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Shelf Life - Sands of Time


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Chrno2



Joined: 28 May 2004
Posts: 6171
Location: USA
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:35 am Reply with quote
What the hell is a wikipedia-tan?

Well, I did enjoy 'Rin ~ Daughters of Mnemosyne'. Thanks to Netflix. Took me awhile to finally get the whole plot. I have to admit it was interesting. And I do have to admit it is sort a blast back to the past of the "dark" OVAs of the 80's. But 'Rin' is a lot slicker. Man didn't even know that 'Mamiko Noto' was 'Rin'. Knew her voice sounded familiar. It's just that she's not using her "stock" voice that is used for just about every anime character she's voiced. I'll have to pick this up eventually.

I found it funny that Erin picks this for 'St Patty's Day'. Yeah, not only does 'Rin' have green hair and drinks but the whole box motif has green in it. Didn't expect to see this reviewed again.
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keikanki



Joined: 25 Feb 2010
Posts: 107
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:46 am Reply with quote
Chrno2 wrote:
What the hell is a wikipedia-tan?


If you have ever looked up anime on Wikipedia before you've probably seen her before. Her face is on at least the discussion page of any article under the Wikipedia Anime & Manga Project umbrella.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipe-tan


Last edited by keikanki on Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:51 am; edited 1 time in total
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Mohawk52



Joined: 16 Oct 2003
Posts: 8202
Location: England, UK
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 10:50 am Reply with quote
In Ireland St. Patricks Day is more a subdued religious observation, than an in your face carnival parade. Wink
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erinfinnegan
ANN Columnist


Joined: 31 Jan 2005
Posts: 598
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 11:27 am Reply with quote
Mohawk52 wrote:
In Ireland St. Patricks Day is more a subdued religious observation, than an in your face carnival parade. Wink

Apparently having parades and eating corned beef is a New York Irish thing. I guess I do count as New York Irish.

everapril wrote:
Wow. Thanks to your linking that article, I've realized I can't live without a model of female Kaoru from Evangelion! I could have gone my whole life not knowing such a thing existed and been perfectly happy, but now that I do I want it in a ri-dic-u-lous way.

That toy has been on my Wishlist for years. Now if only I could get reverse-gender Haruhi Suzumiya figures...

SDS wrote:
Glass Mask actually aired at like 2am in Japan.

Is there some easy way to look up that kind of thing? Or did you read it on Japanese Wikipedia?

vashfanatic wrote:
Wait, so you mean at some point it stops being all about how to degrade, torture, and objectify its female leads? 'Cause really, there was nothing in the first two episodes...

Although you'll probably never do it, I'd recommend watching just the last episode to see where I'm coming from. It spells out the show's plot and its bizarre gender politics.

vashfanatic wrote:
I really don't count myself as a prude (dear God, I read Berserk!), but there was just something so damn vicious about the way the first two episodes treated Rin. If you're telling me it gets better, I'll believe you, but man was I shocked to see that misogynistic thing get a Shelf Worthy rating from you!

I kept waiting to get offended, but I never found Rin nearly as offensive as Popotan. I don't want to light the forums on fire going into it too much, though.

Rin has a very explicit morality. Everything is spelled out on the surface. Rapist are bad, unlike other shows, like Rape Man, or a lot of Japanese pornography (at least from what I've seen). We're not asked, as viewers, to accept that spoiler[angels consuming immortals] is a good thing.

vashfanatic wrote:
You can do cruel stuff to your characters, but if the entire story revolves around how to do cruel stuff to your characters...

It seems like that might be the point of ero guro, but I don't know much about it.

But Rin isn't tortured to death in every episode, thank god, or the show would be unwatchable. If that was the focus the entire time it would have been Perishable.

vashfanatic wrote:
...seriously, Erin, this is the kind of thing that got you into anime in the first place??? Or is that a reference to things that happen later?

