Forum - View topicEroge/Hentai/Lolicon/Shotacon linked to paraphilia.
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@
 Posts: 3498 Location: IN your nightmares |
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RHachicho
 Posts: 897 Location: Essex, UK |
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Hmm I would point out that I didn't necessarily say that religion is the only way of engendering morality. However it has been our primary one throught history and it's loss has sent society sprawling for meaning. And when you look for meaning you can often come to some very unpleasant and immoral conclusions. Such people pretend a facade of morality but in secret have given it up for materialism. This I feel is pretty tragic. That's all I really wanted to convey not that the "loss of religion" is directly responsible for moral decay but the loss of paradigm and aimlessness it engenders .. is.
Not only that but the loss of the sanctity of marriage has resulted in the insecuirity of the family unit. Which is resulting in cultural decay. The Family is the mechanism through which our culture and civilisation is passed to the next generation and with so many families now living with 1 or no parents in situations where the kids hardly spend time with their parents. Means the kids do their best at raising themselves but increasingly the guiding hands of real parents is being missed. To be honest we only have ourselves to blame for this though. After womens lib we basically labelled anyone who stayed at home to raise the kids a loser without a real job. Whearas we should have been handing them a frikkin medal. As a result salaries are almost set with the expectation that in a household both mother and father will work. So they have to. Don't get me wrong I don't care wether the man or woman does it but raising kids is about more than putting food on their tables and paying their school fees and doctor's bills. Sometimes people underestimate the repurcussions of changing the entire base of a culture. For thousands of years our belief in god and his divine punishment/reward scheme has braught war and death and atrocity beyond belief between nations and religions. But to our culture it braught stability and a sense of our places in the grand scheme of things. Without it society has turned inward. Cannibalising itself in every individuals rampant desire to own everything. The best at this become huge corporations which tie up billions of the nations wealth in pointless waste. And create mass produced planned obsolescence junk for the bottom feeders to keep on munching. Hence for now the paradigm of society is "What I Own" that is what most use to define themselves. And that's tragic. I will make it clear that I do NOT believe in a re enstatement of religion. No one would believe it now anyway. What people need is something to believe in that they can honestly devote their lives to. I don't care wether this is a spiritual or moral code. But society needs a focus that has nothing to do with money. Indeed perhaps that is why religion eventually failed. It stopped being about spirituality and started being about money. When who knows but meh that's a just a matter of curioisity 
That's just my own opinion tho
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LaFreccia
 Posts: 324 |
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RHachicho, I don't completely disagree with you. In particular I think you have a point when you say:
But I disagree with much of this:
I particularly question the notion of "the Family", which might seem like some natural, unmanufactured concept, that can be taken at face value. In my study of human history / society / literature, it has become apparent that the notion of "the Family" that people are familiar with is the "nuclear family" (husband, wife, and children) that has a history stretching back only about 50 years. In the first part of the 20th century, and for thousands of years previously, the family that most people lived in was an "extended family", with grandparents, aunts and uncles, and cousins all living in close proximity. The comparative few who could live apart from the extended family lived in an alternate structure, enabled by wealth; that is a few were able to live in manufactured families with maids, and cooks, and nannies. My point is that "the Family" that is typically pointed to as the natural state for human relations is, instead, a modern invention, and likely just as much to blame for our modern problems as anything. |
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RHachicho
Posts: 897 Location: Essex, UK |
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Fair point however to clarify I don't have any pre conceived judgements on how a family should be structured. To have a stab at defining it perhaps a collabarative effort to live together and raise the next generation. But whatever form it takes children need attention and the tutoring of preferably two stable parent figures who can spend a decent amount of time with the children. At the moment too many families do not fulfill this as the parents are either worked to the bone trying to make ends meet or are single parents. And to raise a child and make enough money to get by is a hell of a lot of work for one person. Too much imo.
