Forum - View topicNEWS: U.S., Japanese Publishers Unite Against Manga Scan Sites
|
Goto page Previous Next Note: this is the discussion thread for this article |
| Author | Message | |||||||||||||||
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
agila61
 Posts: 3213 Location: NE Ohio |
|
|||||||||||||||
Forcing the piracy into dank back alleys where its harder to find and harder to view is the goal of an enforcement sweep. If making enforcement difficult requires making it difficult for anonymous browsers to gain access to the lockers, that's a win for legit distributors. |
||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||
|
PetrifiedJello
Posts: 3782 |
|
|||||||||||||||
Retailer? In what way does the retailer have anything to do with print on demand? The entire point of on demand is to remove the retailer. If retailers are used in this model, then I'll confess it's complete news to me. If true, then that's an even bigger problem and it's a good reason why this model failed. Why the hell should anyone pay for retailer cost when the on demand shop would have shipped directly to the customer? That's the entire point of on demand. Goodness. No wonder this industry is dying slowly and painfully. They're too busy paying too many people which don't deserve it. More power to them.
You just don't get it, agila61. This is not forcing them into dark alleys. Digital lockers were in dark alleys. Now, they're coming into the light and used in conjunction with sites. Here's how it works: Person loads content into digital locker, which is purposely kept from Google's indexing robots. Person creates many websites. Some offer content directly. Some offer subscription models. Some offer direct buy option. Unsuspecting person. Sees that it's professional looking, especially since many are built with subscription and/or download payment requests. Hey, if you have to pay for it, it has to be legit, right? MPAA/RIAA sees site. Freaks the [bleep] out. Again. Rushes lawyers to DMCA their ass. The site laughs. Lawsuit ensues. Laughingly, site is purposely taken down and a new one added. By the time the MPAA/RIAA finds all the sites, the new ones have time to blossom and hit that infamous Google indexing robot. Now multiply the above example times 50. 100. 1000. Do you understand now? The digital locker is the absolute worse thing these industries face because the content never gets taken down, unlike aggregator/file-sharing sites. Filesharing sites have traceable IP addresses. Digital lockers don't. These lockers have been around for nearly 10 years. I'd say that's "dark alley", wouldn't you? They're not anymore, all thanks to businesses freakin' out over the internet. |
||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||
CCSYueh
 Posts: 2707 Location: San Diego, CA |
|
|||||||||||||||
That's where it stops. If you are charging for creating a wallpaper just because you added some effects to a picture or a bunch of pictures you are over the line. Most of the wallpapers I've stolen are off the official sites where they are up for free. It's advertising. I have some old 3X3 Eyes wallpapers someone created & put a signature on, but they were also free. My daughter would sell pictures to other kids at school she had drawn herself (I didn't approve, but no one said she couldn't so whatever). Most were original, but she'd draw freehand anime characters when asked for a couple bucks. This was fanart basically so she wasn't really stealing though it was copyright infringement, but on a pretty small scale (one school). She eventually reached a point she really disliked drawing other people's characters & only wanted to draw her own so the issue went away. There was once incident that bothered her when a girl bought a picture, then went around claiming she had drawn it herself. I pointed out the girl was cutting her own throat because there should be no way for the girl to draw in my daughter's style. And now my daughter spends her days playing WoW & creating art of WoW types (her original Blood Elf, etc) and going to college.
I thought most fansubs were recorded off Japanese broadcast, subbed & posted. This is not getting a clip off Funi & posting it. This is recording a show & sharing it with other which, in the US at least, isn't legal as I understand the Sony decision (for personal home use only one can record a show). I've never gone to Hula or Crunchyroll. Even if I had the time, I dislike Crunchyroll's origin. I've only ever watched one anime ep online & that was a Sgt Frog here to hear the voices on the first ep. (Maybe it was the Funi site...Can't recall. I linked from here is all I remember). I just started One Piece Season 2 Set 7, then I have the Persona & Toradora sets to check out to see if they need to go back, Shura No Toki, Gundam whatever Stardust memories, Gundam 00 Season 2 set 1, & Xenosomething-or-other. Oh & Aquarion. I might manage to get thru them all when I go on vacation in a couple weeks.
