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ANNCast - Don't hate the Cosplayer, hate the game


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Splitter



Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 1169
Location: Knockin' on Heaven's Door

PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:25 pm Reply with quote
I'll review it on the whole later, but I'm finally getting around to watching Goodfellas for the first time (coincidence?), so for now, I listened to the Hanamaru portion, if only because I'm curious what evidence you have for it dividing anime fans.

*listens*

Ahaha... once again, Zac (and Bamboo?), you demonstrate you only see anime as a genre and not a medium. You think we have to either like Anime A or Anime B and can't like both. C'mon, guys, leave the animation age ghetto already.
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Zac
ANN Executive Editor


Joined: 05 Jan 2002
Posts: 6808
Location: Snake Mountain Cocktail Lounge

PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:35 pm Reply with quote
Splitter wrote:

Ahaha... once again, Zac (and Bamboo?), you demonstrate you only see anime as a genre and not a medium. You think we have to either like Anime A or Anime B and can't like both. C'mon, guys, leave the animation age ghetto already.


When did we say people can't like both? None of the anime fans I know who became a fan in the late 90s are in to the super cutsey stuff. It's an observation.

You and I have argued a lot and I get the sense you don't really listen for context or nuance, just the bits that reinforce whatever you already thought of me.
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penguintruth



Joined: 08 Dec 2004
Posts: 5867
Location: Penguinopolis

PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:44 pm Reply with quote
I have absolutely no interest in Hanamaru Kindergarten, beyond thinking it's humorous that Seiji Mizushima is directing such a lighthearted show when Fullmetal Alchemist and Gundam 00 could be so heavy-handed. But I don't care much for cute little animals either, really. Unless, of course, they're penguins.
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mglittlerobin



Joined: 28 Aug 2008
Posts: 743

PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 8:48 pm Reply with quote
penguintruth wrote:
I have absolutely no interest in Hanamaru Kindergarten, beyond thinking it's humorous that Seiji Mizushima is directing such a lighthearted show when Fullmetal Alchemist and Gundam 00 could be so heavy-handed. But I don't care much for cute little animals either, really. Unless, of course, they're penguins.

Ditto that. But Seji Mizushima is a good director, but this a strange choise for him. But I love what he did with FMA.
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Jimbobaka



Joined: 25 Feb 2010
Posts: 37
Location: The city near Magic Mountain

PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:06 pm Reply with quote
I'm a long time fan/reader of the site, but first time poster on this forum (just found out this bbs wasn't blocked at work).

I took a listen to your Hanamaru Kindergarten bit on the ANNCast and can relate to being a fan around the late 90's. I remember watching Tenchi Muyo Universe VHS copies at my friend's house and formally introducing me to the word "anime."

With the mindset I had back then, I probably would have completely shrugged this show off if my pre-teen self was exposed to this series. I was also cracking up because I think it was Zac who mentioned that this show caters to 20-something year olds. I'm 23 and really enjoy this show. I suppose one of the main reasons I love this show though is because I enjoy working with kids and am currently working on getting my teaching degree. In the meantime I work part-time at an after-school daycare running the computer lab. So I suppose this show does cater to my tastes in a way.

Why I was especially interested in your discussion of this particular anime is because I run an Anime Club at my job. Like I've stated before, I head the computer lab and every Friday I have a 90 minute time slot to screen Anime for all the children. My boss is okay with violence, but of course anything with any heavy sexual content isn't allowed.

I have kids in my club with ages ranging from 8 to as old as 16. As one of my rules to the club, I try to show at least 1 series in Japanese with subtitles and the other containing English dubbing. After finishing Azumanga Diaoh, my members told me that they really enjoyed this series and was looking for something with a similar tone. I was tempted to showing "Lucky Star" in both English and Japanese to them, but there are some members in my club that are brand new to anime and could get lost in all the references. So upon your sites review of the first 5 episodes of Hanamaru Kindergarten, I decided to give this series a shot.

I remember to screen episodes prior to popping it in the projector for the club just in case there's any blatent fanservice. The kids don't normally enjoy it when I play something in Japanese, especially the younger crowd because they have to focus their attention more on reading than on watching but what I found out is that they absolutely loved this show.

The younger crowd was a bit lost on the whole "Marriage" issue but ate up all of Hiragi's costumes and Anzu's energy. I was seriously surprised when they asked to watch more episodes after the 2nd episode concluded (they were laughing uncontrollably at the ending sequence). I pray that the show maintains it's innocence and doesn't play too much on the "Anzu has the hots for teacher" aspect of the show. I've already attempted reading Kodomo no Jikan and now I'm mentally begging Gainax not to take that road.

