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NEWS: U.S. Kinokuniya Bookstores Stop Selling 5 Bishōjo Mags


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Daemonblue



Joined: 05 Jul 2006
Posts: 701
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 6:45 pm Reply with quote
Matriel wrote:
stuff


Oh I'm not forgetting anything, but this is exactly the kinf of thing that CP and obscenity laws get reduced to when brought to absurd lengths - where legal things are censored simply because some people might think they're illegal when they're really not. As people have mentioned before, it's a moral panic and people will always try to find something to blame everything on, just look at history for all the fine examples of scape goats.
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Annf



Joined: 20 Feb 2009
Posts: 578
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 6:53 pm Reply with quote
Chagen46 wrote:
....whoa, I didn't even know they sold bishoujo mags in the US.


Dammit, why do I have to live in Texas....

Eh, I live in Texas, and it's not been much of an obstacle to buying poster magazines.
If you don't like mail-order, you could always stock up annually at A-kon. Very Happy
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tuxedocat



Joined: 14 Dec 2009
Posts: 2183
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 6:59 pm Reply with quote
Now I'm curious as to whether my local Kinokuniya's (rather large) yaoi section is still there....
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Pirokoro



Joined: 18 Nov 2008
Posts: 2
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 7:36 pm Reply with quote
> [Via Sankaku Complex]

I didn't really think ANN could sink any lower than they already were, but... really, now?
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The_Q



Joined: 09 Mar 2010
Posts: 57
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 7:58 pm Reply with quote
ayashe wrote:
Quote:
I'm tired of this silly Witch Hunt that's going on. At first it was child porn, then it was pictures depicting child porn, then it was pictures depicting child nudity, and now it's... pictures depicting children?


That's probably what it's going to come to with the US government. They let people get away with insane things, but some drawings of kids? EVIL! "You may not take pictures of children, any children. You may not photograph people under the age of 18. You may not draw children, and people under the age of 18. You may not photograph or draw people who look under the age of 18. All pictures and drawings of children are child pornography!!! Twisted Evil"


I imagined this above statement being read by the Borg, and I lol'd.



Past wrote:
Hearing of this got me boiling mad, but I am retaining my composure and will try to be coherent in this post. This is more than an issue of customer complaints (a point mentioned on Sankaku Complex, not ANN) causing the store to remove an entire product line. This shows evidence of a wave of activism coming down hard any way it can to enforce their views of what's proper in popular culture (religious entities, extremist feminist and child welfare organizations?). This can't help but reek of an organized and directed assault on the freedoms and artistic expression that whoever these entities are hadn't caught wind of until recently.

After all, the UNICEF CEO has publicly stated "Freedom of Expression should be restricted."MadMad

This is something the anime industry does NOT need. Any possibility of a rebound in the industry whether it involves anime with pretty girls or not will be severely impacted by this and anime fans cannot afford to sit by idly. If you are a fan of the genre, the artwork, moe and bishoujo or not, we need to tell retailers and companies that we will not stand for this looming and growing censorship threat. It will destroy the things we have come to love and enjoy. I am truly fearful of the consequences if we don't all act on behalf of keeping anime the way it has been all along.


Funny how UNICEF says that, especially considering that have a notorious history of child abuse in every place they send their people in. Now, isn't that ironic...

And agreed. And the best way to do this is to send them a message stating why their reasoning is BS, and to not buy from them. Honestly, this paranoia needs to end. And that's all it is, paranoia.

I think someone should send the NY branch a copy of Alan Moore's Lost Girls. You know, the one that sold over 35,000 copies and it readily available in comic shops, that one. Everyone was paranoid over that release too, and you now what happened when it was published? Nothing.


Also, Fujisan has some of these mags up. The rest can be special ordered, they only do full subscriptions instead of single issues though. For singles, there is always animecornerstore, animenation, ect.
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Vyse of Arcadia



Joined: 25 Feb 2010
Posts: 1
Location: Auburn, Alabama, USA
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 8:52 pm Reply with quote
hissatsu01 wrote:
Though it still boggles my mind that these mags exist at the same time as many fans still insist that moe and sexuality are totally separate concepts. OK, if you say so. Obviously everyone didn't get that memo.

