Forum - View topicREVIEW: Robotech: The Shadow Chronicles DVD
|
Goto page 1, 2 Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||||||||||||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Beatdigga
 Posts: 4367 Location: New York |
|
|||||||||||||||||||||
|
It's a shame the end product didn't turn out so well because of the obvious effort poured into it.
I'll stick with the Macross sets then. |
||||||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||||||
Lowlife187
 Posts: 156 Location: New Macross City |
|
|||||||||||||||||||||
|
Yes, as my avatar states, I am 100% Macross. But Robotech was my first love, so I have High hopes for Shadow Cronicles, and hopefully more in the future.
I have seen screen shots and I thought they did a good job keeping to the old series style, maybe it is too outdated in comparison todays anime. I will buy and watch this video, only because it is Robotech. |
||||||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||||||
Iritscen
 Posts: 793 |
|
|||||||||||||||||||||
|
Yeah, it's a shame, but I can't say this review surprised me.
jsevakis makes a good point, that perhaps dubs have come too far since the '80s. Listening to Robotech now, things feel a little flat, although the anime itself (themselves!) was (were!) pretty primitive too. Remember when Lisa is running from that tank or whatever that's bouncing as it falls towards her (when they get aboard a Zentraedi cruiser early on, I think), and the animation goes to like 1 frame a second? Anyway, that's OT, but that part always cracks me up? It's like they did key frames and forgot to tween. |
||||||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||||||
|
areaseven
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 1486 Location: Makati, Philippines |
|
|||||||||||||||||||||
|
From the get-go, I knew The Shadow Chronicles was going to be stale on arrival. Nothing in Harmony Gold's camp surprises me anymore when it comes to their attempts to milk the Robotech franchise.
After watching the trailer to this film, I decided to visit my local Church and watch Orientation instead, as it had much better animation and made more sense than The Shadow Chronicles. |
||||||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||||||
Ryusui
 Posts: 461 |
|
|||||||||||||||||||||
|
...If Harmony Gold torpedoes a future potential SRW release just to protect a "franchise" they can't make any money off of to begin with, there will be hell to pay.
|
||||||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||||||
|
relak
Posts: 10 |
|
|||||||||||||||||||||
|
IMO, the review writer seems to be a little biased and a little too harsh.
He seems to have his mind set on that Robotech is nothing more than a mix-match of 3 non-related anime instead of appreciating it as a totally new and different story as it should be. Its the wording he uses, calling Robotech a "frankenstein" series. Utter biasedness, hence im not surprised such a biased fan will turn out such a biased review against robotech. I have personally seen the movie and, though im not exactly a hardcore robotech fan, i am an anime and mecha fan and i know what i like when i see it. 1)
---Well DUH. In the numerous interviews, the director does repeat the Robotech the Shadow Chronicles is a PILOT for a future Tv series. A 26 episode series is already being planned. Hence the cliffhanger. If all plot points were summed up in the movie, there would be no need for a TV series. 2)
----Another utterly biased statement. I have watched the movie. In what way is the storyline a mish-mash of stories that barely fit together?? I hope the writer of the review is reading this so he can explain. The story is actually pretty well planned out. Though seemingly episodic for a movie. 3)
---wadaya mean "never intended". Harmony Gold had alwasy had the intention of continuing the Robotech saga. But it was always due to financial difficulties that no sequel came to fruition up till now. 4) About the 3D and 2D. The 3D may look dated but thats only cos the movie is a 2002 production. Compared to CGI of 2006, of course it looks dated. As for the 2D, if the writer calls THAT 2D graphics "flatly colored, low-budget work ", i would like to direct him to Negima, Nerima DAikon Brothers, D.I.C.E, and i have lots more to name. The 2D graphics are comparable actually along the lines of many anime OVAs(not surprising since they basically worked on a TV episode budget from what i heard), or is the writer again just being biased just becos its not a 100% japanese creation?? 5)
-----oh this is laughable. For people who have watched as much anime as i have, this is laughable. After seeing anime like Gravion or Witchblade, the "assets" of the Robotech female characters are actually on the normal side of typical anime female assets. So are the "bishie" men. Ok im done ranting. |
||||||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||||||
|
jsevakis
Former ANN Editor in Chief
 Posts: 1684 Location: Los Angeles, CA |
|
|||||||||||||||||||||
No, it's the truth. It was three series. Harmony Gold, in typical 80's style, edited them together and rewrote them trying to construct one universe out of three series that were never meant to be together. If any company tried that today, anime fans would start rioting. It'd be like if I edited together Love Hina, Negima and Girls Bravo and tried to make them one series. The only difference here, and I imagine the reason for your indignation, is that a) it kinda worked, albeit with some holes, and b) you like it. " we veer off into another direction so there can be an unresolved cliffhanger to tease an as-yet nonexistent project"