I have yet to view the next 3 episodes so I can only cross my fingers. What I just wanted to point out was that it seems that this generation of anime fans (at least the ones at my work) seem to gobble up series like Hanamaru Kindergarten. Hopefully my small window into this new generation of anime fans was interesting and insightful to both hosts of this week's ANNCast, Zac and Bamboo.

So in the dividing line between the ones that enjoy Hanamaru Kindergarten and the fans that cringe at its cuteness, my small batch of Otaku and I are on the side that would jump at the chance to go down the Hanamaru Slide.

Sorry for the long post, there's really nothing to do at work around this time since there's barely anyone in the computer lab. I look forward to screening new anime tomorrow and ushering in the new age of Otaku!

I also look forward to attending the ANN panel at this Year's AnimeExpo. Hopefully I can win one of those prizes you guys give away!
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Megiddo



Joined: 24 Aug 2005
Posts: 6151
Location: IL

PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:26 pm Reply with quote
I agree that Hanamaru is not going to appeal to all, but I do enjoy it quite a bit as just something cute and entertaining to watch. Anyway, I'd much rather that Gainax works on shows like Hanamaru Kindergarten than He is my Master (which Gainax actually made 10 years after Evangelion).

Give me cuteness over brainless fanservice any day.
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Quark



Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 682
Location: British Columbia, Canada

PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:26 pm Reply with quote
Zac wrote:
Splitter wrote:

Ahaha... once again, Zac (and Bamboo?), you demonstrate you only see anime as a genre and not a medium. You think we have to either like Anime A or Anime B and can't like both. C'mon, guys, leave the animation age ghetto already.


When did we say people can't like both? None of the anime fans I know who became a fan in the late 90s are in to the super cutsey stuff. It's an observation.


Not trying to disagree with you for disagreements sake, since...well, it's pointless. I just want to speak up as an anime fan who started out watching anime in the late 90's, who has since moved on to watching moe and super cute shows. They're certainly not my favourite, I do prefer more plot-heavy stuff. But every once in a while, I just want to watch something that makes me go "awwww"

Edit: Just have to add that my love for cute ends as soon as they start sexualizing prepubescents. So stuff like Strike Witches and Kodomo Jikan are out. Stuff like Kanon, or Lucky Star is A-OK.
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Charred Knight



Joined: 29 Sep 2008
Posts: 3022

PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:44 pm Reply with quote
Zac wrote:
Splitter wrote:

Ahaha... once again, Zac (and Bamboo?), you demonstrate you only see anime as a genre and not a medium. You think we have to either like Anime A or Anime B and can't like both. C'mon, guys, leave the animation age ghetto already.


When did we say people can't like both? None of the anime fans I know who became a fan in the late 90s are in to the super cutsey stuff. It's an observation.

You and I have argued a lot and I get the sense you don't really listen for context or nuance, just the bits that reinforce whatever you already thought of me.


I have seen a few at Toonzone, though I will say that if someone only likes one part of a genre than I would hardly call them anime fans. I wouldn't call someone who only watches Blockbuster movies to be a fan of movies.

For example while I am a huge fan of mecha series, I am also a fan of shonen series, and more adult action series such as Cowboy Beebop, and Outlaw Star, and even some shojo, and several of the more ecchi series especially Ken Akamatsu's work.
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hakojo



Joined: 18 Sep 2009
Posts: 208
Location: NE Ohio.

PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 9:47 pm Reply with quote
penguintruth wrote:
I have absolutely no interest in Hanamaru Kindergarten, beyond thinking it's humorous that Seiji Mizushima is directing such a lighthearted show when Fullmetal Alchemist and Gundam 00 could be so heavy-handed.


Mizushima's better stuff tends to be his goofier work - I will love Shaman King until the end of time (I prefer his spin on it to the manga, really), and Oh! Edo Rocket was extremely enjoyable as well. The fact that he constantly uses all of my favorite actors doesn't hurt either Anime smile
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PBsallad



Joined: 19 Dec 2009
Posts: 336
Location: Phoenix

PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:03 pm Reply with quote
Over all this was a good show. It was fun listening about the whole cosplay thing. I've never been to a con let alone dress up as my favorite anime character. So I never really gave that whole spectrum of the fandom much thought. Learning about what a brand manager does was cool too.
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Jimbobaka



Joined: 25 Feb 2010
Posts: 37
Location: The city near Magic Mountain

PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:39 pm Reply with quote
Quark wrote:


Not trying to disagree with you for disagreements sake, since...well, it's pointless. I just want to speak up as an anime fan who started out watching anime in the late 90's, who has since moved on to watching moe and super cute shows. They're certainly not my favourite, I do prefer more plot-heavy stuff. But every once in a while, I just want to watch something that makes me go "awwww"

Edit: Just have to add that my love for cute ends as soon as they start sexualizing prepubescents. So stuff like Strike Witches and Kodomo Jikan are out. Stuff like Kanon, or Lucky Star is A-OK.