That's only because the people doing this aren't respecting the rights of the owner. Just because you like Naruto doesn't mean you have any right to the dvd's content, much less the fansub you downloaded, so you have no right beyond viewing & maybe backing up that dvd. You have no right to loan it to your friends for 3 bucks. You can't charge people to show it at a party unless you get permission. These are all laws well known to most anyone who cares to ask. ComicCon International will not show any anime without the permission of the licensee of the product because they don't want the various licensees to cease doing business with them for future cons. (They also likely don't want to get into legal hassles) It's a mindset, really. We all see those cars on the side of the road selling stuff we know is likely illegal somehow. There's a reason the seller isn't going through an official channel & very often the buyer is not getting the "steal" he thinks he's getting.
That's what makes me iffy about ITunes & stuff. I pay for it & they store it for me, but what happens if they go away? (Hey, could happen.) I have my cds. I don't really trust a digital copy I don't have a solid copy of. But as I recall the issue was someone was selling some titles they thought were public domain & they weren't. That's sort of fansubbers territory (not properly securing rights) I was looking at Wiki's entry on Woodie Guthrie the other day & apparently some corporation had swooped in & bought the copyright to a bunch of his titles & tried to say they owned some of his songs they actually didn't own-the songs in question had lapsed into public domain. (If a company can afford a high-priced lawyer to advise them to do stuff like that one would expect that lawyer to research before he embarrasses the company with a wrong lawsuit).
I have no problem with letting them move at their own speed. If they don't change, they will become extinct, but I fully disagree they owe the public digital content or whatever. I finally got a cell phone last month (because there are no public phones left). I fought it forever because, having been an operator, the idea of dragging a phone around on my person (ie-one can't get away from whatever) was the last thing I wanted, plus the idiots who try to kill me on a daily basis with the stupid things glued to their ears as I slam on my brakes to avoid them was hardly a shining advertisement. In that month, I have made 1 call & taken 1 call. I actually have a portable telegraph device for texting! (Wild Wild West! Yeah!) And I don't have to know Morse Code!
Not. He's male. It's always on the mind, whether he gets it or not. 
I thought there was something about a video posted on some whistleblower website which allegedly showed civilians getting killed (although how one can tell a civilian in a grainy video is beyond me. Look at those spies they busted this week.) It's also the change in attitude. In the past the press was a bit more willing some stuff needed to be left unseen/unsaid (like Kennedy's alleged ladies traipsing into the White House) while now they're not above staging or editing to make more sensational clips they air. Going back to Zac & the Funi guy, ANN knows they can't burn Funi printing leaked info. Look at the comment they knew about this a couple weeks before it broke & were trying to get official word. ANN isn't some tabloid willing to post any tidbit for the scandal & not worried about having to print a retraction later. That's why I trust stuff I see here presented as news vs stuff some thread on some board by some poster claiming to work for one of the companies.