Moe and sexuality are almost the definition of intersecting sets.
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reanimator





PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:01 pm Reply with quote
Wow, look at all these people are fired up for supposed censorship and possible "child porn" from those magazines. .. Rolling Eyes

I'm not going to miss them because they're just Moe magazines that don't seem to have any long term value. I wonder people check actual content other than ogling at geek fantasy illustrations and collecting useless trinkets... Rolling Eyes
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relentlessflame



Joined: 14 Dec 2004
Posts: 188
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 9:54 pm Reply with quote
configspace wrote:
It's true that there is a variation of how explicit of the content is, though like was mention even Dengeki Hime is not exactly 18+ "hentai" or eroge by law. Much the same Aki Sora and others are also not 18+ (there was some other that had pseudo-eroge that tentacles that also was not classified as 18+ by law). I don't think is shows sex scenes with (censored) genitalia right? or not?

Dengeki Hime does show "sex scene" CGs from the eroge they cover with no more or less censorship than in the original works, so I think it would fall in the same category as the eroge do themselves. Even in the eroge industry, though, I understand that the ratings systems they've adopted are more a case of the industry policing itself than the government taking a hands-on approach. (Of course, much of what they do is precisely to keep the government from having to take a hands-on approach, so the pressure from all sides is supposed to keep things from getting too far out of hand.)

In any case, Hime would almost certainly be considered more "adult" than Moeoh, which is more "adult" than the other three (which are, again, about at late night TV anime fanservice levels overall).


reanimator wrote:
I wonder people check actual content other than ogling at geek fantasy illustrations and collecting useless trinkets... Rolling Eyes

Not to be too flippant about it, but I'm pretty sure a large part of the overall industry is built around those two concepts. And heck, Megami Deluxe is purely an artbook. ^^;

I don't think in this Internet age many people buy magazines for the content, as it'll be out of date by the time they receive it (especially when ordering from overseas). This is why these magazines have gone the illustration/trinket route.
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Joe Mello



Joined: 31 May 2004
Posts: 2255
Location: Online Terminal
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:13 pm Reply with quote
hissatsu01 wrote:
This was a business decision, not a legal one.

I argue it's both. It's Kinokuniya not wanting to risk being held liable if someone gets caught with "bad stuff" bought through them.
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P€|\||§_|\/|ast@



Joined: 14 Feb 2006
Posts: 3498
Location: IN your nightmares
PostPosted: Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:45 pm Reply with quote
Pirokoro wrote:
> [Via Sankaku Complex]

I didn't really think ANN could sink any lower than they already were, but... really, now?
Whatever could you possibly mean? With respect to anime news sites I rank Sankaku Complex #1 while ANN is ranked at #2. Yes there is a lot of raunchy stuff on there but has the quality of "You heard it here first" that ANN sometimes lacks, yet without (as much of) the trashiness of sites like 4chan.
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NegativeZero



Joined: 21 Aug 2003
Posts: 94
Location: Melbourne, Australia
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 3:18 am Reply with quote
relentlessflame wrote:
Egan Loo wrote:
Draneor wrote:
Quote:
These magazines contain no nudity and are not classified as "harmful publications" in Japan. ("Harmful publications" are a prefectural-level legal category of publications which may not be bought or read by anyone younger than 18 years old.)


Dengeki Hime is 18+ (it's stamped on the cover). Unlike the other four, Hime focuses upon offering previews for eroge. As such, it does contain pornography.


Dengeki Hime has a publisher-recommended age guideline of 18+, not a government-mandated legal age limit of 18+. There is a difference between cooperative industry standards and the governments' "harmful publications" classification, which carry the force of law.

Strictly speaking, even "harmful publications" are not "pornography" in the legal definition in Japan. That's partly why images of fictional characters can be ruled as "harmful publications" in the first place.