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egoist
 Posts: 7762 |
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Hmm. If you're seeking it doesn't it mean that you already have a sexual deviation case in your hands? Well, I'm not really into any of the examples you've mentioned, but I do enjoy when I deeply care about an anime character and get dragged into the anime even more. Perhaps because nowadays I like a fictional character just as much as I like a human being. But, clearly, just because I like it doesn't mean I'm breaking the wall between reality and fiction, but rather, I enjoy them exactly because they're fictional. One thing is clear, I dislike underaged women because their boobies are small, not because there's a law barring me. Another thing is clear, I dislike violence mixed in with sex because it looks nasty, not because any morals are barring me. |
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hissatsu01
 Posts: 963 Location: NYC |
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Not only is there no evidence "deviancy" has increased, sexual abuse has declined sharply. http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/cgi/content/full/120/3/640?maxtoshow=&HITS=10&hits=10&RESULTFORMAT=&fulltext=prevention+of+abuse&andorexactfulltext=and&searchid=1&FIRSTINDEX=0&sortspec=relevance&resourcetype=HWCIT&eaf
Perception is that abuse has increased, likely because incidents are reported far more widely than in the past, and several decades ago incidents were often not reported at all, but reality does not jibe with perception. |
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RHachicho
Posts: 897 Location: Essex, UK |
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Gah can we stop quoting that line thnx I probably should have written "any recent increase" rather than "the recent increase" Since I nor do I think anybody else has any idea wether the numbers have gone up or down since half if not more happens where nobody ever hears about it.
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hissatsu01
Posts: 963 Location: NYC |
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That's the thing. There's no evidence of any recent increase. and the statistics point towards the opposite. Hysteria and sensationalistic reporting yes, but actual data no. And if you're going to argue that no one truly knows if numbers have gone up or down, then it leaves you no ground to argue for that there has been any increase in the first place. |
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RHachicho
Posts: 897 Location: Essex, UK |
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I am not arguing that there has been an increase in the first place ONLY that no one really knows and that the statistics are possibly highly innaccurate. I badly worded my first post. See Above.
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LordRedhand
 Posts: 1472 Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana |
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Sorry for the long response back but I feel the need to clarify some aspects, when I say that something is a problem or it's wrong it doesn't in and of itself imply that it is illegal. the best way to think of this would be to think of someone who is addicted to say eating hamburgers, and that point it's problematic not only for the individual but those around the individual as well, especially if loss of reason and the ability to make a rational decision becomes sacrificed along the way. The difference for me at least is that solving an addiction to eating hamburgers is easier to solve than say addiction to lolicon, if only because we have developed a habit that we must do at least three times a day, which is eating. I struggle to see a justification for lolicon (and by lolicon I mean the pornographic kind, not little Christmas cherubs and seraphs) Also in part my post is in response to those who think along the lines of: "Well isn't this better than being a pedophile?!" Which is why I brought in The Poison Was the Cure, as while myself and others consider it a separate addiction, it is hard to say that there isn't a link of some kind, So while possibly feeding a different addiction in this case it's using a "weaker" drug and getting addicted to that instead solely on similarities. Going back to the hamburger scenario I'd have just as much of a problem if they got addicted to hot dogs to solve their addiction. The only reason why this gets an "uproar" is that most on both sides of the argument draw upon the pedophile angle to either denounce or defend the position (it does and doesn't) I'd like to think that my argument against is slightly different in that it's the addiction itself (and it's potential addiction) to be a problem and an addiction where you loose the capability of making rational decisions and reason it's a problem is wrong. It's just that I fear with a mass consumer mindset most will go straight to option 2 instead of showing a sense of moderation (like drinking, it can be safe if you don't over do it, sign of going to far are hangovers, puking and other acts trying to purge from one's mind at that halo party.) I hope I cleared things up. |
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Ausdoerrt
 Posts: 481 |
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Oh please, this sounds like another one of those "let's ban violent videogames" ad nauseam argument. Any scientific/sociological basis for it is shaky at best, and it's likely driven by some sort of Christian extremists.
