Forum - View topic
NEWS: Black Butler Author Decries Illegal Videos, Downloads


Goto page Previous    Next

Note: this is the discussion thread for this article

Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback
View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
ArsenicSteel



Joined: 12 Jan 2010
Posts: 2370

PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:44 pm Reply with quote
and the redirect.

I was pointing out that Soba-man's the 4th conclusion assumes fans are knowledgeable of business transactions that put manga on the shelf of their local ABC mart. Saying the process is relatively transparent is not making any excuse for bootlegs.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
hissatsu01



Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 809
Location: NYC

PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:56 pm Reply with quote
MisterH wrote:

If I knew how to rip shows and subs from CR, I'd buy a subscription and anonymously distribute the rip.
Why?
Altruism. A hard concept to grasp for those only motivated by self interest.


Oh c'mon, it's not hard to find out how. Do it. For altruism's sake. There is no plight more wretched than that of the long suffering and downtrodden anime fan. God knows there's no one more altruistic and unselfish than they. It is a sacred duty to spread anime far and wide, unencumbered by the petty bourgeois concerns of those vile anime companies. Those companies who have hijacked our beloved anime from their creators - they whose sole wish is that anime be spread freely throughout the world, with nary a profit motive in their pure hearts.

Ahem...

There's a phrase I think is appropriate to this entire conversation regarding paying for anime and its relation to being a fan or not: Money talks, bullshit walks. And after nearly a day of the "arguments" against paying, this place is looking rather like the Augean Stables.


Last edited by hissatsu01 on Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:01 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
LordRedhand



Joined: 04 Feb 2009
Posts: 1472
Location: Middle of Nowhere, Indiana

PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 9:59 pm Reply with quote
ArsenicSteel wrote:
and the redirect.

I was pointing out that Soba-man's the 4th conclusion assumes fans are knowledgeable of business transactions that put manga on the shelf of their local ABC mart. Saying the process is relatively transparent is not making any excuse for bootlegs.


If I recall correctly someone who was pro-piracy said that "This is the Age of Information and ignorance is not an excuse." While I disagree with some of his position and how he used it to defend illegal distribution the positive aspect of the above sentiment is clear.

It takes but a minute to find out how the process works, probably with charts and graphs to help explain it to someone. So for example here http://ghostlightning.wordpress.com/​2009/​03/​10/​steps-​in-​anime-​production/​ and this http://knowledgenetwork.thunderbird.edu/​research/​2010/​08/​12/​andreas-​schotter/​ for a start to get going.

Throw in this RSA from another post (and on youtube no less) http://www.youtube.com/​watch?​v=​qOP2V_np2c0 is another avenue of information.

There is a wealth of information to find out about the processes involved in getting what you like to your hands, from DVD commentaries and convention panels to literally college professors posting videos on youtube to inform you.

As our legal system is set-up ignorance is not an excuse for a wrong, and especially now because it's so easy to find the information to the who, what, when, where, and why to something.
Educate yourself.

Also to the Altruism point http://www.youtube.com/​watch?​v=​hpAMbpQ8J7g&​feature=​related


Last edited by LordRedhand on Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:13 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
garfield15



Joined: 06 Apr 2009
Posts: 1361

PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:07 pm Reply with quote
BuckwheatNoodle wrote:
ArsenicSteel wrote:
Quote:

4. Most "fans" are penny pinching hoodlums who do not value how much work goes into printing, publishing, licensing, etc. and don't want to pay shipping costs to third party vendors. Boo...hoo....and these are the leeches of our anime society.


Seeing as how transparent those things are to fans, "fans", and the general public it would be hard for us to get how much work goes into them.

3rd party vendors are just parasites that latch on to other businesses products for a chance at a free meal.


Okay, are we there yet?


I think we need a death threat or two for this thread to lock lol.

We're almost epic enough for the thread to be locked. We just need to have people start calling each other f***-tards in rapid succession.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
scchan



Joined: 05 Oct 2009
Posts: 93
Location: Exeter, UK

PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:22 pm Reply with quote
MisterH wrote:
If I knew how to rip shows and subs from CR, I'd buy a subscription and anonymously distribute the rip.
Why?
Altruism. A hard concept to grasp for those only motivated by self interest.


Self interest is not always a bad thing, and there is way to play self-interest that benefits oneself and others the same time.

One of the first thing I have learned after entering real job world is that... you can be a nice guy in the office, but you still better look after yourself; you don't want to be the nice guy that get screwed.

