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NEWS: Weekly Shonen Jump Editors Discuss Unauthorized Copies


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sdhd



Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Posts: 169
PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:21 pm Reply with quote
The Japanese manga publishers are behind the game of scanlation on the internet? The publishers should stop blaming internet sites and take responsibility for not utilizing the internet to its fullest potential. The publishers did not take control of the problem when it first occur and now want people to stop reading scanlation after all these years. So, due to the drop in sales the publishers are blaming the scanlation sites and crying out about how much it hurt the creators involved in producing manga (guilt trip).

CRunchyroll did at one time have 1 or 2 comic on the site by a reputable company for reading the first couple of chapters. The viewer for the comic was not user friendly. Make the viewer simple and easy to use.

Wonder if Crunchyroll is going to start a separate membership for manga.

sunflower wrote:
The actual full statement, in Japanese, and a translation can seen at Anime Vice. It seems to be pointed at those posting raws, since the message is only in Japanese.


If the raws posting are taken down from the sites that host them this will not allow scanlators to get them off the internet in the first place.


Last edited by sdhd on Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:48 pm; edited 1 time in total
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Siliva



Joined: 27 Jan 2008
Posts: 26
PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:42 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
The Japanese manga publishers are behind the game of scanlation on the internet? The publishers should stop blaming internet sites and take responsibility for not utilizing the internet to its fullest potential. The publishers did not take control of the problem when it first occur and now want people to stop reading scanlation after all these years. So, due to the drop in sales the publishers are blaming the scanlation sites and crying out about how much it hurt the creators involved in producing manga (guilt trip).

CRunchyroll did at one time have 1 or 2 comic on the site by a reputable company for reading the first couple of chapters. The viewer for the comic was not user friendly. Make the viewer simple and easy to use.

Wonder if Crunchyroll is going to start a separate membership for manga.


This makes me sick to my stomach. What if you were a manga artist, and had your only means of a living broken because a group of "fans" don't have patience? You can't simply blame everything on the publishers and attack for game. The "fans" like you are at fault for not realizing that what scanslations are is essentially stealing.
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Paploo



Joined: 21 Nov 2006
Posts: 1875
PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:47 pm Reply with quote
dark_serenity wrote:
especially when you don't know if the next volume will ever be released here in the states..


1- Check release schedules to find out when something will be released next, on publisher sites or on amazon.com

2- The only way to ensure something will continue to be released in the states is to buy it. Waiting for it to be finished, or watching from the sidelines to see if enough fans buy it to maintain a release schedule, are sort of self-destructive.
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John Casey



Joined: 31 May 2009
Posts: 1853
Location: In My Angry Center
PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:48 pm Reply with quote
This is some mad wishful thinking. :/
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ZakuAce



Joined: 06 Jan 2010
Posts: 525
Location: SE Wisconsin
PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:48 pm Reply with quote
I believe this whole issue of a "streaming" site for manga was covered in an episode of ANNcast. There's really no way to make money off of it - it's not like you can have a video ad at the beginning of a chapter like you can with streaming anime. Well, I suppose you could, but it would be even more annoying.

I wish I could remember which ANNcast it was.
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zetsuie



Joined: 21 Jul 2006
Posts: 193
PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:52 pm Reply with quote
I could either read manga scans or buy used volumes on amazon either way I'm not helping the industry.

Used sales are a huge problem for game publishers but no one ever mentions its effects on anime, since its always fan subs this scanlations that.

Fact is more and more small town bookstores are closing up.Since my Walden books closed I now live 50 miles from the nearest bookstore. The only way I'm going to buy manga on a regular basis is to shop from amazon and why the hell would I buy new when I can buy a used copy for half off.
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Draneor



Joined: 19 May 2005
Posts: 355
PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 8:57 pm Reply with quote
Dragonpiece wrote:
While I think this is wrong, I will still sadly support it since their is literally no way American fans can see the latest chapters of something until it is available in the country.