No product can cause a mental disorder in a person not predisposed to it already, so stop blaming the product, much less call people who enjoy the product mentally ill. Not to mention that it's backward logic (murderers use knives therefore all people who use knives are murderers), it's pretty offensive. As much as it's nice to bash people with interest different from yours, those promoting such "research" and "opposition" should really keep it to themselves. Sick people need to be cured, but don't call someone sick just because you don't agree with their views. I like lolicon yet I don't have any sexual problems. I watch violent pornography from time to time, yet I never have been compelled to rape anyone. I listen to black metal that talks about murder, abuse, blood orgies and whatnot, yet I have never felt like murdering anyone because of it. I adore violent anime and films. etcetc According to some people, I guess I'm the biggest threat to society. Pppureease. I suggest listening to Dee Snider's court speech and pondering upon it, since the mechanics of accusation or fake "moral arguments" have not the least changed over the years, except maybe getting more extreme and intolerant. |
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ShinobiX
 Posts: 889 Location: NY |
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um no. what u just said is more of a correlation its not a cause.
Anyhow most hentai is just underage little girls who enjoy getting raped. One of the side effects of rape is to laugh hysterically or passively accept it. We're having sex he's not forcing me...denial. You see that a lot in hentai. Some hentai even subtly explain the traumas caused by rape and why you shouldn't do it. Irony. If you like to watch that shit all it proves is that your fucked up in the head. It doesn't make you start liking whips and things. Look up the song. It's funny. Simply put it's like this: If I watch a horror movie I'll become a murderer. False If I watch hentai I'll become a masochist, sadist, and like hot wax. False |
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Toucanbird
Posts: 126 Location: Winona, Minnesota |
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I'll admit, I've seen a few lolicon hentai and looked at a few lolicon pics...and I can assure you that it hasn't caused me paraphilia. Obviously, it doesn't affect everyone.
Should it be banned? I really have no opinion toward the matter. I don't really look at lolicon all that often, so it wouldn't break my heart if I never saw a lolicon again. I can understand why it'd be banned since it is sort of an animated promotion of child pornography. Should hentai be banned? No. If you ban hentai, then you'd have to ban art altogether. I don't see Western countries banning hentai because then there'd be the question of shows like Family Guy and South Park (I know this is getting a little away from paraphilia). However, the excuse countries like the U.S. like to use is "morality." Sure, hentai isn't moral but neither is a lot of animated content in the U.S. anymore (talking about the cartoons you can see on Fox). |
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ShinobiX
Posts: 889 Location: NY |
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True but you have to remember that there is a difference between jokes on comedy central and watching rape and torture of little girls. Huge difference. The problem that garbage poses is that it puts impure thoughts into the minds of kids and people. Although it doesn't cause paraphilia, it does influence you behaviors hence the correlation part.
Despite what anyone says you become what you practice/ watch. If you repeatedly watch torture you'll develop an attitude akin to torture. If you repeatedly watch family guy, you're going to use their jokes in your everyday conversation and call girls bitches and hoes. If you had never watched or been exposed to family guy or hentai then those thoughts would be impossible. Society is afraid of creating and I quote "savages." This is similar to the prohibition of alcohol. That's also the reason why it wont get banned. It'll just be "censored." Also, a lot of things are banned in America. It's called "censoring". Companies payed them off. |
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Ausdoerrt
Posts: 481 |
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Yeah the jokes on comedy central are more tasteless 
No. Also, I take offense in that statement. For example, people who like Pulp Fiction are all sick in the head. It's a movie full of senseless violence, drugs, cursing and sexual references. If you like to watch that shit you're obviously fucked up in the head. If you watch it repeatedly, you will inevitably use "fudge" as every second word in your speech, and randomly kill people for no apparent reason. Guess what, that's wrong. Maybe that goes for teenagers and other people who don't know better. That's why things like education, suggested age ratings and parents exist. Implying that everyone is as weak-willed as someone I don't know who you're basing your opinion off, is too much of a stretch. Anyone with half a brain can learn to control influences, and if not, taught to control them. In short, the ones wrong in the head aren't the people who happen to enjoy violent movies/games among other things, but those who can't think for themselves.
"impure thoughts" based off a close-minded opinion of a certain group of people in a certain society, mind you. "So let's ban that stuff and jail everyone who happens to like it because they're a threat to the society as WE see it." 
It's not. What you're saying is the same as "Nabokov's Lolita is a book-form promotion of pedophilia" or "I would understand if every instance of word "[slur]" would be censored out of Mark Twain's works, since it could be offensive". Also, I probably don't need to remind you, but at some point something that you happen to like a lot will be put up for the same sort of discussion if everyone just silently takes it. |
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