Forum - View topicNEWS: Handley's Sentencing for 'Obscene' Manga Delayed
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Mohawk52
 Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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rinmackie
 Posts: 1040 Location: in a van! down by the river! |
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You're right, it's a witch hunt. The US and I believe your country as well, is in the midst of a pedophile scare. Speaking of which, I recently read that a child abuse group in Florida is issuing a sex offender advisory against the Who's Pete Townshend. He's scheduled to perform at the Super Bowl during half time. As I understand it, he got caught with child porn years ago but he claimed he was using it to do research for his autobiography. (He was abused as a child.) The charges were dropped but he was on the UK sex offender registry for 5 years. In America, once you get on this list, it's usually for life unless you're proven innocent which can be nearly impossible. Even worse, you don't even have to have looked at child porn or molested a child to get on it. |
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Animehermit
 Posts: 964 Location: The Argama |
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exactly, once your on the list your on it for life, a lot of people don't see the downside to this system but its definitely there, in fact i actually know someone whose on the list for a totally non-pedophile act and the backlash form it actually prevents her from working. I've also heard stories how people who were caught streaking ended up on the list for life, which is ludicrous. |
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Mohawk52
Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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rinmackie
Posts: 1040 Location: in a van! down by the river! |
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Well, at least Pete Townshend still has a career and can still live anywhere he wants, at least in England. But Chris Handley won't be so lucky. This offense will likely make it hard for him to get a job. He might even have to move; though I don't see why since he didn't touch a child or look at real child porn. Don't get me wrong; child molesting and child porn are serious crimes and should be punished accordingly. Put when people are punished and stigmatized for things like looking at fictional, youngish-looking drawings or being nude in public, then I think we've gone too far.
In other words, we need to restore sanity and use common sense instead of this knee-jerk reactionism. But the media has scared us into thinking pedophiles are everywhere and that things that aren't really a threat to children need to be dealt with as severely as we do actual child rape. |
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Navak
Posts: 88 |
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Iowa is "pretty conservative" based on, or relative to, what? Also, if this was actually being tried under Iowa state law, somehow because him owning this stuff is legal as long as he doesn't sell/display/whatnot to minors, there are additional items already built into Iowa's obscenity law which do not match the federal items. e.g. considering author's intent However, this is a federal case. Also, one doesn't need to act on anything to be a pedophile under either the DSM or WHO guidelines. One doesn't even need to be an "adult". |
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rinmackie
Posts: 1040 Location: in a van! down by the river! |
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I'm not trying to bash Iowa. I live in a fairly conservative state myself. While I'm no legal expect, it's looks to me like they invoked a federal law because it was the only way they could convict him. As for the whole 'well, he might do something" argument; based on what I've read, there's no indication he will. And as for fantasies, well, it doesn't seem right to convict someone for thought crimes.
So, the definition of a pedophile is someone who not only molests children but also someone who simply thinks about doing it? I guess if I think about murdering someone, that make me a murderer. Now that I've made my point, can this thread be locked or at least, die? Probably not.