Regardless of the technical distinction, I think the larger point is that there is some difference in the content of the various magazines.

Megami Magazine: Monthly Bishoujo Anime Magazine, with suggestive pin-up posters (no full nudity or explicit sexual content - similar to what you'd see in a fanservicey TV anime).

Megami Magazine Deluxe: Bi-annual (or so) collection of just the posters from Megami Magazine, printed in artbook style.

Nyantype: Recently-launched competitor to Megami Magazine by Kadokawa, similar to Megami in terms of content.

Dengeki Moeoh: Bi-monthly magazine focused on bishoujo illustrations (both anime and games). Some nudity and suggestive content (including a "secret gallery").

Dengeki Hime: Monthly magazine focused on latest eroge releases. Nudity and sexually explicit content throughout.


Having all five of these magazines painted with the same brush is a bit of a broader move than might be expected, since it clearly lumps the "adult content" with the "suggestive content" as equally troublesome. I guess this just reflects the vagueness of this issue; no one's quite sure how far is too far, and it looks like Kinokuniya want to play it safe here. (That being said, as others have pointed out, if the "bar" is now set, they almost certainly carry a lot of other content that should technically fall under the same restriction.)


Nyantype's content is, at least from the handful of issues I've seen, a lot more explicit, probably more toward Dengeki Moeoh, though it's still very squarely anime focused where Dengeki Moeoh more of a mix.

It's worth noting that in the back of both Nyantype and Megami there are usually a few pages with galge/eroge etc games. Short half-page blurbs and some illustrations, usually less explicit CGs or explicit ones that they've added extra censorship to. Given how much controversy there's been around these sorts of games over the last 18-24 months I wouldn't be surprised if that is the reason for them all being dropped, with Megami Deluxe being caught in the crossfire as they're probably just dropping all of Megami and its spinoffs.

Incidentally, did Kinokuniya stock Megami Creators, and have they also dropped that? Creators is much more of an actual art magazine, where the format is basically interviews & information about a bunch of lesser-known artists and a few of their illustrations and one or two special features looking in detail at anime or game concept artwork or interviewing some of the big-name professional artists who work in the field, and I'd think if there's any that there is an "art" defense, it would be Creators...
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OldCharlieStoletheHandle



Joined: 12 Dec 2009
Posts: 1288
Location: Mastic Beach, NY
PostPosted: Wed Jul 28, 2010 5:08 am Reply with quote
I heard about this from a friend of mine, for some time I was buying Megami regularly from Asahiya Bookstore in NYC but then they shut down. I have never seen it in the Kinokuniya store in NYC but had seen an occasional issue at their booth at various conventions.

The question I have now is what about all the anime art books they carry, some of which feature pictures of "underage" girls with little clothing. I guess it won't matter to me since I have no intention of shopping with them anymore because of their spinelessness.
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Jedi Master



Joined: 28 Nov 2008
Posts: 400
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:00 am Reply with quote
hissatsu01 wrote:
Though it still boggles my mind that these mags exist at the same time as many fans still insist that moe and sexuality are totally separate concepts. OK, if you say so. Obviously everyone didn't get that memo.


Just because peanut butter and chocolate go great together doesn't make peanut butter the same as chocolate.
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Espeon



Joined: 09 Apr 2004
Posts: 105
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 1:30 am Reply with quote
Holy freak-en hell, What bull crap.

I may end up having to buy it all from ebay and have it black wraped and duct taped down so no filthy customs get to my magazine..

This retarded witch hunt is starting to tick me off.. How about you moron got hunt down people who hurt real people instead of cartoon images..
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Espeon



Joined: 09 Apr 2004
Posts: 105
Location: Australia
PostPosted: Thu Jul 29, 2010 9:26 pm Reply with quote
Just received Nyan type aug/sept. And maybe in a small way they may need to start reducing the loli content I mean one for the posters was a little to revealing for one of the characters..
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