Whether it's intentional or not, it makes for a bad movie. It's a crass marketing trick, as 1/4 of the movie you've paid to see is now a commercial for something that doesn't even exist yet and may never. It shows that the quality of the story is not the first priority, has he has cut it short to plug something. Worse, the storytelling for the first 3/4 of the movie is so bad, few people will take the bait. I guess you were a lucky catch. "this installment of Robotech continues the grand tradition of being a bizarre mish-mash of stories that barely fit together"
See? You admit yourself it's a bit episodic. I would go one step further. Let me try to break it down for you: First 30 min. of the movie: a retelling the last episode and a half of Mospeda/New Generation. (You can imagine how well this worked for people who hadn't seen the end of Robotech, or Mospeda.) It's impressive, making a deal with spooky aliens! Min. 30 to min. 65 of the movie: Wait, now they're on a ship looking for someone that wasn't even mentioned in the first act? It's a space opera/sitcom. Oh look, kooky characters! Woot! Space explosions! Min. 65 to credits: Okay, the found the guy. Movie's over, right? NO! Now we're suddenly at war! How are they going to resolve this? Oh! They're not GONNA! Now, in what way is this a cohesive movie? And don't use the excuse that "it's not supposed to be," because that just means they admitted it before it came out and you've bought into it and lowered your standards accordingly. extend the world to go somewhere it was never intended
Harmony Gold may have intended it, but they weren't the ones telling the story. Tatsunoko were the ones telling the story, and they made these stories to end where they did (or in the case of Macross, a little before). The reason Robotech was good wasn't because of Harmony Gold, but the fact that they knew enough to let the quality of the original shows shine through as much as possible and left them mostly untouched. These cosmoganies were not designed to be extended, and when somebody does so, that becomes glaringly obvious because it feels completely out of place. To put it simply, the good storytellers have left the room, and now one of the guys that was listening with us is trying to imitate him and go in another direction that SORTA makes sense, and I'm rolling my eyes. And you're eating it up.
Congratulations, you have now completely crossed the line into apologist. Just because I panned it does not mean there are worse anime out there. There's MUCH worse anime out there. Robotech SC is getting released in 2007, which means it gets judged by today's standards. (It's not the viewer's problem that, for whatever reason, finished work was sitting on the shelf for five years. CG ages quickly, which is why it's usually a bad idea to make it if you don't have distribution.) But if you think this 2D work is on par with most OAV's, you seriously need to get your eyes checked. Perhaps you aren't used to seeing anime on a big screen? I've seen hundreds of Korean animated productions. I enjoy Korean cinema. I work for a Korean American-owned entertainment company. But I know when somebody is completely out-classed. There are only a couple Korean "anime style" pieces of animation that are even watchable, and even when they are, they still don't seem as polished or natural as the Japanese stuff. I really enjoy the Korean animation where they use their own art style, like My Beautiful Girl Mari or Oseam. There are some very talented animators out there, and I've seen some of their student shorts to prove it. But until the producers out there stop trying to pointlessly imitate the Japanese, they will never be as good. Ken and Barbie-with-implants body types
I know that, the size wasn't the point I was trying to make. Didn't you notice that everybody had the EXACT same physique, was almost the EXACT same height (by gender), and had the EXACT same bust size? Even the shittiest Japanese anime has more than one male and one female body model. This was like the cheap Barbie knock-offs you see at dollar stores, where you can swap different heads onto the same body. The paint-on costume designs were telltale signs of a weak artist, as most novices can draw boobs and pecks and abs, but far fewer can effectively draw the clothing that must believably hang from a body.
Your use of the word "bishie" here indicates that you don't really know what it means. I suggest you look it up in our encyclopedia. Attractive, sure. Bishonen? Absolutely not.
Did you attend the Q&A with the director or something? Shake his hand, perhaps? You sound star-struck, the way you're apologizing for his ineptitude. |
||||||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Zac
ANN Executive Editor
 Posts: 7912 Location: Anime News Network Technodrome |
|
|||||||||||||||||||||
Oh boy let's throw around the word "bias" for no reason at all! If anyone disagrees with me, they're just biased and therefore their opinion is worthless! |
||||||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||||||
|
relak
Posts: 10 |
|
|||||||||||||||||||||
|
1) 3 series yes. But with a totally new story and characters. Hence a totally different series. The only thing Robotech has in common with the 3 japanese productions is the animated footage. Thats all.