You need doses of Romance of Three Kingdoms and Legend of Galactic Heroes.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tanteikingdomkey



Joined: 03 Sep 2008
Posts: 1449

PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:29 pm Reply with quote
hissatsu01 wrote:
MisterH wrote:

If I knew how to rip shows and subs from CR, I'd buy a subscription and anonymously distribute the rip.
Why?
Altruism. A hard concept to grasp for those only motivated by self interest.


Oh c'mon, it's not hard to find out how. Do it. For altruism's sake. There is no plight more wretched than that of the long suffering and downtrodden anime fan. God knows there's no one more altruistic and unselfish than they. It is a sacred duty to spread anime far and wide, unencumbered by the petty bourgeois concerns of those vile anime companies. Those companies who have hijacked our beloved anime from their creators - they whose sole wish is that anime be spread freely throughout the world, with nary a profit motive in their pure hearts.

Ahem...

There's a phrase I think is appropriate to this entire conversation regarding paying for anime and its relation to being a fan or not: Money talks, bullshit walks. And after nearly a day of the "arguments" against paying, this place is looking rather like the Augean Stables.

I am sure what is worse someone say crunchysubs is doing nothing wrong or being grouped with them by people here. if you want to say doing shows that are unlicensed and have a very high chance of remaining that way that is wrong but saying that crunchyroll is alutrustic..... (keep it together tantei) I can assure you just about every show that crunchyroll does is done by a fan subbing group, and while I enjoy my membership to it very much their timing and typesetting on occasion is something I would expect on a Hong Kong bootleg (the translations are great though, and they said they will start doing song translations and kara soon and they have gotten much better recently). on top of that I know all about it not being liscensed in country X dilemas (60% of the people in my group do not live in the North America or the UK). but you know what they did that work IT IS NOT right to take those videos off that site and make them downloadable.
First off the contracts with the japanese companies.
Second it denies crunchyroll it right to include advertisements on it site, and in the videos, not to mention the HD videos that you actually need a MEMBERSHIP to gain access to supposedly. that funds most of crunchyrolls operations and licenses and subbing cost.
Third 75% of the people who download from them NEVER buy the releases of the anime when it comes out in their country.
Fourth you do not release someone else work to other places without consent from them period
Fifth you encourage the troll who say nothing good ever comes out of fan subs and all fan work is evil at its core
Sixth doing that for a "moral" reason would be very hypocritical, push me button on this point and you will get the chewing out of your lifetime because I know about Altruism, and question my values like some people here have and... well "hell hath no fury like a fansubbers scorn"
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Tanteikingdomkey



Joined: 03 Sep 2008
Posts: 1449

PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:37 pm Reply with quote
[quote="garfield15"]
BuckwheatNoodle wrote:
ArsenicSteel wrote:
Quote:

4. Most "fans" are penny pinching hoodlums who do not value how much work goes into printing, publishing, licensing, etc. and don't want to pay shipping costs to third party vendors. Boo...hoo....and these are the leeches of our anime society.


Seeing as how transparent those things are to fans, "fans", and the general public it would be hard for us to get how much work goes into them.

3rd party vendors are just parasites that latch on to other businesses products for a chance at a free meal.


Okay, are we there yet?[/quote
If you think I am going to go to that level any time soon you obviously don't know me Smile though I will chew people out when it comes to fan subs it is the one topic that is touchy for me

I think we need a death threat or two for this thread to lock lol.

We're almost epic enough for the thread to be locked. We just need to have people start calling each other f***-tards in rapid succession.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
hissatsu01



Joined: 08 May 2006
Posts: 809
Location: NYC

PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:39 pm Reply with quote
Tanteikingdomkey wrote:
My sarcasm detector is completely broken.


. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ________
. . . . . .. . . . . . . . . . . ,.-‘”. . . . . . . . . .``~.,
. . . . . . . .. . . . . .,.-”. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .“-.,
. . . . .. . . . . . ..,/. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ”:,
. . . . . . . .. .,?. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .\,
. . . . . . . . . /. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,}
. . . . . . . . ./. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,:`^`.}
. . . . . . . ./. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,:”. . . ./
. . . . . . .?. . . __. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . :`. . . ./
. . . . . . . /__.(. . .“~-,_. . . . . . . . . . . . . . ,:`. . . .. ./
. . . . . . /(_. . ”~,_. . . ..“~,_. . . . . . . . . .,:`. . . . _/
. . . .. .{.._$;_. . .”=,_. . . .“-,_. . . ,.-~-,}, .~”; /. .. .}
. . .. . .((. . .*~_. . . .”=-._. . .“;,,./`. . /” . . . ./. .. ../
. . . .. . .\`~,. . ..“~.,. . . . . . . . . ..`. . .}. . . . . . ../
. . . . . .(. ..`=-,,. . . .`. . . . . . . . . . . ..(. . . ;_,,-”
. . . . . ../.`~,. . ..`-.. . . . . . . . . . . . . . ..\. . /\
. . . . . . \`~.*-,. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . ..|,./.....\,__
,,_. . . . . }.>-._\. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .|. . . . . . ..`=~-,
. .. `=~-,_\_. . . `\,. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .\
. . . . . . . . . .`=~-,,.\,. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .\
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . `:,, . . . . . . . . . . . . . `\. . . . . . ..__
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .`=-,. . . . . . . . . .,%`>--==``
. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . _\. . . . . ._,-%. . . ..`\
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tanteikingdomkey



Joined: 03 Sep 2008
Posts: 1449

PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 10:47 pm Reply with quote
[quote="hissatsu01"]
Tanteikingdomkey wrote:
My sarcasm detector is completely broken.

opps.... my bad, its been a bad day for me and this whole topic has been letting me vent, sorry about that
cool art though
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
Sunday Silence



Joined: 22 Jun 2010
Posts: 2047

PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:10 pm Reply with quote
CCSYueh wrote:
SS was saying s/he had purchased Yen titles which somehow meant s/he was a consumer of Kuroshitsuji.
It's the same logic, isn't it?


I did buy the Yen Press releases of Black Butler. I also bought the magazine while serialized Black Butler.

Guess something got lost in the translation.

So yeah, I do have the right to criticize her. And yes, she could've handled it better. In addition to scolding, tell her "fans" to buy the manga and buy the magazine where her stuff is serialized. As it stands, she just gets off as a lady who just realized her stuff was stolen by people and decided to be an internet drama queen.

And of course, I can mock some of her words, like:

Quote:
If you illegally download or view them, you’re stealing the rice from the bowls of creators and seiyuu – it’s no joke, we’ll starve and die.


Give me your address then, i'll mail you a dollar worth of rice.

Quote:
In the words of a certain steely fellow, this violates the Law of Equivalent Exchange!


Wrong when you take it to a worldwide level. You have a case with the Japanese or any other areas where it's licensed, but you're not exactly loosing money when Country Z doesn't have a licensee releasing your wet dream in their country.

Also, I never finished the new FMA but...I thought in the first anime run there was no "real" Equivalent Exchange?

Also, this area also tripped me up somehow:

Quote:
“I got it off a friend on a ROM and read it Smile

“I found them all on an overseas video sharing site and read them there Smile

“I became a fan of the second season so I watched all them on an overseas site – they were really funny!”


Didn't know she was talking about Japanese fans, not Foreign fans. Huh. But still, encourage your fans to buy instead of berating them.

And also, how do these messages result as lost sales? Does she or her publisher have physical proof that low sales = piracy? IIRC, the RIAA did this same tactic, and when called to the podium, couldn't prove bumpkins in their lawsuits against suspected pirates of their music.

I chalk it up as not admitting your current business models are starting to fail, and instead trying to put the blame on something else because it seems to be "okay."

Quote:
I thought I just don't like the whole 10 yr old chased by a bunch of 15 yr olds & dropped it


Hey, this is not a thread about jailbait, clean it up.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
agila61



Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 3199
Location: NE Ohio

PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:23 pm Reply with quote
ArsenicSteel wrote:
and the redirect.

I was pointing out that Soba-man's the 4th conclusion assumes fans are knowledgeable of business transactions that put manga on the shelf of their local ABC mart. Saying the process is relatively transparent is not making any excuse for bootlegs.


I was basically disputing both the claim and your response at the same time as being beside the point.

Whether or not fans or "fans" or audience members or whatever in the hell we are I don't want to fall back into that ultimately pointless argument over semantics ... {deep breath} ...

... understand that point four stuff does not matter for supporting fans that consume what they are entitled to and support the creators as best they can.

Not understanding the point four stuff only enters into it for people who use it as an excuse for consuming bootlegs. And like most rationalizations, "understanding" it just means that excuse is abandoned and another one is picked up.

Edit: If it was transparent, it would be easy to see how it works. Hard to see how it works is obscure.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
BuckwheatNoodle



Joined: 16 Aug 2010
Posts: 45
Location: Kanagawa, Japan

PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:27 pm Reply with quote
Sunday Silence wrote:
CCSYueh wrote:
SS was saying s/he had purchased Yen titles which somehow meant s/he was a consumer of Kuroshitsuji.
It's the same logic, isn't it?