If you like the magazine, you could get a subscription to it. Plenty of websites offer them for any of the major magazines (I pick up a few myself). That wiould, of course, involve paying for it.
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YuYuUrameshi



Joined: 13 Oct 2004
Posts: 40
Location: Washington USA
PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:09 pm Reply with quote
I wouldnt care about them taking the stuff online if all their properties were up to date in America, but I would be about 3 years behind in Bleach if I was just buying (which I do). There's no way I could stand knowing there are chapters available that I haven't read yet.
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Dakaran



Joined: 17 Jul 2009
Posts: 347
PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:12 pm Reply with quote
Well I'm fine paying for it just give me quality releases in a reasonably fast time table. ^^
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Juhachi



Joined: 08 Apr 2006
Posts: 228
PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:13 pm Reply with quote
Dakaran wrote:
The manga online could be only in white and black while the sold editions are full color retaining the author's vision and giving the fans a more enjoyable reading and content to view.


Except not even the manga in Japan are printed in full color.

But really, Shueisha is only saying this now after all these years because (shock and surprise) sales are down. In fact, the publishers purposefully turned a blind eye to it because it didn't effect them adversely; rather, it made it easier for people to get into a series without having to go out and buy the magazine and/or volume in stores. Then, assuming that same person loved the manga, they may be well inclined to actually start buying the manga (maybe). Well, it worked for a number of years, but sales are down, so Shueisha is starting to stick it to the otaku finally, but it simply won't work.

The same thing happened with the anime industry. Anime companies didn't regulate uploaded episodes online and just look what happened. Now people are going to jail for uploading Gundum on Share. Of course, the same thing was happening overseas with fansubs, so now you got things like CR and simulasts abound which makes it actually feasible not to watch fansubs for certain anime. But that's the crux of the whole issue:

Only certain series ever get licensed in English

The fact of the matter is, not every series out there will be available in English, so as an anime fan, I can't deny the necessity of fansubs, just as I cannot deny the necessity of scanlators providing manga that will never EVER be officially released in English. And who do we have to rely on to provide the chapters? The same Japanese otaku that Shueisha are now cracking down on.

Okay, for certain series like One Piece, Naruto, Bleach, etc, I would say that Shueisha are well within their right to stop the otaku from uploading the raws, which of course would mean no raws for scanlators to translate into other languages, thus making the scanlation issue moot. Now, the only reason I say this is because series like those, that are already licensed and are readily available in English, don't absolutely rely on scanlations for non-Japanese fans to read them, unlike the vast majority of other, unlicensed manga out there. Yes, if a manga series I follow gets licensed, 99% of the time I'll go out and buy the volumes when they're available here because I want the added quality that comes with professional translators (the 1% of the time being for series that I like, but not enough to want to buy, but that's generally rare for me since I read so few manga; I'm only currently reading 6, and half of them are (or will be) available in English).

So, in the effort to not form a double standard, I can't say I agree with Shueisha wholeheartedly on this issue. If it can help them gain more sales, then I'm all for it, but not at the sake of the fans that support these companies. It shouldn't be the goal of these companies to alienate their customers.


Last edited by Juhachi on Sat Apr 17, 2010 3:08 am; edited 3 times in total
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Stupid Dufus



Joined: 03 Jan 2002
Posts: 7
Location: Tokyo (formerly Texas)
PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:14 pm Reply with quote
zetsuie wrote:
I could either read manga scans or buy used volumes on amazon either way I'm not helping the industry.

Used sales are a huge problem for game publishers but no one ever mentions its effects on anime, since its always fan subs this scanlations that.

Fact is more and more small town bookstores are closing up.Since my Walden books closed I now live 50 miles from the nearest bookstore. The only way I'm going to buy manga on a regular basis is to shop from amazon and why the hell would I buy new when I can buy a used copy for half off.


As you mention, used sales are a big problem for the videogame industry, as well as anime and manga. And the reason it's a problem? Because people want to buy something the cheapest way possible, in this case used. The problem is that money from this revenue stream does not funnel back to the publishers' or creators' pockets.

Yes, you can buy used on Amazon or some other place. To answer your question of why you would want to purchase full price: So the money goes back to the publishers and creators. They then have an income to live off of and produce more creative goods for you to consume.

It's nice to see how the anime industry has embraced online video streaming through sites like Crunchyroll. I hope the higher-ups in the manga industry can get together and find a cheap way to do something similar for manga fans so that we don't have to buy used copies just so we can read manga cheaply.
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vashfanatic



Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 3489
Location: Back stateside
PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:15 pm Reply with quote
Well, that kind of sucks, since I enjoy reading the works in their original Japanese and importing can be a pain. Still, I did always worry about having these raw scans available on the internet, where native Japanese can download them. I doubt this will affect groups that do older/more unusual (and hence unlicensed) works where they purchase copies to scan for themselves and never post the raws. If we have to learn to be patient... well, it'll take some getting used to, but so it goes.
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Dakaran



Joined: 17 Jul 2009
Posts: 347
PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:30 pm Reply with quote
I'll be seriously speaking here guys, I watched what over 500 series total i haven't updated in a great while my ANN anime list but I watch series daily and weekly. I feel now is the time to give back to the creators after watching all that so I worked around finding my way on internet to the official stores and cdjapan after crafting a list of my want to buy products.

