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NEWS: Tokyo Governor: 'Nonexistent Youth' Bill Needs Changes


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shaggyglasses



Joined: 18 Sep 2009
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 5:07 pm Reply with quote
i would appreciate it that they rewrite this bill or make public the guidelines that they use to determine the appropriateness of certain manga/anime. it's difficult to pick a side when the bill is extremely vague.

do it right or don't do it at all.
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darksharingan



Joined: 16 Jul 2009
Posts: 106

PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 5:47 pm Reply with quote
I think they should just leave things as they are until they are sure about what their goal is.

Are the regulating the distribution of these works to certain people or are they regulating what should be published altogether?

Really really vague.
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Otaku_X



Joined: 25 Nov 2008
Posts: 298

PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 5:50 pm Reply with quote
shaggyglasses wrote:
i would appreciate it that they rewrite this bill or make public the guidelines that they use to determine the appropriateness of certain manga/anime. it's difficult to pick a side when the bill is extremely vague.

do it right or don't do it at all.


Aren't "Do it right" and "Don't do it at all" the same thing?
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Fronzel



Joined: 11 Sep 2003
Posts: 1316

PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 6:02 pm Reply with quote
Quote:
He cited the phrase "nonexistent youths" as a key example, and said that the newly invented term makes people wonder, "Are they talking about ghosts or something?"

He says he supports it, but is he mocking it?

I approve.
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AntiActivist



Joined: 03 May 2010
Posts: 3

PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 6:08 pm Reply with quote
Most of the problem with this law, is due to the fact the police in Japan are well known for their abuse of the laws and power available to them. The vague nature of the descriptions used in this bill will allow the police to interpret the law in any manner they see fit to apprehend anyone they please.

For example, here's a recent situation of police abusing their power that was made public:
http://www.sankakucomplex.com/​2010/​05/​07/​lynched-​chikan-​commits-​suicide/​ [NSFW]

This abuse of power happens regularly in Japan, which is why it's rare for rape or molestation crimes to occur there. If a vindictive woman had falsely accused a man of rape because she was angry with him, the police will immediately imprison the accused and label him as a rapist without any actual evidence or investigation. Most of the time they will force the accused to make a false confession from hours of interrogation. Japanese citizens are even unable to find any lawyers in Japan to file lawsuits against the police, because they know they'll lose since judges in Japan will always side with the police.

The abuse of power by the police is the main reason why over 80% of Japanese citizens are against this bill. Majority of the citizens there hates the idea that this bill's vague description will allow the police to have more power to abuse and arrest anyone they please. There's too many ways this bill can be loosely interpreted by the police and it will influence future productions for anime, manga, AV, etc. Japanese parents are even worrying about having photos of their own children in their homes, if it involves swimwear, bathing, etc. They may end up having to dispose their precious memories if this bill was passed.
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Splitter



Joined: 19 May 2003
Posts: 1191
Location: Knockin' on Heaven's Door

PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 6:15 pm Reply with quote
AntiActivist wrote:

This abuse of power happens regularly in Japan, which is why it's rare for rape or molestation crimes to occur there. If a vindictive woman had falsely accused a man of rape because she was angry with him, the police will immediately imprison the accused and label him as a rapist without any actual evidence or investigation. Most of the time they will force the accused to make a false confession from hours of interrogation. Japanese citizens are even unable to find any lawyers in Japan to file lawsuits against the police, because they know they'll lose since judges in Japan will always side with the police.


Suddenly, Rainbow makes a whole lot more sense to me.
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the Rancorous



Joined: 08 Feb 2006
Posts: 2248
Location: Hunting the Dragon in Gransys

PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 6:15 pm Reply with quote
Otaku_X wrote:
shaggyglasses wrote:
do it right or don't do it at all.

Aren't "Do it right" and "Don't do it at all" the same thing?

I don't see what's so wrong with it if they're just wanting to slap an age restriction on 'who can buy it,' in America we restrict minors from going to rated R movies. Also, most retailers won't sell MA rated DVDs to minors. They can have whatever content the makers want to put in them (well, that's legal anyways), they just can't be sold to minors.

But I do agree that this bill needs to be made much more clear so we can tell exactly what they are doing as well as how they would go about determining what is inappropriate to minors.
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Otaku_X



Joined: 25 Nov 2008
Posts: 298

PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 6:37 pm Reply with quote
the Rancorous wrote:
Otaku_X wrote:
shaggyglasses wrote:
do it right or don't do it at all.

Aren't "Do it right" and "Don't do it at all" the same thing?

I don't see what's so wrong with it if they're just wanting to slap an age restriction on 'who can buy it,' in America we restrict minors from going to rated R movies. Also, most retailers won't sell MA rated DVDs to minors. They can have whatever content the makers want to put in them (well, that's legal anyways), they just can't be sold to minors.

