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Animation differences between broadcast and DVD.


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errinundra
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Joined: 14 Jun 2008
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Location: Melbourne, Oz

PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 4:41 am Reply with quote
I got to know and love the series Noir when my nephew lent me his fansubbed copy of the series - presumably taken from a Japanese broadcast. Recently I purchased it on DVD. (Evidence that fansubs promote sales!) One of my favourite scenes is when Mireille and Kirika learn the truth of their past and, as promised, Mireille is supposed to kill her partner. Of course, Mireille, falters. I loved the contrast in Mireille's face as she is about to pull the trigger compared with her expression when she knows she can't do it.

Watching it on it DVD I eagerly awaited this scene. But wait, no.... it's different - they buggered it up! Have a look at these screenshots.

Fansub - Mireille is about to pull the trigger. That's one scary look on her face.


The same moment on the DVD. You know she's just a pussy and can't do it.


Fansub - Mireille realises she can't do it. Note the contrast with the first fansub image. There is psychological drama in those two moments.


The same moment on the DVD. Merely wistful.


WTF. Not only that but her face suddenly got fat. What's going on? Is it meant to suit the western body image or something?

Some other points to note. The DVD Mireille has smaller eyes, the blush beside her nose is gone (making her face seem relatively flat and featureless), her hair has more volume and more shading (especially on either side of her face) and the background has more detail. The overall effect is to draw attention away from her face and make her reaction rather less dramatic.

Perhaps people can provide other examples of improvements that aren't really improvements at all. I reckon there must be heaps in Evangelion.
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dtm42



Joined: 05 Feb 2008
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 5:31 am Reply with quote
Well I don't think I know of any more (besides Bakemonogatari), but I just wanted to post and say wow. I mean, WOW. Those are some massive differences. How does the rest of the show fare?
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The King of Harts



Joined: 05 May 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 6:34 am Reply with quote
Quote:
WTF. Not only that but her face suddenly got fat. What's going on? Is it meant to suit the western body image or something?

That is a huge difference, but I'm pretty confident that's Bee Train's doing, not ADV's. The only thing ADV can do to content is edit it, that looks like it was reanimated for the DVD. I think Shaft is known for doing that, reanimating scenes for the DVDs, that is.

Video quality-wise (the background, lines, colors) the DVD is much better, but she definitely looks better in the first shot. While I doubt it was done for Western audiences, I am curious as to why they made such a dramatic change?
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ninjapet



Joined: 20 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 9:12 am Reply with quote
kyoto animation did slight changes in the first season of TMoHS, there so little you can't spot them. I know there's a video on youtube that details what was changed from broadcast to DVD copy to.


Other then that Shaft is the only "big" animation c.o that changes things for a DVD release.

I know Natsu no Arashi! season 2's opening got a big upgrade in the DVD release (full color / added scenes )
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Shiroi Hane
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 9:32 am Reply with quote
There are generally forms of changes to the DVD version:

Correcting actual errors or sloppy animation they didn't have time to fix on a TV schedule (SHAFT is making a name for itself in this area by airing quite obviously nowhere near complete episodes on TV)

Removing censorship or adding fanservice.


The first time I can recall becoming aware of the former was when they corrected an episode of ROD the TV. The latter is becoming more and more common - it used to mostly be a case of adding nipples or reducing steam but nowadays...

The only time I ever sat down and directly compared the two versions was for Negima:

http://anime.thenexxus.org/​mt/​mt-​search.​cgi?​tag=​changes&​blog_id=​1&​IncludeBlogs=​1

You'll have to excuse the screenshots being cut off on the right; at some point in a blog upgrade the width has changed.
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ninjapet



Joined: 20 Apr 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 12:28 pm Reply with quote
I didn't think that Xebec fixed things in the DVD release for Negima!

All I know is I didn't watch the T.V copy of the show fansubbed because I ended up buying the VC release of the first series for cheap.
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PetrifiedJello



Joined: 11 Mar 2009
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 1:44 pm Reply with quote
errinundra wrote:
Note the contrast with the first fansub image.

Take an even closer look, and you'll notice they're not even the same girl. Check the lashes and the reflection in the eyes. The series offered on the DVD doesn't seem to be the same one compared to the other.