Keep in mind that I'm buying their DVDs and Blu-ray series as cash comes up to availability for more anime. I'm collector at heart and fan too, so here I think after a while other people would also do the same for their favorite shows and books.

I'm totally supporter of authors but they should utilize 100% of the internet to spread more around the world their works. Aniplex just started here in north America As it was announced on ANN I checked it out, and I found it amazingly cool the poster to show off as an ad for the movies and boost sales so I went to their Youtube channels (added them to my subs and saw the stuff for sales on BANDAI store), moved on to BANDAI's store and saw many cool things I wanted so I got them there.

It's just a chain and they got to USE THAT CHAIN ^^
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Ohoni



Joined: 10 Jun 2003
Posts: 3421
PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:33 pm Reply with quote
Quote:

It's a whole different situation. First off, many scanlators aren't as concerned with quality and copyediting--it's not uncommon to find mistakes, mistranslations, and bad editing in a scanlation; even ones who are, it's rare to find anything that will match the quality of a good publisher.


If you want quality then you wait for the Viz releases. If you want speed then you go with the fanscans, everybody wins. But you can't tell me that "just wait for the Viz releases" would ever be a valid alternative to fanscans to people who DO care about speed over quality. There are two different products on offer, and they can't convince people to abandon the fanscans until they're prepared to release both quality AND speed themselves.
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sdhd



Joined: 27 Nov 2007
Posts: 169
PostPosted: Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:38 pm Reply with quote
Siliva wrote:
Quote:
The Japanese manga publishers are behind the game of scanlation on the internet? The publishers should stop blaming internet sites and take responsibility for not utilizing the internet to its fullest potential. The publishers did not take control of the problem when it first occur and now want people to stop reading scanlation after all these years. So, due to the drop in sales the publishers are blaming the scanlation sites and crying out about how much it hurt the creators involved in producing manga (guilt trip).

CRunchyroll did at one time have 1 or 2 comic on the site by a reputable company for reading the first couple of chapters. The viewer for the comic was not user friendly. Make the viewer simple and easy to use.

Wonder if Crunchyroll is going to start a separate membership for manga.


This makes me sick to my stomach. What if you were a manga artist, and had your only means of a living broken because a group of "fans" don't have patience? You can't simply blame everything on the publishers and attack for game. The "fans" like you are at fault for not realizing that what scanslations are is essentially stealing.


I was speaking from the view point as to why publisher failed the authors/artists by not having control of their content. The manga publishers let this problem go until now for whatever reasons. So for the company to plea that it is hurting the creators is the same as the music publishers saying it is hurting the artist and song writers. This problem should have been tackle a long time ago when the internet appeared. The publisher did nothing like the music companies. So for the publisher to cry foul is mainly their own fault today.

You can not blame the fans who read scanlation for the companies lack of foresight. The internet is all about instant gratification due to real time that the internet offer the users. People want their manga that they are currently following. All the publishers need to do is give the fans a legal way of getting their manga fix by charging a subscription fee. The problem is fix.

You are missing a big point in that only the so called popular manga will get license in the U.S. which leaves a lot of manga to go unnoticed because they are not the current trend that sell.

If I was a manga artists I would use the internet to publish my manga online, on cellphone, e-reader, and a hard copy with goodies that can not be replicate on the electronic version. Money can be earn in more than one way. The audience is not just the bookworm it is everyone who enjoys reading and want the format(s) that fits his/her lifestyle.

VIZ and the American companies need to do more advertising. Without advertising how the heck are the manga suppose to sell. The fans are selective in what they buy. Getting new consumers should be the goal of the publishers instead of relying on the word of mouth when some fans are frugal with their money. The publisher should promote and sell the manga like get the author/artist to come and speak about their manga at cons. By promoting the author/artists it is also promoting the manga.


Last edited by sdhd on Fri Apr 16, 2010 9:55 pm; edited 4 times in total
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