It's the weirdness of the plot at the end and not so much the torture scenes... like I said, watch the last episode to see where I'm coming from. Although, if I weren't being paid to review it, I would not have hung around until the last episode.
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LaFreccia



Joined: 12 Apr 2006
Posts: 324
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 11:51 am Reply with quote
I love Glass Mask, and am happy that it is finally available to buy, but am disappointed that it doesn't include a dub. I really wanted a dub because I thought my sister (who teaches HS drama lighting, set design & costuming) would really get a kick out of it, but she doesn't like anime, and doesn't read. Plus, her daughter is too young to be able to read the subs, but might enjoy the show, if a dub made it more accessible. If the show had included a dub, I could give it to her as a gift, but I don't think she will ever watch it this way. Crying or Very sad
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Chrno2



Joined: 28 May 2004
Posts: 6171
Location: USA
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 11:55 am Reply with quote
keikanki wrote:
Chrno2 wrote:
What the hell is a wikipedia-tan?


If you have ever looked up anime on Wikipedia before you've probably seen her before. Her face is on at least the discussion page of any article under the Wikipedia Anime & Manga Project umbrella.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Wikipe-tan


OH!!! Yeah, I've seen her. Didn't know she had a name.
Heheh. Thanks for the info. Smile
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PetrifiedJello



Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 3782
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:05 pm Reply with quote
erinfinnegan wrote:
I kept waiting to get offended, but I never found Rin nearly as offensive as Popotan.

This line just had me laughing out loud! Briefly, I thought "And Rin gets a Shelf Worthy rating? Oh my, I'll never understand this girl."

It seems Popotan will now forever be your "benchmark" on "offensive" titles.
Smile

Now I'm curious to know how Popotan would have been rated if Mii were cut up into pieces by a sadistic cameraman saying "Mii-licious" while doing it.
Twisted Evil

Quote:
I don't want to light the forums on fire going into it too much, though.

Yeah, that's a shame. It really is. I've been curious since reading the column.
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Dorcas_Aurelia



Joined: 23 Jul 2006
Posts: 5344
Location: Philly
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 12:33 pm Reply with quote
erinfinnegan wrote:
Rin has a very explicit morality. Everything is spelled out on the surface. Rapist are bad, unlike other shows, like Rape Man, or a lot of Japanese pornography (at least from what I've seen). We're not asked, as viewers, to accept that spoiler[angels consuming immortals] is a good thing.

If rape is so bad, why do they have to show it in such erotic detail? The whole point of the torture scene with the sadist piercing Rin in the first episode was for arousal, not to evoke sympathy for Rin.
As to Rin's portrayal of rape as bad compared to various hentai, I've seen plenty that mean for it to be just as unpleasant as in Rin (minus the guro) yet treat the attention to detail in the rape scenes the same as that in the consensual ones.
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vashfanatic



Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 3489
Location: Back stateside
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 2:34 pm Reply with quote
erinfinnegan wrote:
Rin has a very explicit morality. Everything is spelled out on the surface. Rapist are bad, unlike other shows, like Rape Man, or a lot of Japanese pornography (at least from what I've seen). We're not asked, as viewers, to accept that spoiler[angels consuming immortals] is a good thing.

Except that frankly it was depicted (at least at the end of episode 2) as somehow erotic. And yes, I have had the misfortune of stumbling across online fans who thought that scene was very hot. Obviously I can't speak necessarily to the intentions of the writers, but to me it came across as downright vile, as bad as a lot of the porn out there just not willing to go for the money shots.

Quote:
But Rin isn't tortured to death in every episode, thank god, or the show would be unwatchable. If that was the focus the entire time it would have been Perishable.(...) Although, if I weren't being paid to review it, I would not have hung around until the last episode.

And I guess that's why I'm surprised it got a Shelf Worthy rather than a Rental. If you really did find it at times borderline unwatchable, why recommend that we all buy it?

Also, why does "she survives it all" make it better? To me that almost makes it worse. Hence why I used Czes in Baccano! as an example, since he recovers from all the injury done to him. There's having violence against to the characters, and then there's reveling in violence against a character. To me, Rin crossed that line by a mile.

And no, I really, really don't want to watch any more of that. If it's only half as sadistic as the first episodes for the rest of it, it'll still really bother me. It doesn't really offend me as much as appall me. I suppose if the plot is really super ultra fantastic I might consider it, but so far you've just said it's "weird." That's not really enough; there's plenty of weird anime out there that doesn't spend most of its energy abusing its lead.
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Stretch24



Joined: 11 Dec 2005
Posts: 107
Location: Ohio
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 4:44 pm Reply with quote
I thought that Mnemosyne was a roller coaster ride of sex and action. Throughout the series shocking violence comes flying out of nowhere with little warning, but it usually made me laugh because before long I had learned not to take it seriously. The principal characters' immortality turns all sorts of preconcieved notions upside down. Mnemosyne is kind of kinky, too, with things like lesbian sex for information taking place. The result was a fun show even if it clearly wasn't hoping to be remembered as a classic someday.

