think it could really be "offensive" . Then again having a beach episode is such an odd choice for the series. Kind of questionable. But that's the kind of content the original series seemed to ignore, or was totally outright against. Still to just outright call certian episodes "wank material"... Them's might strong words. I must disagree with you very strongly on that. of course my opinion may change once I actually see that episode.

This again makes me ask the question. Are deconstruction peices for those who dislike said genre, or actually for the fans of the genre? Laughing Think about it Wink . ]


Anyway glad you liked El Cazador! It's one of my new favorites for sure. And I've said it 100 times, but I guess once more won't hurt. it's not an action show, and it's not plot driven. It's a drama that's very character driven. So if your looking for an exciting, well thought out plot, and non-stop action, this is not the show. But if you want some great character devolpment, and a fun series this is it. The character interactions are the best part of the show. Really Ellis and Nadie play off each other perfectly. And the setting is great. I prefur characters over plot sometimes, and this show handled that very well. And the plot that is there, is hardly poorly written, it's just not the main focus of the show.

DerekTheRed: I'm like 99% sure Nadie is Mexican. Ellis probally isn't though, but for me that remaisn to be seen. Only watched the first boxset so far.


I pretty much agree with you on this one; Gunslinger Girl is a pretty serious anime with a dark atmosphere with psychological elements in the plot and certainly the show has taboo themes like using child soldiers, assasinations etc.; on some "areas" you can compare Gunslinger Girl with Blade Runner, since the girls does have spoiler[an expiration date] and the show mostly emphasizes on the girls' decisions & questions/dilemmas about love, lifes and deaths.

And what OVA is Erin watching? The 2 OVA episodes (Gunslinger Girls -Il Teatrino-) that I have watched only have a beach scene of 1 - 2 minutes which is almost at the end of the second episode of the OVA. The relationship between the girls and the cyborg handlers are pretty much sister/big brother or even daughter/father in the entire second OVA episode (with a bit of "slice of life" feel + a bit supernatural). Wank material? There's no fanservice at all, the girls are just wearing bikini which is not all that revealing (and that for the last 1 - 2 minutes before the ending of the second episode); the dialogues are quite serious in some part of the episodes too. But suddenly it's wank material? That's ridiculous?!
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