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CCSYueh
 Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
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1-I assume in the courtroom they would have the items in question so we'd know what's being debated. This forum doesn't know. I almost suspect the names are being withheld because a lot of us would be shocked they're being considered child porn, but that's just my pessimistic side poking out. 2-I've always assumed England is like America on the way our judicial systems run since we got it from you, but here jurors are interviewed on their ability to be unbiased-to provide a judgement based only on what they see in the court which is why that community standards test IS important. Larger communities are usually seen as more liberal & the Midwest & South are seen as more conservative than the West or the Northeast. 7 books out of 6000 is what we've seen tossed around which means 1 out of every 857 volumes. The detective in me suggests a pedophile would have a larger percentage of the collection in the child porn area. In the past his atty brought up postal inspectors saw the boyish ukes in some yaoi manga, but there apprears to be no yaoi manga on the table. This suggests the yaoi was amongst the stuff that was thrown out, but might have been part of what got Handley in trouble on the street-level (whoever searched his home confiscated it, but those items were returned)
I am not now nor have I ever been a lawyer. I work in law enforcement with people who have been convicted of felonies making sure they do what the court has ordered them to do (supervision). Our job is to see the client pays that debt to society & goes & sins no more. Creating criminals doesn't protect the community. Were this guy to wind up on my caseload yes, I would enforce the court orders, but he would likely be deemed a very low risk level unless there is stuff in his past suggesting he is some sort of threat to the community. Most people can have a drink & live their lives. Some of the people I supervise have an alcohol problem & thus are ordered not to drink while being supervised so they won't be a threat to society. My point with Handley is he doesn't seem to be a threat to the community. If someone drew a comicbook variation of Little Red Riding Hood with the Wolf being a pedo & Red being a little 10 yr old who doesn't listen to warnings not to talk to strangers, I can't see how someone owning a copy of said book should it portray Red being deflowered or eaten should be labeled a pedophile because the horror of the wolf's actions would potentially be used to justify a harsh punishment (dismemberment by the woodsman). Sex offenders have to register every year within 5 days of their birthday for the rest of their lives. I have seen about 3 people get it overturned because it wasn't what it seemed (I recall one was the teen daughter claimed the guy did it because mom told her to so mom could divorce the guy & get custody or some such convoluted story). Arson is also for life, but only when they move do they need to re-register. Felony Drug conviction clients register for the length of their supervision plus 5 yrs [/quote] Last edited by CCSYueh on Tue Feb 02, 2010 1:17 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Navak
Posts: 88 |
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I'm just curious how Iowa rates as "pretty conservative". Yes, on the "conservative" or "right" side of the spectrum, Iowa has a very vocal evangelical movement but it is by no means state dominant. They used the federal law because yeah, that was the only way to get him, but more importantly they wanted to test it out and see if it survived in court. Unfortunately, not just for Handley but for everyone else, we're still left in the murk about how this would have actually played out in this circuit. Yes...it's the sexual attraction to pre-pubescents not acting on the sexual attraction that defines pedophilia in the mental disorder realm. People can molest pre-pubescents and not be pedophiles. Being a pedophile is not illegal. However, the line (age/puberty/etc...) isn't exactly well defined logically so you just go with what the book says basically. Which could result in an 11 and 12 year old in a relationship and one of them is a pedophile. Common usage describes an act, not the motivation for the act and generally refers to age/age of consent and looks which is just ignorance. I was just clarifying since people use pedophile incorrectly quite a bit. Owning books doesn't really indicate much and I find there are a lot of reasons to own books like this, especially within a collector sphere. Regardless, accusations of this nature especially when coupled with the gross ignorance displayed by the government agents e.g. GaoGaiGar banner being negative/porn related, screws him over. It doesn't need to be true, the accusation just needs to be made once, however baseless, and he is tainted for life. |
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CCSYueh
Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
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Most people think of California as liberal, but look where Prop 8 got us. We have some liberal strongholds, but also conservative. San Diego actually gave McCain the majority vote, but overall the state went to Obama.
Couple that with the fact you're talking about "protecting the children" & reason inches closer to the exit door. When children are involved, lynch first, apologize later isn't the uncommon reaction. |
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Mohawk52
Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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CCSYueh
Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
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Ah, but there's the rub. Handley copped a plea rather than go to trial at his attorney's recommendation. A jury never saw the material, just the District Attorney, the people who searched & confiscated it, etc. The material was never put on trial. So no, it has never made it to the hands of "the people" to pass judgement.
Ok. We really don't have jury trials all that much. Most of my clients plead out which saves time & money. Only a handful go to jury
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That's my child-of-the-'60's revolutionary side. I finally picked up The Prisoner & plan to re-watch it for the first time in probably a decade. I've always remembered that trial they put 6 thru which debated the various forms of rebellion. I came out with an understanding there's a time for law & a time to protest. |
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Mohawk52
Posts: 8202 Location: England, UK |
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