You've made your choice. You are likely a small percentage. A lot of adults do grow out of buying music, etc. I know I bought way more before my daughter was born & since she was born, I've probably bought a dozen cds for myself (she's almost 20. Yeah, I bought her a lot of cds). Suddenly parenthood infringed on spare cash for entertainment. The radio works for fresh music. I have my cds from the '80's & the handful I've bought since(Metallica, Nickelback, Creed, Foo Fighters, Goo Goo Dolls, Staind). It is cheaper for mass printing. THe whole vanity press thing has been around foever. I have a family history of a branch of the family that was $50 per volume to cover the cost of the small print run. I have vague memory of Poe doing some vanity presses in a bio I read. But the whole cost thing isn't set in stone. TRSI regularly sells manga for $6. I've always assumed this is because they've cut a deal for those manufacturer sales to allow both parties to make some sort of money on the deal not unlike Coke or Pepsi offering deals to grocery stores for their product to be sold at a reduced rate. When I told a local retailer what I pay regularly for manga from TRSI he was flabbergasted because that would be below cost to him. |
||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||
|
agila61
Posts: 3213 Location: NE Ohio |
|
|||||||||||||||
How is this different from any other pure aggregator site? You don't bother DCMA'ing the pure aggregator, you use it as a database for the storage location of the bootleg content. If the site makes the stream available to any anonymous browser, it publicizes the storage location of the stream. When the storage location of the stream is be taken down, the front end shell that the leech streaming site presents to the world is suddenly full of dead or "taken down for copyright infringement" links. Hiding the storage location from the search engines does not hide the contents - either the streaming site hides itself, or it publicizes itself and provides the contents of the storage location already sorted and indexed by which infringing property is being bootlegged in which file. Once the script for a streaming site is written, one person working one day can mine thousands of links to storage locations. |
||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||
|
Ohoni
Posts: 3421 |
|
|||||||||||||||
It's not that they owe the public digital content. It's that they owe it to themselves to provide the public with what they want, otherwise the public is just going to go elsewhere to get it. They don't have the option of digital content not being available, all they can control is whether they're a source for it (with an attached revenue stream), or not. |
||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||
|
Paploo
Posts: 1875 |
|
|||||||||||||||
|
Actually, some limited run/selfpublished use POD technology and are distributed to mass market retailers. It's more economical for some publishers/writers who are just starting out, though many still use offset printers because it's cheaper.
And you're still ignoring the point I made re:where the 9 bucks goes. Unless this was your reply to that-
.................. so should we tell your boss that? [no idea what quality of work you provide, just pointing out to you what a callous statement the above is] Anyhoo, if anyone's looking for an update on the situation, blogger Kimi has posted short interviews with some scanlators regardding Mangageddon- http://reddeerforum.co.uk/?p=211 http://manga.about.com/b/2010/07/01/anime-expo-2010-thursdays-manga-highlights.htm And also, I imagine some news will come out of AnimeExpo regarding the plans for Mangageddon. I imagine ANN will posts any big news if it does pop up |
||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||
|
sweetbb
Posts: 2 |
|
|||||||||||||||
|
I don't understand news ANN :
and after we can see :
So, the organization includes japanese publisher Square Enix but the company is not a membrer of the Digital Comic Association ? |
||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||
|
ROFLMAN
Posts: 1 |
|
|||||||||||||||
|
omg i can't stop laughing owww my sides hurt. iv read most of the posts in this thread and i rofl at just how many people are playing the goody too shoes. lol once again and hears the really funny thing. theses sites will always pop up. you shut one down and 10 new ones pop up. forcing these sites to shut down is not going to solve the problem. if you really want to stop illegal scanning of manga. perhaps you should make it available to everyone. as many of you know. most manga does not make it to an English version. there are many older manga that i so do enjoy. and as stated by many of you on this thread there just about impossible to find. well anyway its because of these sites that many people find and fall in love with manga. i for one admit that if it were not for onemanga i would probably not have an interest in it for the fact that it is not so easily found where i live. well hears what I thin k should happen. 1. work with known sites to bring new and old manga. i feel it should be up to the Manga's CREATOR to decide what happens next.
as you can see im not a fan of Licencing as it restricts who can enjoy the manga. REMEMBER this is my honest opinion. P.S. i recently bought myself a flame suit now it's time to see if it works. |
||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||
|
agila61
Posts: 3213 Location: NE Ohio |
|
|||||||||||||||
|
This is hilarious:
"Leaving it up to the Manga's creator" includes giving the creator the right to contract that out to publishers so the mangaka can focus on creating manga. If the creator does not have the right to restrict the manga to distributors who pay for the privilege ... that is the opposite of leaving it "up to the Manga's CREATOR to decide what happens next." |
||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||
|
shoshanna_mozzor
Posts: 1 |
|
|||||||||||||||
it dosnt have to be over. tell every one! sign the petition http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/SaveManga/sign/ 
|
||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||
|
dcw2021
Posts: 1 |
|
|||||||||||||||
|
If someone has to step up and admit themselves to be the bad guy, then I will. For years I have read manga for free online that I have known, or at least believed to be, pirated. The number of series I have read is over 50 while the number I have purchased is only 4.
