Forum - View topicANNCast - The Eldred Scrolls
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Greed1914
 Posts: 4426 |
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Yeah, I bet that just makes people feel warm and fuzzy. |
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penguintruth
 Posts: 8461 Location: Penguinopolis |
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And it still turned out to be the best Gundam anime. |
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Charred Knight
 Posts: 3085 |
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That's your opinion. I found Titans to be the worst main villains in the entire franchise because they had no depth, they where just the SS in space. It also created plot holes because you have to question how the Earth Federation could be so incompetent as to let the Titans basically take over the place even though every last member where all insane. It wasn't bad, but the highlight of the series was the Neo Zeon subplot. Personally I wouldn't even put it in the top 5 as Gundam Seed, MSG, Gundam 0080, Turn A Gundam, and G Gundam where all better. |
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jsevakis
Former ANN Editor in Chief
 Posts: 1684 Location: Los Angeles, CA |
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(gives SoandSo a cookie) I'll save my thoughts for the show for when I finish it, I guess. |
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penguintruth
Posts: 8461 Location: Penguinopolis |
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As I've explained to you on numerous occasions, the Federation government doesn't care what goes on in space as long as it can't be traced back to them and as long as they don't have to do deal with it. They just want the people in space to STFU and not attack them, and have no problem giving maniacs like Jamitov full reign because they're selfish dicks. They don't realize just what horror they unleashed until the Dekar episode, but by then they've already given all their power to the Titans and it's too late. It's no worse than the Federation being so incompetent as to hold a navel revue after a nuclear weapon has been stolen from them in Gundam 0083, and then not allowing the Albion to stop a space colony from being dropped onto North America's bread basket. Or in ZZ, letting Haman drop a colony onto Dublin to reduce the population of the planet, thus making it easier to control them. Most of the time the Federation is merely the lesser evil. And the Titans aren't intended to have depth in of themselves the depth comes from the circumstances behind the Titans and some of the specific Titans, like Jerid Messa. It's laughable that you would place a series with NO PERSONALITY whatsoever like Gundam SEED above a masterpiece like Zeta. SEED played out like no effort whatsoever was put into the production or story. The characters are bland, the art is bland, the action is bland, and the premise is absolutely brain dead. They never even explore the morality of genetic engineering, they just give you a poor victim to sympathize with, and then have to make the villains over-the-top because the victims are so lifeless and unlikeable you almost side with the villains. That you could place that above Zeta shows how irrelevant your opinion of it is. I could see maybe Gundam 0080 or Turn A Gundam, those two are excellent. But SEED is just so shallow and stupid, it's only good compared to its slightly worse sequel. |
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CG-LOVER
 Posts: 355 Location: East Lansing, MI |
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Oh wow it's so funny to me that Tim suggested watching the original Gundam all the way through Char's Counterattack, because that's exactly what I just finished doing not too long ago!
Yeah, lucky for me I got to watch the original Gundam and Zeta Gundam back when Sunrise had those shows up on YouTube when they were promoting Gundam Unicorn. Then I liked those so much that I kept going and watched ZZ, and then I bought and watched Char's Counterattack. Of course for me I'm not stopping. I just finished watching War in the Pocket and now I'm going to continue on to watch Gundam F91 soon. So it goes without saying that I agree completely with what he is saying because it's exactly what happened to me. Before I watched the original series I had fallen in love with Gundam 00, and knowing that this show was a spin-off I had wondered where it all began. Going back and watching these shows is definitely worthwhile so if you can find some way to do so I'd start watching right away! Concerning the rest of the podcast, I also agree completely about the "checklist" comment about movies. I'm so sick of people just criticizing something for every little thing it doesn't have that was in the original when there are so many other great things that it does have. The same problem obviously exists whenever the industry turns a manga into an anime. People need to stop being so picky. Oh and I don't care about what anyone else says, but Utena is just waaay too screwed up for my tastes. I couldn't get much more than half way through it, in fact I refuse to finish that show...it might just make me puke. Last edited by CG-LOVER on Fri Jul 16, 2010 9:56 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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walw6pK4Alo
 Posts: 9322 |
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Personally, my favorite Takahashi anime so far is FLAG. You have a very clear story that again feels based on current events, yet different enough to be original. And the way its told through only photos and viewfinders is pretty unheard in anime. If nothing else, this anime reminded me heavily of things like Black Hawk Down or other wars stories you end up in the middle of it.
