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NEWS: Handley's Sentencing for 'Obscene' Manga Delayed


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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 12439

PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:06 pm Reply with quote
I guess if it takes 'em that long to decide his fate, it just shows how corrupt the court really is, and how it's about making an example of him, rather than it is about serving justice, eh? Because if it were a situation directly related to Megan's Law, it'd be open-and-shut and by now. BTW, now that corporations are considered entities worthy of "free speech", doesn't the fact that Handley bought his book from one make his actions legal? Rolling Eyes
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Josh7289



Joined: 27 Aug 2005
Posts: 1252
Location: New Jersey

PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:12 pm Reply with quote
GATSU wrote:
I guess if it takes 'em that long to decide his fate, it just shows how corrupt the court really is, and how it's about making an example of him, rather than it is about serving justice, eh? Because if it were a situation directly related to Megan's Law, it'd be open-and-shut and by now. BTW, now that corporations are considered entities worthy of "free speech", doesn't the fact that Handley bought his book from one make his actions legal? Rolling Eyes

Not if these materials are still considered obscene. As long as they're obscene, no one has a right to them.
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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:17 pm Reply with quote
Gonna open up a whole can of worms with porn in general in that case.
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egoist
Pirate KingPirate King


Joined: 20 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:17 pm Reply with quote
And here we go, another 10 pages with people condemning the man.
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hissatsu01



Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 809
Location: NYC

PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:22 pm Reply with quote
GATSU wrote:
stuff

Nothing you said follows logically. The legal system always moves slowly (often excruciatingly so), regardless of the outcome or any "corruption." As for corporations' legal status as individuals and their free speech rights and the selling of "obscene" material, once again no logical connection. I can by stolen goods, and all parties involved have a right to free speech. That doesn't make buying stolen goods legal.

As for Handley's case, it's disappointing that he plead guilty in the first place. Yes he's in a difficult position, and probably stressed the fudge out. But he's screwed anyway. By pleading guilty he threw away any chance of coming out with a positive outcome, and their are valid arguments against it.

As far as I'm concerned, regardless of how gross or offensive a drawing is, it shouldn't be illegal. I'm not too worried about the harm done to ink or pixels, nor am I concerned that the people that enjoy these things might be "creepy." Being creepy isn't illegal and acting on any such desires is already illegal. Neither my morality nor anyone else's should legislate morality for what is in essence thought crime.

Josh7289 wrote:

Not if these materials are still considered obscene. As long as they're obscene, no one has a right to them.

Who is arbiter of what is obscene? And why should the obscene be outlawed? There are plenty of things I find obscene, but I should not have the power to make them disappear.


Last edited by hissatsu01 on Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:20 pm; edited 4 times in total
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BellosTheMighty



Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Posts: 767

PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:22 pm Reply with quote
egoist wrote:
And here we go, another 10 pages with people condemning the man.


Actually, I think we're pretty much tapped out on this. It was old news months ago, I'd be surprised if we got even five pages of Talkback FAIL this time...
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Jaymie



Joined: 18 Jun 2009
Posts: 905

PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 4:56 pm Reply with quote
egoist wrote:
And here we go, another 10 pages with people condemning the man.


More like another 10 pages of Handley's fellow [don't insult or generalize] condemning the US Legal system.

[Mod Edit: Try to make your point without using insults, attacks, and generalizations of this nature please. - Keonyn]
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Hannish Lightning



Joined: 13 May 2008
Posts: 368

PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:05 pm Reply with quote
Why would he want to read that kind of manga in the first place?
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GATSU



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 12439

PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:18 pm Reply with quote
hissatsu: Perhaps, but the guy already pleaded no contest. The fact that they're already considering something even more draconian than the norm seems political, in the "get tough on crime, real or imaginary" sense, to me. And, unlike theft, the distinction between obscenity vs. free speech is important, given that up until 13 years ago, you could go to jail just for renting out "The Tin Drum".
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Nemo_N



Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Posts: 258

PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:19 pm Reply with quote
hissatsu01 wrote:
Josh7289 wrote:

Not if these materials are still considered obscene. As long as they're obscene, no one has a right to them.

Who is arbiter of what is obscene? And why should the obscene be outlawed? Their are plenty of things I find obscene, but I should not have the power to make them disappear.

Sadly, many think that what is illegal is deemed so because of how much people dislike it.

A stupid way to define the illegal, I know.
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egoist
Pirate KingPirate King


Joined: 20 Jun 2008
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:19 pm Reply with quote
Hannish Lightning wrote:
Why would he want to read that kind of manga in the first place?

Perhaps to contain his urges toward real little girls? Whatever it was, little to none damage would be done to real kids.
This is what a real criminal is, and this is what real damage to kids is.


Last edited by egoist on Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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R315r4z0r



Joined: 30 Aug 2007
Posts: 507

PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:21 pm Reply with quote
The way I see it:

-If there is no victim, there is no crime.
-If there IS a victim, but the suspect is not connected to them via illegal or maniacal behavior, they should not be charged with any crime.

Basically, no one has the right to tell someone else what is considered "obscene." It's like a court evolved form of playground arguments! Fully grown men and women, acting like toddlers, complaining they don't like what that other kid has.

It's not criminal justice. It's not even logical.
What it is is immaturity, a waste of tax payers money, and an excruciating amount of embarrassment for this poor man.


Seriously? "You're going to jail because I don't like your comic book?" What the hell is that about?!
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Nemo_N



Joined: 12 Dec 2006
Posts: 258

PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:27 pm Reply with quote
A couple of posts by Wendy Kaminer (someone better informed than your average anime forum poster):

Child Porn, Animal Cruelty Porn, and the Right to Imagine

Sex, Violence, and Individual Liberty

Wendy Kaminer is a former national board member of the ACLU.
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hissatsu01



Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 809
Location: NYC

PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:31 pm Reply with quote
Jaymie wrote:

More like another 10 pages of Handley's fellow pedophiles condemning the US Legal system.

Supporting freedom of expression means supporting the expression of things you personally find abhorrent. As long as no person is being harmed, it doesn't matter. As soon as a person is harmed it stops being a matter of expression. Handley's prosecution is tantamount to being prosecuted for thought crime. If you support it, shouldn't you also support prosecuting people who think about killing someone? Certainly killing is wrong.

Hannish Lightning wrote:

Why would he want to read that kind of manga in the first place?

Why do people read/watch ultra-violent manga/anime? Perhaps it would be better to lock them all up before they commit assault or worse.
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Haterater



Joined: 30 Apr 2006
Posts: 981

PostPosted: Mon Jan 25, 2010 5:55 pm Reply with quote
Not to mention too many people still think anime can be nothing but "porn" or "tentacle rape" only. Now, what if those people find whatever anime you were watching was to their thinking even though you know it has none of that in it. It can snowball that way.

What gets me in general is that these are just imaginary stuff. Waste of many people's time, money, etc going after him when we could be going after people actually harming real people.
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