Basically, Rin and Mimi's superpower is their immortality; the show seems to play with this in a grisly manner--horrific violence inflicted upon Rin is turned upside down and becomes almost laughable since it means little to her. I like the incident where she and Mimi had to make do with some odd clothing after their original outfits had been burned off their bodies. The two are colorful characters; confident, respectable, and grimly making the best of their unique situation. I enjoy their banter as much as the action scenes. There's a definite ecchi aspect to this too; the show teases you in a naughty way but doesn't leave you feeling dirty at the end. I wouldn't have minded if the individual episodes had more of an interconnectedness, though. They are difficult to understand, having the common flaw that the basic mystery and its solution are each only explained once, and briefly at that, so if you're not paying close attention you are screwed. Also, action tends to take place in dark rooms where it is difficult to tell what is going on. Episode one left a strong impression while the others were less memorable. There is definitely a pleasing ending, though I still have only a vague notion of what "Yggdrasil" was, and am left wondering if the conclusion is good or bad for the world as a whole, and if the problem has been solved once and for all. Still, a fun show, and naughty as well. The style, the likeable characters, the sex and action are enough to keep me thoroughly entertained even if I don't completely understand what just happened.

Sands of Destruction is a fun show--it just could have been much more fun if a little additional effort had been put into it. Nice touches are sometimes added but not taken far enough, as if the scriptwriter became frightened of a new idea and backed off. The clever twists at the end of episodes would have been better if they had made some more sense and hadn't seemed abrupt. Still, the reason I'm complaining is because we got a glimpse of true excellence, but were taken no farther. It's frustrating that good ideas are being handled carelessly. Given it's amusing premise and characters, and the high hopes they instill, not being all it can be is somehow especially frustrating.

Early on, I considered Sands of Destruction to be a favorite but with time I became increasingly frustrated and disappointed. There is a touch of weirdness, definitely, but all-in-all the episode plots are too predictable and unimaginitive. Not a disaster, certainly, but I can't help feeling disappointed. At the end of an episode I'm left with an "Oh, that's it..." feeling. There seems little long term plot, just Morte, Kirie and Toppi running into strange problems as they wander about, and solving them within 23 minutes. Nor do any of the principal characters have much of a personality even as we near the end, which is odd considering how much talking they have done. Thankfully, there are a couple of good jokes per episode.

The final episode takes off on a strange tangent about which few hints have been dropped. Something like 90% of the explanation of what exactly the "Destruct Code" is and how it works comes within this single episode. It was a bit surprising, made some sense, and as a result left me mildly happy. All-in-all, the words "frustration" and "disappointment" most neatly summarize my response to World Destruction. It ends up as a show about which rather than being angry at it for it's mediocrity, I regret that it's potential wasn't exploited to a greater extent. How could anybody hate characters like Toppi, Lia and Morte after all?
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Quark



Joined: 07 Mar 2008
Posts: 710
Location: British Columbia, Canada
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:35 pm Reply with quote
vashfanatic wrote:

...seriously, Erin, this is the kind of thing that got you into anime in the first place??? Or is that a reference to things that happen later?


I've only watched the first episode, but I can kind of see where she's coming from. Rin feels a lot like an OAV from the late 80's to early 90's - violent, lots of nudity, and just strange. Judging from the first episode, it definitely feels different than most anime out right now. That might change later though.
I completely understand your point of view about the show being misogynistic, as it seems to enjoy acting out sexual violence upon Rin.
Myself, I didn't find the show offensive in the slightest. Since I'm a horror movie junkie, it didn't strike me as being that violent, and since spoiler[Rin can't die] the violence against her didn't seem so bad. I realize that's a bad excuse though, as spoiler[she can still feel pain], therefore, the violence isn't okay at all.
But...my ideas of offensive and unoffensive are warped. I'm the type of girl that will get offended by stuff like the Twilight novels (remember girls, without a boyfriend, your life is a black hole!) or hip-hop lyrics. Something like Rin, I don't even bat an eye.