In my defense, I am currently a college student with no job so spending money is hard to come by. But boo-hoo, I could spend more time studying and less time fantasizing over the panty flashes and nose bleeds of ecchi manga. I do occasionally comfort myself by promising to pay the creators back, either by buying the manga after college or a donation of some kind, but whether or not I keep good on those promises is to be seen. I also try to place blame on the publishers for not making the manga more available. After all, I did not start out pirating. No, my first manga experience was simply barrowing one from a friend in school, “Ranma ½” if you must know. I was hooked by the second volume and when to the store to by the third but they didn't have it. Granted they had other volumes in the series, but I wanted to know what happened next, not what I just read and not what will happen later. Yes, I could have requested they call me when the next shipment came in or order it online. But I was addicted and I wanted to know what happened next now! So what did I do? I searched for it on Google and behold, my first pirate site. It was just a slippery slope from there. It wasn’t my fault, they didn’t have what I wanted. Bull…, exercising a little patience could have gotten me what I wanted. Let’s face it, I am impatient, but that does not make pirating right, does not necessarily make it wrong but definitely not right. Did reading the pirated manga make me any more or less likely to buy manga? Yes and no, hard to say. I am not really a good judge because I am more of an anime person, and I am rather good about purchasing anime once it has become dubbed, even after watching it fan subbed. But I say no because manga is different than anime. Manga does not change much from its pirated version to its English release like anime does; anime gets new voices and you don’t have to read while manga generally only gets a slightly different translation. And I say yes because you cannot want something you do not know about. I read originally read “He is my Master” from pirate sites and loved it so much that I bought it the moment I saw it on books shelves; and I would have bought the anime if they bothered to dub it, I am still sore over “He is my Master” and “Hayate the Combat Butler” and I refuse to buy un-dubbed anime. At what point manga scans change from good advertisement to out-right pirating is not always clear and it varies between people and manga. Another issue that needs to be dealt with is, let’s face it, there are some manga that will never make it to the states legitimately. If a manga does not do well in Japan, it is unlikely that it will be worth the time, money, and effort to translate it and put it on shelves. If the author is not going to make any money off of it anyway, is it really fair to deny it to anyone who might become interested with just a passing glance? I know of a few manga that I got into with only a glace which might not make it to America, “Marugoto Anjyu Gakuen” is one that comes to mind off the top of my head. However, manga writers have a right to make money off their works just as singers have a right to make money off their songs, authors off their books, artist off their paintings, and so on and so forth. If they cannot make any money then there is less incentive to create the work which means less for everyone to enjoy, and I don’t want that. I do not care about the big companies and you may be able to argue that they do not lose money from the pirating; but if the original creators end up hurting because of pirating, then by all rights it should stop. But one has to wonder, with all the useless junk we as American’s buy, why do we pirate in the first place? We buy T-shirts, giant foam fingers, we will even pay just so we do not have to walk, why do we draw the line at music, videos, and manga? I occasionally try to answer this question during a brief moment of guilt that occurs after months of reading pirated manga without as much as a second thought. The reason, I believe, is because we get mixed messages; we pay for the cable once a month but otherwise watch as much TV as we want for free, we buy a radio but otherwise get to listen to the music played on it for free, and we can go to the public library to read for free. We pay for internet, read thousands of articles off various websites, why are manga scans and music downloads not perfectly fair and legal? Because, my little children, advertisement pays for our TV and radio, and why manga companies have not decided to make and expanded version of what pirate sites do to pay for their hosting fees is beyond me. Another question that pops up is when does sharing turn into pirating? Sure one person passing a good manga around a class room is innocent enough, but what about scanning your favorite manga onto your MySpace page for your two thousand friends to view? And why not? You paid for it, so it is yours to share with whoever you want; even if you want to share it with the whole world, it’s a good book and you believe everyone must read it. Even with various