Robotech isnt just a mere americanisation dubbing of MAcross, Mospeda and Southern cross(see 4kids work), its a completely new story and i dont know why people in this day and age cant see that. Speaking from a personal POV, i am actually quite impressed about what they did. It aint easy writing a totally new story within the confines of footage. Usually in film making its the other way round, making footage within the confines of the story. 2) No, Tommy Yune and HG already have a 26 episode Tv series planned according to an interview. So a future product does exist. Like seriously, in what way is the storytelling "bad". 3) Why am i not surprised that its episodic?? Becos IT IS in essence, TV episodes. BAsically like the first 4 episodes of a TV series compiled into a movie(which is not exactly a new thing. Such a practice has been going on for ages, compiling episodes into "movies") 4) Maybe the one difference why i found the story cohesive was that my friend lent me the prelude comics to read before we went to watch and i rewatched the whole Robotech series. Im guessing you didn't read the comics?? Cos maybe thats why you find the story non-cohesive?? 5) But once again, Robotech was never the same stories that Tatsunoko came up with. Southern cross and Mospeda could have ended then and there, but Robotech is something different. AT the end of it, it was a cliffhanger to set up for a future sequel, the same cliffhanger doesnt exist in Mospeda. And is it a crime to want to continue a franchise?? It didn't stop star trek even after the passing of Gene Roddenberry. 6) Imitate the japanese?? Are you sure thats not just THEIR style?? If a style works, and the artists are comfortable with it, why not?? Korea has been working on japanese animation for a while now. Maybe they just gotten used to the style. Why are everyone complaining about "imitating the japanese style" nowadays. No one seemed to complain that early anime imitated overseas styles. 7) THe clothing. THe clothing were like that even in the Original Robotech. Especially the uniforms. I dont see whats there to complain unless you didn't like Mospeda's uniform designs. Zac>> I cited the wording used. To me, it seems this movie is getting the short end of the stick mainly cos its Robotech. |
||||||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Steve Berry
Posts: 522 Location: San Francisco Bay Area, CA |
|
|||||||||||||||||||||
|
I thought the article seemed a bit biased as well-- I don't mean to say that the movie might not be crap, or have bad animation, or have simple character designs-- all of which may be true. I haven't seen the movie, so I can't really argue those points- perhaps the CG is bad, and the characters designs simplistic, and the plot "episodic" and not a convential three act story with closure. All very reasonable and possible. Perhaps it truly is a bad viewing experience-- I'm not trying to be an apologist.
Still, it seemed to be like the reviewer was prepared to dislike the idea of a continuation story from the get go. I mean, people don't critique other movies within the continuity of a show-- like the Full Metal Alchemist movie-- for not being able to be seen on its own. I think it's pretty obvious the movie is meant as a continuation of the Robotech series for fans of the series, and was written as a cliffhanger pilot for a TV show-- to critique it for not having enough closure, or for not being something a new fan can watch seems a bit silly, when it' seems like it's obviously not the point of the production. I guess the question is-- whether one is watching this as a stand alone movie for someone that has no prior knowledge of Robotech and will not be watching anymore, or as a pilot for an upcoming/possible series for fans of what's come before. If one is watching it as the first (which seems to be the point of the reviewer) than obviously the movie's plot is a failure. It would be nice though, I guess, as a reader, to have an opinion that was prepared to also look at it from the other point of view as well so I could understand how it functioned as a pilot. And yes, I agree, the "frankenstein" and "bizarre mishmash" comments are pretty good indicators of a reviewers opinion. I'm no super big Robotech fan (although I love the original Macross), but I thought they did a pretty good job joining the original Japanese shows together and creating their own universe. One's right in saying its just a matter of opinion, but it should be relatively obvious from the review that the reviewer is obviously rather critical of the original series-- you can call it whatever you like, but "bias" is how you define that predisposed stand. I'm not saying it's "bad"-- all reviews are just opinions--, but it's silly not to note it when reading a review, or, for that fact, when writing a review, and to take it into account and lay it all on the table for ones viewers. Basically, the review seemed to state certain things as fact about the quality of the original series, and whether or not it should have been continued, when it's obviously a matter of opinion. I'm happy to have those opinions stated-- it should just be made clear, IMO, so that readers know where a reviewer is coming from. That's part of what bothered me about the review. As before- this isn't really about whether the movie is good or not-- more about the review and how it was written. I like coming here, I like reading the reviews (and am happy to have read this one), but I thought I'd just give my two cents about my issues with the review. Last edited by Steve Berry on Sun Jan 21, 2007 10:53 pm; edited 1 time in total |