I did buy the Yen Press releases of Black Butler. I also bought the magazine while serialized Black Butler.

Guess something got lost in the translation.

So yeah, I do have the right to criticize her. And yes, she could've handled it better. In addition to scolding, tell her "fans" to buy the manga and buy the magazine where her stuff is serialized. As it stands, she just gets off as a lady who just realized her stuff was stolen by people and decided to be an internet drama queen.

And of course, I can mock some of her words, like:

Quote:
If you illegally download or view them, you’re stealing the rice from the bowls of creators and seiyuu – it’s no joke, we’ll starve and die.


Give me your address then, i'll mail you a dollar worth of rice.

Quote:
In the words of a certain steely fellow, this violates the Law of Equivalent Exchange!


Wrong when you take it to a worldwide level. You have a case with the Japanese or any other areas where it's licensed, but you're not exactly loosing money when Country Z doesn't have a licensee releasing your wet dream in their country.

Also, I never finished the new FMA but...I thought in the first anime run there was no "real" Equivalent Exchange?

Also, this area also tripped me up somehow:

Quote:
“I got it off a friend on a ROM and read it Smile

“I found them all on an overseas video sharing site and read them there Smile

“I became a fan of the second season so I watched all them on an overseas site – they were really funny!”


Didn't know she was talking about Japanese fans, not Foreign fans. Huh. But still, encourage your fans to buy instead of berating them.

And also, how do these messages result as lost sales? Does she or her publisher have physical proof that low sales = piracy? IIRC, the RIAA did this same tactic, and when called to the podium, couldn't prove bumpkins in their lawsuits against suspected pirates of their music.

I chalk it up as not admitting your current business models are starting to fail, and instead trying to put the blame on something else because it seems to be "okay."

Quote:
I thought I just don't like the whole 10 yr old chased by a bunch of 15 yr olds & dropped it


Hey, this is not a thread about jailbait, clean it up.


She was NOT beRATING her FANS!

Learn some Japanese and read her article. She is not yelling like a madlady.

Sign up to learn some Japanese at www.livemocha.com and make some Japanese friends. Have them teach you a thing about Japanese language and culture.

Come back two years later after you've become somewhat proficient and read the article again.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
Tanteikingdomkey



Joined: 03 Sep 2008
Posts: 1449

PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:35 pm Reply with quote
I also own yen presses version of volumes 1 and 2. she does have every right to chastise people who use fan subs over official releases. could she have phrased it a lot better, definitely. the first FMA was about (in some part) there is no equivalent exchange however it works in the manga and 95% of the time in the anime so. anyway she is doing fine so we do not need to go into the whole I am broke thing ok, nor do we need to define what a fan is alright
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail
BuckwheatNoodle



Joined: 16 Aug 2010
Posts: 45
Location: Kanagawa, Japan

PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:39 pm Reply with quote
Tanteikingdomkey wrote:
I also own yen presses version of volumes 1 and 2. she does have every right to chastise people who use fan subs over official releases. could she have phrased it a lot better, definitely. the first FMA was about (in some part) there is no equivalent exchange however it works in the manga and 95% of the time in the anime so. anyway she is doing fine so we do not need to go into the whole I am broke thing ok, nor do we need to define what a fan is alright


Nothing wrong with how she phrased it.

Also, it was in her personal blog, not a newspaper.

Other than that, I agree with you.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message
GWOtaku



Joined: 19 Jul 2003
Posts: 618

PostPosted: Tue Aug 17, 2010 11:40 pm Reply with quote
Sunday Silence wrote:


Give me your address then, i'll mail you a dollar worth of rice.

Quote:

Didn't know she was talking about Japanese fans, not Foreign fans. Huh. But still, encourage your fans to buy instead of berating them.


Hmm, someone hasn't been paying attention. I know it's a long thread, but c'mon.

Quote:
Before you try to download, try to check TV to prevent from missing because they are free when they were broadcast. And, if you feel it funny or you want to watch next episodes, please buy any products including DVD, rentals, official products or CD. One is enough. Please buy the official products of anime you like. It will save the future of the work and also save the future of anime and manga industry. Please. We will do as much as possible to produce good works to entertain you.


There's your encouragement.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website
Display posts from previous:   
This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    Anime News Network Forum Index -> Site-related -> Talkback All times are GMT - 5 Hours
Goto page Previous    Next
Page 26 of 28

 


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group