As for Layzner, the group subbing it now is only so far, and it's going to be a while before they finish. I highly doubt it would get picked up for streaming like some Matsumoto titles, there's no real precedent for these old mecha to receive anything more than a small fanbase who seek them out. |
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ikillchicken
 Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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That's interesting. Personally, my boundary for anime is about the mid 80s. I plan to one day tackle some of those really old Scifi shows like Votoms, Yamato and the original Gundam as well as other older stuff like Lupin and City Hunter. Right now though I've just got so much more modern stuff that I don't want to tackle anything so massive.
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Charred Knight
Posts: 3085 |
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Did you miss the scene where the portrayed Genetic engineering like buying something out of a catalouge? There's a scene in the first series where a hysterical mother screams at the scientist because the baby's eyes are not blue. Now I will admit that the series wasn't perfect but it certainly made sure ZAFT had depth like Andrew, Athrun, Yzak, and Dearka. Even Rau was given a pretty good backstory that explained why he viewed life like he did. I also really enjoyed the character of Mu La Flaga.
You can claim that the Earth Federation is selfish but theirs a difference between a corrupt beauracratic goverment like the one seen in MSG (one of the reasons why I consider it better than it's sequel) and a goverment that is simply Too dumb to live. I mean Zeta Gundam looks it was written by a conspiracy theorist that thinks the US President is going to start busting out the secret police and start gunning down the civilians. Also how can the Titan's not be traced back to the Earth Federation? They work for the Earth Federation, they are a special forces within the Earth Federation. Their conduct reflect back on the Earth Federation. Theirs a reason why the SS where seen during Nazi Germany and not during the term of President Bush, and that's because President Bush isn't one of history's greatest monsters. You can't just claim that a corrupt beauracratic goverment is just going to let a bunch of psychos on the loose, and they sure as hell aren't going to give those psychos control of the solar system. Now I will admit that Zeta Gundam's battles where done so well that they hold up pretty well about 25 years later. The animation is incredible for the time period and unlike Neon Genesis Evangelion holds that for the entire series and not just the first couple of episodes. The story simply does not back up the incredible art. Char gave us about a 100 different characters based off of him, Jerid gave us this guy. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UBppADAZ7xo |
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grooven
Posts: 1424 Location: Canada |
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Buu I would loved to of heard the beginning that is my favorite part. Hope we can hear something of it next week. Really sucks going through all that trouble and it not working out...how frustrating.
Toradora isn't exactly a moe show it has elements but shouldn't be labeled as such IMO. I really do think Kanon, Clannad or AIR should be given a proper try to watch as I believe they had not been watched all the way through. |
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penguintruth
Posts: 8461 Location: Penguinopolis |
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Little snippets of potential that get wasted. Athrun was as dull as unbuttered toast. Andrew spoiler[gets killed and comes back to life only to serve as a lackey of Lacus Clyne forever more.] He and Mu were probably the only halfway decent characters in the show. Rau is just batshit crazy and wants everyone to die because spoiler[he's butthurt he's dying]. In the final battle it's, "I want to kill everyone, just because! Hahahaha!" spoiler[It doesn't even make sense that Rau is so angry, since he was the favorite son. If anything, Mu had more reason to be pissed for being treated like garbage, but he got over it. Rau just comes off as a pussy who couldn't handle his lot in life.] And it's insulting that they had to bypass the real debate over genetic manipulation by making anyone against Coordinators these hilariously over the top racists, as if it would be insane to reject making allowing the wealthy make genetic supermen. The show is making it seem like you should feel bad for thinking that way. "How dare you judge this new elite class of supermen who would marginalize your very existence! You racist!" But given how dull some of these characters are, I guess it would hardly matter. You wouldn't notice who the superior beings are since they're all so lame. Coordinators are apparently genetically modified to give a damn what Brittany Spears has to say. So much for being superior.