||||||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||||||
|
ABetterTimeandPlace
Posts: 101 |
|
|||||||||||||||||||||
You keep repeating the phrases "totally new," "totally different," and "completely new." You're misusing the word "totally" and "completely." Robotech was a partially rewritten series with partially new story and characters. Robotech still has humans fighting alien invasions like the three original anime. It still has aliens called Zentradi/Zor/Inbit, just slightly respelled. It still has recognizable characters like Roy Focker, Lynn Minmay, Bowie, Louis, Bernard, and Mint, only slightly respelled. It still has mecha like Valkyries, the SDF-1 Macross, Logans, Bioroids, Ikazuchis, and Syncrotron cannons, slightly respelled. Seriously, even some of dialogue is still the same ("56,000 people," "a cousin who's like a brother to me," "15th ATAC"). If the story was "completely" rewritten, none of this would be true. If all Robotech reused was the animation footage, we wouldn't get many of the same casualty numbers and the same verbal jokes in both dialogues. Robotech was only partially rewritten, with many flaws throughout the rewriting (the "planet Pamir" in the solar system and Rand's mistakenly inserted ad-lib: "Get a job!"). Robotech did take the term "Protoculture," a term for the first intelligent species in the Macross universe, and turned it into a unifying power source, a hallucinogenic "food stuff," and a living "computer." It changed some names because Harmony Gold thought people couldn't pronounce Bruno J. Global, Jeanne, and Ray. That's why it's partially rewritten, but it's not completely rewritten.
Again, you're misusing the word "totally." You make it sound like it's harder to rewrite someone else's scripts than for that someone to create the original scripts from scratch. Who had the harder job, the people who actually wrote and animated Macross/Southern Cross/Mospeada, or the people who just rewrote them?
According to Tommy Yune on Robotech.com, he didn't actually give that Animation Magazine interview you're quoting. He said that magazine apparently took a convention appearance quote out of context, in which Harmony Gold said that films or a series is possible. No firm numbers like 26 episodes. http://www.robotech.com/community/forum/read.php?id=1674969&forumid=31&pagenumber=1#post Ideas for future products exist. A future product doesn't exist.
New characters with poorly-fleshed out personalities. A half hour of redundant, yet conflicting scenes. Lines like "If we make it out of this alive, my wife is gonna kill me!" An overly long half-ending that only serves to hype sequels that may never exist. Yawn-inducing speechifying at the level of the Phantom Menace's Senate scenes.
Is it new? No. Is such a compilation worthy of being billed as "the greatest animated saga" or "feature-length movie spectacular"? No. Is it still late-night rental fodder? Barely, yes.
With an estimated 8,234 copies of the last Prelude comic issue sold, only a fraction of the people watching Shadow Chronicles even had a chance to touch the comics. Why should the general public need to buy a $17.50 comic series to enjoy a $20 DVD? That's like telling people that they won't understand the current season of 24 if they don't get the prequel special on DVD, and it's their own fault. http://www.icv2.com/articles/home/8247.html
Robotech's previously history of unresolved cliffhangers (Robotech, Sentinels, 3000) doesn't excuse the creation of yet another cliffhanger with the possibility of no resolution.
Nobody said it was a crime to continue to Robotech franchise. It's just a badly told story, nothing more or less. It's not a crime to continue the Star Trek franchise with Nemesis--it's just not something most people should spend twenty bucks on.
Nothing's wrong with following an artstyle you admire. But if you don't do it any better, don't expect people give you any breaks. If you do it worse, do expect to be criticized.
Look at the clothes of Aisha/Ariel in Mospeada and Robotech twenty years ago. Do you remember a plunging, expansive cleavage? Look at the clothes of the Refles/Regess twenty years ago. Do you remember cantaloupes over a form-fitting top? Look at the uniform of the Mars Forces/Expeditionary Force twenty years ago. Do you remember the fabric caressing around every curve and pec like a Jim Lee paint-on-suit?
It's getting the short end of the stick because there are many $20 DVDs with better animation, storytelling, characterization, and designs. It's only average, so a C- grade is reasonable. |
||||||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||||||
|
jsevakis
Former ANN Editor in Chief
Posts: 1684 Location: Los Angeles, CA |
|
|||||||||||||||||||||
|
Wow, I was going to bother replying one last time, but ABetterTimeAndPlace wrote a better one that I would have.