Anyway, Rin seems like an older anime, where you watch it for the boobs, and blood. It's definitely not for everyone, but there are some weirdos out there (like me) who enjoy that kind of thing.
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erinfinnegan
ANN Columnist


Joined: 31 Jan 2005
Posts: 598
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:37 pm Reply with quote
PetrifiedJello wrote:
erinfinnegan wrote:
I kept waiting to get offended, but I never found Rin nearly as offensive as Popotan.

This line just had me laughing out loud! Briefly, I thought "And Rin gets a Shelf Worthy rating? Oh my, I'll never understand this girl."
[snip]
Yeah, that's a shame. It really is. I've been curious since reading the column.

I started to spell out my long and complicated views on lolicon for livejournal... but then I had to write more columns and stuff. It'd probably be easier to explain to you in real life, should we ever meet.

vashfanatic wrote:
Except that frankly it was depicted (at least at the end of episode 2) as somehow erotic.

It's erotic, but at least it starts to approach consensual sex...? The first two episodes are more porn than plot, until the ratio gets mostly reversed later on. I've often wanted more plot to my porn, and as well as uh, consensual sex in said porn. Rin begins to approach that, but I could do without the grotesque violence.

vashfanatic wrote:
If you really did find it at times borderline unwatchable, why recommend that we all buy it?

Like a horror movie, Rin is set up to make you squeamish. I've never been inclined to watch a Saw movie, but I assume you want to turn away from the screen at times (or most of the time). If that is what the director intended, and it made you feel that way, then it was successful.

I assume that readers of this column don't just purchase Shelf Worthy titles, but they also read the body of the review to make sure they're interested. Which you did.

vashfanatic wrote:
Also, why does "she survives it all" make it better? To me that almost makes it worse. Hence why I used Czes in Baccano! as an example, since he recovers from all the injury done to him. There's having violence against to the characters, and then there's reveling in violence against a character. To me, Rin crossed that line by a mile.

I'm sure Czes is already the subject of many ero guro doujinshi.

The show revels in it a lot less starting with episode three. But you'll never know because...
vashfanatic wrote:
And no, I really, really don't want to watch any more of that.

I don't think you should. I mean, even to win an argument or make a point, if you find it appalling don't watch it.
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PetrifiedJello



Joined: 11 Mar 2009
Posts: 3782
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 5:55 pm Reply with quote
erinfinnegan wrote:
I started to spell out my long and complicated views on lolicon for livejournal... but then I had to write more columns and stuff. It'd probably be easier to explain to you in real life, should we ever meet.

Well, PM me if you ever hit the Indianapolis area. Smile Otherwise, I'll wait for the "paragraph a week/month/quarter" it'll take for you to write your views to post on your blog.
Wink
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The Ramblin' Wreck



Joined: 07 Apr 2003
Posts: 924
Location: Teaching Robot Women How To Love
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:13 pm Reply with quote
I ended up mostly enjoying Rin.

Mostly.

I liked the time-jump aspects. I thought the periods were well developed and the technology and society showed a nice progression, as compared to our unchanging protagonists. Plus, unless I'm remembering it incorrectly, the first episode was by far the most "ero-gore", and you still didn't see much.

I also liked how I personally came to care about the secondary characters and how Rin and co. affect their lives, like the police detective and the lesbian crime syndicate.

However, I thought the final episode was a trainwreck of storytelling. I'm usually very good at following what's going on, even surrealism. But Episode 6 utterly lost me. If anyone can explain to me spoiler[what happened to Rin when she went into the tree/pile of frozen immortal women and why she could go back out again; who the heck were the "Guardians"; why we'd never heard of Rin's love for the older "Guardian" up until she proclaims her undying affection; what the heck was Apos' scheme about? I could go on]

Anyway, a surprisingly entertaining romp for Episodes 1-5 for me.
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DerekTheRed



Joined: 19 Dec 2007
Posts: 3544
Location: ::Points to hand::
PostPosted: Tue Mar 16, 2010 6:32 pm Reply with quote
PetrifiedJello wrote:
erinfinnegan wrote:
I started to spell out my long and complicated views on lolicon for livejournal... but then I had to write more columns and stuff. It'd probably be easier to explain to you in real life, should we ever meet.

Well, PM me if you ever hit the Indianapolis area. Smile Otherwise, I'll wait for the "paragraph a week/month/quarter" it'll take for you to write your views to post on your blog.
Wink


Gencon, anyone?
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