I'd say this particular series was re-distributed after some major work. I just checked the box and my DVD is offered in 16:9, so it may have been changed to suit the 16:9 displays many DVDs can handle, but OTA did not encompass during original airing.

Though, I've no way to know this for sure, but the "face fattening" sure does support it.
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Paploo



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PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 3:38 pm Reply with quote
One is more on model to the character designs then the other- that's basically it. It's pretty common for sloppier scenes to be cleaned up, which generally results in a better product for dvd buyers. I look at TV runs as less of an alternate cut and moreso as a working edit- they're not intended to be the finished product for these kinds of shows.
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errinundra
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 4:55 pm Reply with quote
There's no doubt the DVD Mireille is more recognisably Mireille and the quality of the artwork is also higher but the facial change is much less dramatic. The scene no longer has the impact of the broadcast version.
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Ggultra2764
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Joined: 21 Jan 2004
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 06, 2010 10:34 pm Reply with quote
What I do know of some other differences:

    *As I covered in an earlier thread, there were additional scenes added to the Japanese video release of Escaflowne in the first several episodes due to Sunrise making too much material to add into the TV broadcast.
    *Later video releases of Neon Genesis Evangelion for episodes 21-24 had either additional or reanimated scenes that were featured in Evangelion: Death and Rebirth.
    *Some key differences in the Japanese video release of His and Her Circumstances. The recap episodes of episode 14 and the first half of episode 15 are done differently where instead of having a clip show of scenes from the first half, statistics of each episode such as total number of viewers and thoughts of the series with a narrator briefly describing a brief summary of the events in each episode followed by a montage of scenes accompanied by one of the show's insert music tracks. And in episode 18, there is an extended scene spoiler[of Yukino and Arima having intercourse for the first time] replacing the black screen present in the TV airing.
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Westlo



Joined: 03 Oct 2002
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 9:08 am Reply with quote
It's actually rather common to have animation differences though reasons vary. Some shows get uncensored, others get slight touch ups, some scenes get extended etc.
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Zalis116
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 4:21 pm Reply with quote
Are you sure that's actual blush on her face and not just DivX3-based color glitching? I notice you haven't mentioned the stylish green "highlight" on the left side of her hair being removed in the DVD version. As King of Harts stated, these kinds of animation changes are made on the Japan side for the R2 DVD releases, and are not related in any way to localizing or changing things for foreign audiences.

Speaking of SHAFT, Moonphase was infamous for DVD rework syndrome. The fan reviews based on the TV version all slammed it for poor animation, yet I didn't notice any of the specific scenes they pointed out when I watched the DVD version.
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errinundra
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 07, 2010 8:06 pm Reply with quote
For sure, the blush may well be a phantom in the fansub. Similarly, the lack of background detail in the fansub could be due to poor copying - but then, I bought the DVD for just that reason.

In any case, the better quality picture of the DVD has removed much of the drama in the scene, as I said earlier.

I think it is amazing that such minor changes to the eyes and mouth could make such a difference to the scene. Animators must agonise at times getting the expressions just right.
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One Vorlon



Joined: 11 Apr 2008
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 11, 2010 4:03 am Reply with quote
The most noticeable difference I've ever seen was with the Cartoon Network broadcast of Outlaw Star and the dvd release. Beyond merely cutting scenes, CN was able to get the voice actors to do alternate dialogue for a couple of R-rated conversations (like the first episode where Jim and Gene arguing over whether they can afford for Gene to have a night on the town - and whether Jim needs to come along as a chaperone).

On a similar note, TechTV managed to arrange alternate dialogue for R.O.D. the tv series. In the broadcast version, the fake diary merely contains gushing compliments about Nene, while the dvd release was. . . more sexually charged.
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nechronius
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 22, 2010 12:39 am Reply with quote
Nope, I don't see how the broadcast version is better than the DVD. Or rather, I don't see how there is such a massive change in facial expression to the degree where one nailed it beautifully while the other ruined the shot. At least not in those shots. One can easily make arguments that one or the other is the superior animation although she does look "fatter" in the DVD release.


You want an example of a true change for the better? Just check out the broadcast of Claymore



vs the DVD release.

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