Relak, chill out. It's just a review. You're totally allowed to disagree with me. The world won't end if you like a movie other people dislike. And I guarantee you there will be many more than me who aren't so hot on this one. Besides, your admission at reading a $18 comic that only sold 8,000 units indicates that you are a bit bigger a fan than the "not the biggest Robotech fan in the world" line might have lead one to believe. (Actually, the term "stark raving fanboy" comes to mind.) Certainly there's nothing wrong with attempting to continue the story, but having the things I mentioned in the review against it might serve as some reason why it didn't work so well. I thought my opinions about Robotech in general were pretty obvious from the opening paragraph; I don't see how much further disclosure is necessary (or even possible). |
||||||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Steve Berry
Posts: 522 Location: San Francisco Bay Area, CA |
|
|||||||||||||||||||||
|
Mostly, I thought your opinions were very much there in the first paragraph as well, but rather latent, and never fully said. Just my opinion. I think it'd be honest to say something like-- "You know, I was never a big fan of the Robotech series, I always thought it was a bit dicombobulated and out of sync narratively, but I thought I'd give it another shot with this new movie. Perhaps I'm a bit biased, since I never really cared for the orginal show, but I thought this movie duplicatd exactly the same issues I had with the original Robotech series" or some such thing as that.
This is just my angle as a writer, not about your opinion re: the show. To me, part of reading a review is that you understand the personality and opinion of the writer, and that the writer is frank and upfront about where they're coming from. I thought the review was beating around the bush a bit, in re: to how you thought of the first show. Perhaps you feel that you stated all of your opinions very clearly. If so, power to you. As a reader of your review, since I have this forum in which to chat with you, I would have appreciated a more explicit statement of your attitudes, opinions, and biases (whatever Zac would like to call it) re: Robotech from the beginning. As before-- bias is fine, I just think it should be something that's laid out up front. I also thought some comment re: the movie being a pseudo pilot-- and whether you thought it worked as that or not (perhaps it's still crap even in that view)-- would have been helpful... mostly because that's partly how I understood the movie to be. And I still stand by the thought that in your first paragraph (I just reread the review for the sake of the post) tends to state as fact what are your opinions re: the show. That's a dangerous path to tread when you are trying to make an arguement, as it tends to undermine other opinions you might have re: the show. I think Robotech has major issues too-- but that' s more because I thought the 2nd and 3rd shows were subpar from the beginning, not because the over arching storyline that bound them together was subpar. My point? Not that your opinion is wrong, but that you put out as fact (agreed upon by almost all) what I felt was largely your opinion. That fact showed a sort of hidden bias, which would have been largely undermined and countered if you'd simply stated from the beginning what your biases were. Mentioning those attitudes defuses them as arguements against your opinions for why the movie crapola. All this is simply meant to be constructive criticism, as I thought the review was well written in general, and that you gave a number of fine examples for a number of your opininos re: the movie. That angle simply seemed like something that could be improved upon. That's all. Hope it's helpful. 
Steve |
||||||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||||||
Kouji
 Posts: 978 |
|
|||||||||||||||||||||
|
[quote="Steve Berry"]Mostly, I thought your opinions were very much there in the first paragraph as well, but rather latent, and never fully said. Just my opinion. I think it'd be honest to say something like-- "You know, I was never a big fan of the Robotech series, I always thought it was a bit dicombobulated and out of sync narratively, but I thought I'd give it another shot with this new movie. Perhaps I'm a bit biased, since I never really cared for the orginal show, but I thought this movie duplicatd exactly the same issues I had with the original Robotech series" or some such thing as that. /quote]So, in other words you would rather have a watered-down sugar coated review with a bunch of random apologizes thrown in every other sentence so that nobody accidentally steps on the toes of some obsessive Robotech fanboy who was planning on buying this DVD regardless of whatever the review said to begin with? Just for future reference, the phrase "no offense but" is usually followed by an offensive statement.
|
||||||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||||||
|
jsevakis
Former ANN Editor in Chief
Posts: 1684 Location: Los Angeles, CA |
|
|||||||||||||||||||||
Fair enough. That could be because I don't really have a clear opinion about Robotech to begin with, other than I realize that it, for all of its faults, served its purpose and has its fans. I actually saw the original three series first, so I don't share the nostalgia filter that most Robotech fans view the series through. I thought if anything, that made me more objective in this case, so it didn't bear mentioning.
I reviewed it like I would have reviewed any other movie; that is to say, the additional information that it might serve as a pilot to something more is irrelevant, as it's not information that's presented to the audience in any meaningful way, and moreover, said series may or may not ever get made. Only people who have been following the film's release would know it, and whether a film works should not be based on that knowledge. (It doesn't affect my opinion anyway.)
Your constructive criticism is always helpful, and I thank you for it. |
||||||||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||||||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group