After the horrors of the One Year War, it makes perfect sense that there would be a backlash from the victor, the Federation, who would want nothing more to do with Spacenoids, who they see as a threat to their existence. That's why it was easy to let guys like Jamitov do what they do, because they held Spacenoids in contempt. It was the reason Zeon Daikun began his revolution to begin with, because the Federation were being jerks to the Spacenoids.
But the Earth Federation doesn't care what happens in space because it tends to stay in space and gets covered up. Plausible deniability kicks in, because the Federation officials can always say they didn't know it was going on because it's in space. As long as the Titans clean up their messes they can pretend it doesn't happen.
The story is excellent, with its twists and turns and the Titans winning some victories and forcing the AEUG to have to rethink their strategy and make bold moves like team up with the Axis Zeon. There's so much going on and it has so many more dimensions than the original series. |
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PlatinumHawke
Posts: 204 |
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I totally agree that starting off with the Gundam movies is the best place to begin with the franchise. But all the way up to CCA is asking a bit much, just to get a handle on what Gundam is about.
I'd say the movies and 0080 put the message across, both thematically and timewise, than the bloatfests of Zeta and ZZ. And you can find both for about 40 bucks online fairly easily. The other set of OAVs -- 0083 and MS08th Team -- are good for additional viewing, despite the flaws of both particular entries into the franchise. Re: Takahashi It's too bad that most of his work from the 80s has not been made available in English -- regardless of means. As for Gasaraki, it tried chasing two birds and wound up catching neither. Spiritual and geo-political are two flavours that don't mix well, especially not when they're fighting for limited screen time. A shame, because the TA's were one of the better depictions of realistic mecha I've seen in anime. Also amusing to see Taniguchi lift a few ideas out of Gasaraki for Code Geass. Last edited by PlatinumHawke on Fri Jul 16, 2010 11:53 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Charred Knight
Posts: 3085 |
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Rau Le Creuset believes that spoiler[humans are selfish creatures, something the series does give him reason to believe with the actions of people like Blue Cosmos, and Patrick Zala. The series also gives hope that the two sides can reconcile and make a future] On the other hand people like Basque Ohm are just a bunch of lunatics who will kill millions of people at the drop of the hat for no reason other than they hate people who live in space. Theirs a difference between not caring and allowing your armies to commit genocide. You claim that La Creuset has crap motivations, well at least he has motives, why do the Titans do what they do? You make genocide look like everyone does it. As for the crack about idols what the hell does her ability to sing have to do with leadership abilties? Lacus was shown to be a great leader who can unite people. |
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ikillchicken
Posts: 7272 Location: Vancouver |
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It's no more absurd than the portrayal of the Titans and these cartoonish caricatures of evil, instead of having actual complex, interesting villains who are real people with their own internal conflicts. |
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penguintruth
Posts: 8461 Location: Penguinopolis |
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You're not going to make a future with a group that's entire existence excludes yours. And Rau's motivation came off as being pretty generic for all the build up they gave for him. A less charismatic Char clone I cannot think of. Even Chronicle is better. Hell, Mr. Bushido at least had an internal conflict.
And I'm supposed to believe that the ditzy pop singer is also somehow an amazing military leader? Save that type of thing for moe shows. Jamitov's motivation is political power. As long as he has it, he doesn't care what his subordinates do, and the Federation doesn't care what he does as long as they're safe on Earth. But because Jamitov is so confident that everything is being taken care of just by being an overwhelming power nobody questions, he leaves himself open for the machinations of Paptimus Scirocco, who is at least as complex as Rau, but has more presence.
Jamitov, Basque, and a few others are caricatures, but they're not the main villains, they're decoys for the ultimate villains, who are more complex and interesting. And as I said, the lack of complexity in the Titans themselves is compensated by the complexities of their origin and their effect. There is no such compensation in Gundam SEED. |
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