But I do agree that this bill needs to be made much more clear so we can tell exactly what they are doing as well as how they would go about determining what is inappropriate to minors.


Well, restricting what age you have to be to buy something makes sense.
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Gilles Poitras



Joined: 05 Apr 2008
Posts: 365
Location: Oakland California

PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 6:49 pm Reply with quote
"The current draft of the Tokyo bill would prohibit sexualized depictions of "nonexistent youths" — such as in manga, anime, and other materials — from being sold to minors."

So many prose works, novels and non-fiction could also be banned. "Sorry kid, you're just 17 and not a legal adult until you turn 20. You can't read this Lolita novel by some guy named Nabokov."
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MechR



Joined: 08 May 2010
Posts: 13

PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 6:55 pm Reply with quote
the Rancorous wrote:
I don't see what's so wrong with it if they're just wanting to slap an age restriction on 'who can buy it,' in America we restrict minors from going to rated R movies. Also, most retailers won't sell MA rated DVDs to minors. They can have whatever content the makers want to put in them (well, that's legal anyways), they just can't be sold to minors.

But those aren't laws, they're voluntary measures taken by the movie industry and stores. Similarly, laws attempting to restrict game sales to minors have been repeatedly struck down by federal courts as unconstitutional. (Now the Supreme Court is going to be looking at the issue, which should be interesting.)
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mrsatan



Joined: 06 Jul 2005
Posts: 470
Location: Olympia, WA

PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 9:17 pm Reply with quote
Gilles Poitras wrote:
So many prose works, novels and non-fiction could also be banned. "Sorry kid, you're just 17 and not a legal adult until you turn 20. You can't read this Lolita novel by some guy named Nabokov."


Governor Ishihara himself used to write novels about rebellious young people having casual sex. (Like Season of the Sun.) Someone should go through all his novels and see if any of his own stuff falls into this banned category.
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shaggyglasses



Joined: 18 Sep 2009
Posts: 46

PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 9:37 pm Reply with quote
mrsatan wrote:
Gilles Poitras wrote:
So many prose works, novels and non-fiction could also be banned. "Sorry kid, you're just 17 and not a legal adult until you turn 20. You can't read this Lolita novel by some guy named Nabokov."


Governor Ishihara himself used to write novels about rebellious young people having casual sex. (Like Season of the Sun.) Someone should go through all his novels and see if any of his own stuff falls into this banned category.

the bill won't affect novels as Dan said on his website. the core idea, from what i read on Dan's website, is to restrict minors from visual depictions of underage (or like underage) characters in explicit sexual acts that doesn't further the story plot of the manga/anime or has no relevance what so ever. however, with that said, the bill is to vague and people can decide to pick any piece of work and label it as inappropriate for children.

i have not read season of the sun so is it possible for you to explain to me the nature of sex in the novel.
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configspace



Joined: 16 Aug 2008
Posts: 2884

PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 10:18 pm Reply with quote
The nonexistent youth bill doesn't need changes--it needs to get scrapped completely.

Remember, porn is already restricted. This basically tries to expand that restriction into non-porn territory. As for persons under 18 buying it--who cares? We already allow them responsibility of driving and working so why not allow them or their parents to make the decision themselves for something that is decidedly harmless?

In addition, it's ironic because it only covers characters who appear or sound under 18 (.. which can never be objectively determined of course ..), but it won't restrict works which includes non-porn/adult sexual depictions of persons who appear or sound over 18!

edit:
the Rancorous wrote:
I don't see what's so wrong with it if they're just wanting to slap an age restriction on 'who can buy it,' in America we restrict minors from going to rated R movies. Also, most retailers won't sell MA rated DVDs to minors. They can have whatever content the makers want to put in them (well, that's legal anyways), they just can't be sold to minors.

Actually there's no such restriction imposed by the government and any such attempt to put it into law has always been struck down as unconstitutional. It's the theaters in accordance to the MPAA that does the age checking. Anyone can buy R-rated videos on their own just fine.

Quote:
But I do agree that this bill needs to be made much more clear so we can tell exactly what they are doing as well as how they would go about determining what is inappropriate to minors.

Nothing against you personally, but I am really tired of this persistent idea (which have been fought against by American founding fathers and many liberty minded persons) that the a group of people or even the majority of society feels so compelled to force, to impose their ideas, their own beliefs about what is or isn't appropriate on another group of people--in this case young adults--who are perfectly capable of making that decision for themselves or with their own families, for matters that affect no one but the willing participant.
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enurtsol



Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 10620

PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 10:55 pm Reply with quote
Why are Westerners wanting to interfere with Japanese internal affairs? Laughing

BTW, the age of majority in Japan is currently at 20, with talks of lowering it down to 18.
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Altare



Joined: 26 Apr 2010
Posts: 37

PostPosted: Sat May 08, 2010 11:47 pm Reply with quote
I always say, "If there's no victim (feelings and yourself don't count) then there is no reason for it to be a crime."
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