copyright laws, it can be hard to tell exactly how you are allowed to share something, especially with the internet involved. The question is where to draw the line? Will it eventually become illegal to read over someone’s shoulder? You can call me a socialist, but I believe that certain things should be free and I believe information is one of them and everything that ends up on the internet is nothing more than information. The problem of the internet making it so easy to illegally copy and distribute information is only one of many vastly connected problems in the world today. If someone asked you, “what does technology do?” you would probably respond, “it makes life easier.” And it does, so long as it is making everyone’s life easier and not just someone’s life easier. I don’t want to stray too far from anime and manga, so I will end by simply saying that the world as a whole has to change the way things are done. |
||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||
|
Shiroi Hane
Encyclopedia Editor
 Posts: 7580 Location: Wales |
|
|||||||||||||||
I'm not a fan of ticket booths because they restrict me from walking into cinemas and theme parks. Besides, I don't think you understand what licensing means at all. Something being "unlicensed" doesn't make it free game any more than it becoming "licensed" suddenly makes it "more illegal"* to partake of for free. Licensing something serves to make it available in the area or language for which it is licensed. Before the internet there would be very few people who would even know a title existed before it was licensed and released in English** Just because information is now widely available and it is possible to bypass the normal distribution channels doesn't make anyone entitled to have something in the shortest time possible and at no cost. * I use the term "illegal" loosely, because I am not a lawyer and "more of a copyright infringement" is a mouthful. ** ..and when I first had internet access in University in the late 90s I looked up some titles on Altavista I was familiar with from seeing them as a child - I found a single page on Laputa, a single page on Cities of Gold and a single mention of Ulysses 31. |
||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||
|
Desthion
Posts: 1 |
|
|||||||||||||||
|
I understand the fact that it is wrong to read manga scans but listen from the point of view from someone who used to read them. The manga release time in America is to long a wait for really good title such as naruto one piece bleach. I would buy manga from stores if the would release them weekly such as some sites such as one manga do but listen what is the point of buying the manga even if you enjoy it and like the series whats the point if you're only going to read it once i mean sometimes i reread manga but most of the time people only read a chapter once .
|
||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||
|
mad mac
Posts: 186 |
|
|||||||||||||||
Well, that's the second issue. Obviously there is a sizable amount of people who can't stand waiting two years to catch up to the Japanese release (which is then another two years ahead) and so you get kids who just really liked some manga they bought in the store evolving into another scan reader. (Personally I'll read ahead and then buy it when it comes out, but I don't read many series to begin with and I'm not going to pretend everyone does the same.) It's not feasible (or desirable) for Publishers to print every series at a rate where it can catch up to the Japanese release. Hopefully, a digital initiative can bridge the gap and reduce the lag times between U.S. and Japanese release times. Everyone likes to talk about those noble, obscure, unlicensed series and I can fully empathize, but lets face it. Putting out the hottest chapters of Naruto, Bleach, and so on is what drove the success of the aggregate sites to begin with and providing a legal alternative really should be a top priority for U.S. publishers if they want to drain the swamp in the long term. |
||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||
|
akidra
Posts: 1 |
|
|||||||||||||||
|
Although I understand why they'd want to take out sites like onemanga and mangafox, I'd be sad if they did. I do tend to get manga straight from the scanlators, but it can be hard to keep track of all of the little groups.
I buy the manga I like when they're released in English, but most of what I read is shoujo-ai or yuri which simply doesn't seem to get released. When they do release manga in English it all seems to be shoujo manga, which I generally don't like because the stories seem the same to me. I buy it if I like the author though, because I feel bad for reading their work online. If they released shoujo-ai manga in English I'd gladly buy it and stop reading it online completely. If I could, I'd even try to learn Japanese, but learning online just doesn't seem to work well for me and there are no classes in my area. |
||||||||||||||||
|
||||||||||||||||
 |
All times are GMT - 5 Hours |
|
|
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group