I agree with you on that note Quark. For me, I feel as though these shows sort of play on my maternal instincts. I plan on having a family in the future so shows like Hanamaru Kindergarten make me look forward to being a father.

I'm pretty sure that's not the studio's intention, but I guess something to think about when looking into why these shows appeal to the audience it's being aimed at. I try not to simply tack on the whole "moe" factor into my anime fandom. If I just enjoyed that idea then I'd have a whole lot more figures (and even more of the racier ones).

Hopefully more innocent and carefree shows get more buzz around the Anime superhighway.
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The Count



Joined: 22 Dec 2008
Posts: 264
Location: Milwaukee,WI

PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 10:51 pm Reply with quote
Charred Knight wrote:
I have seen a few at Toonzone, though I will say that if someone only likes one part of a genre than I would hardly call them anime fans. I wouldn't call someone who only watches Blockbuster movies to be a fan of movies.

For example while I am a huge fan of mecha series, I am also a fan of shonen series, and more adult action series such as Cowboy Beebop, and Outlaw Star, and even some shojo, and several of the more ecchi series especially Ken Akamatsu's work.
But that doesn't mean you HAVE to watch and like all genres in order to be a fan. Are you saying if you have a dislike for certain aspect that a genre uses often you have to A. deal with it and watch it and force yourself to like it so you can be classifies as a "fan", or B. realize you won't like it and don't watch it and have your "fan" classification stripped?

Good show, I was thinking that I should skip listen this week (which would be only the second time I've done so) because I have very little interest in cosplay. But Charlene got to some points that made this very interesting. I also like listen to fans like myself who can enjoy shows and parts of anime that are often mocked, and Charlene came across as that kind of fan. I also love hearing from people that like Rin as much as me. And its my hope that if successful it will lead to licenses of similar themed shows like Canaan and Garden of Sinners.
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EmperorBrandon
Encyclopedia Editor


Joined: 04 Oct 2002
Posts: 1401
Location: Springfield, MO

PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:16 pm Reply with quote
I started in 2000, so just a little late to be considered "starting in the late 90's", but some of my earlier favorites like Cardcaptor Sakura and Magic User's Club are series from the late 90's and have cute character designs. I've been into the kind of series from the beginning because there's a lot to like for me when it's focused on an amusing group of characters that I can come back to and enjoy again and again. With the good ones that I really like, there tends to be a good deal of comedic and emotional value to the series, and the actual cuteness is really only one small part of why I like it (it's even the case for Hanamaru Kindergarten for me). There are plenty of series with cutesy characters designs I don't like at all. I have tried plenty of series that are not typically considered "cute" (and not in genres I usually try) like Outlaw Star (one of my oldest favorites), Paranoia Agent (few years ago), and Baccano (very recent), that I really enjoy, for some of the same reasons I like some of the "cute" series even. I'm not particularly offended by the fact that some people don't like cute series like Hanamaru Kindergarten. I am annoyed, however, when people generalize the series or its fans (and the fans of any given series are never a completely homogeneous bunch) based on what seems like a limited understanding of what the series is about, particularly if they haven't even watched it at all.

Last edited by EmperorBrandon on Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:19 pm; edited 2 times in total
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wandering-dreamer



Joined: 21 Jan 2008
Posts: 1711

PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:17 pm Reply with quote
I will say, as a cosplayer who cosplays because she loves to sew, I get really freaked out by people who randomly come up to me and talk about the show because I'm freaked out by anyone who randomly comes up to me and starts talking. Plus, it's not that people lose their manners during cons, but going back to that "teenaged weekend party thing," some people just go crazy there and I've just felt uncomfortable there. But that's just me, maybe other people don't have semi-crazies come up to them.

And hmm, she seemed awfully close mouthed about what else she was working on to be released later this year, perhaps we'll get more licensing announcements soon? Con season is starting up and there is a lot of the year left to release in.
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silver_deeds



Joined: 08 Jan 2010
Posts: 60

PostPosted: Thu Feb 25, 2010 11:21 pm Reply with quote
Great show this week. It's been a while since we've heard Bamboo. Very Happy

I think cosplay is such a big part of being a fan weather you do it or not. I'm actually interested in hearing that hour of Charlene Ingram's view of how it's changed over the years. Great idea making that one of the topics for ANNcast. I've always heard of people being Brand Managers but never understood their part in the process, so that was cool, too!

And I prefer cute, cuddly animals over loud, exploring kindergartners any day...
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