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One piece is my favorite anime show .
Sub for sure. Neither dub can beat the original version.

I personally think it's incredibly redundant for anyone to say that 'nothing can beat the original version'.

First off, the 'original' Japanese isn't the original at all- the manga is. If you want to get really technical about it, the real original is the raw manga. In KANJI/whatever script they use in comics. (hiragana, katakana, I'm not familiar with the functions of any of them..). Where not a single thing has been changed.

Secondly, a dub doesn't try to 'best' it's predecessor- hell, I don't think it ever did. It just tries to 'convey the message' to the audience more FLUENTLY than the Japanese one would with subtitles. And for the most part, they do their job pretty well. In Funimation's case, they do especially nicely with the songs, and the obligatory puns (Okama/Sicko springs to mind).

Myself, I watch the dub and read the sub out of curiosity later. I don't like the idea of sitting down to eat and 'reading' the whole darn anime.. Couple that with the 'explanatory' text that is shoved at the top of the screen, which distracts from the main subtitle, which in TURN distracts from the pictures on the screen! Shocked

(Reading it on my laptop before bed? Not a problem. I actually enjoy reading in to the original contexts, it's interesting to see where things come from.)

Plus, I like listening to voices in English. The context is better adapted when it's 'Westernised', and in One Piece's case, this is actually necessary. It's a mixed bag of two different cultures- Japanese food and customs, and Western folklore spoiler[Klaubautermann, Davey Jones (Davey Back Fight) and The Flying Dutchman spring to mind]. But besides that, it actually 'speaks' more to people who don't understand a lick of Japanese. Including the accents, emphasis on words and whatnot. (Not to mention Luffy's bad singing! I just find that cute- it just works for me...)

tl;dr: Preference aside, the argument of 'which is better' shouldn't even exist, like someone said. If they 'mistranslate' a little bit, big hooey, some things just aren't meant to translate. If they tell the story wrong, it's a problem. If it's still funny/serious in the right places, and works in the context we understand, there should be no issue. :3

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I personally think it's incredibly redundant for anyone to say that 'nothing can beat the original version'.

Was that said in this thread? If yes, please quote it.
I don't get what is redundant about that.

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First off, the 'original' Japanese isn't the original at all- the manga is.

The titles of the thread says OP sub or dub and that means the context is the anime. So 'original' technically means the audio track that was either recorded for the animation and uses the script for the anime not an an adapted version.

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In KANJI/whatever script they use in comics. (hiragana, katakana, I'm not familiar with the functions of any of them..)

Their function is to make words.

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Secondly, a dub doesn't try to 'best' it's predecessor- hell, I don't think it ever did. It just tries to 'convey the message' to the audience more FLUENTLY than the Japanese one would with subtitles.

That is the same role subs do. Subs convey the meaning while retaining the original acting, emotion, and timing of the audio. A person does not need to be fluent in any language to appreciated acting, emotion, and timing.

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I don't like the idea of sitting down to eat and 'reading' the whole darn anime..

I have never been one that just has the TV on just to be on. If you want to eat and watch TV that is your business but that has nothing to do with subtitles.

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Couple that with the 'explanatory' text that is shoved at the top of the screen, which distracts from the main subtitle, which in TURN distracts from the pictures on the screen! Shocked

Learning more is not a bad thing. Distracts from what? When the mouths are flapping nothing much is happening on screen and that is when most of the subs pop up. During the action nobody is talking except for some named attacks. How distracting is seeing gumu gumu no *body part* or Hyaku Hachi Pound Hou(w/e it is translated as) go across the bottom of the screen for 3secs?

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The context is better adapted when it's 'Westernised', and in One Piece's case, this is actually necessary.

If it was necessary Oda would have done it in English. Westernizing in the case of OP is better? Funny I heard a Westernized version of OP before Funi's and it sucked completely despite being choke full of accents and American flava. Funi's version is still bad but by comparison it is not that bad.

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Preference aside, the argument of 'which is better' shouldn't even exist, like someone said.

Coke or Pepsi, chocolate or vanilla, sunny side up or down...all preferences that have no real right or wrong to them. There is no way for arguments like this not to exist.

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If they 'mistranslate' a little bit, big hooey, some things just aren't meant to translate. If they tell the story wrong, it's a problem. If it's still funny/serious in the right places, and works in the context we understand, there should be no issue. :3

and there are people that still like the 4kids version. It just shows you some folks are more forgiving, tone deaf, and care more about hearing any cartoon in English than receiving a story.

Well,

"Neither dub can beat the original version."

"Sub for sure. Neither dub can beat the original version."

"Ya just can't beat the original audio for one piece."

Three times. Also- it's redundant because everyone and their dog pesters dub supporters everywhere about the subject, and I'm pretty sure everyone's aware by now.

That in itself doesn't exactly say a whole lot, anyhow. 'It's the original, original is always better'..

That's just not true. The original could well be worse- to our ears. I mean, to me, Goku's Japanese voice for instance, and Vivi's Japanese voice. Too high for character. It just comes across that way.

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"The titles of the thread says OP sub or dub and that means the context is the anime. So 'original' technically means the audio track that was either recorded for the animation and uses the script for the anime not an an adapted version. "

It should not matter from a technical standpoint. The original, in respect of the anime, is the actual animation. Never mind the voices- they're there to give it context. They're not 'synced' in like Western animation is, save for a few of Luffy's shouts, and a few 'turning points' where a major bit of animation happens before someone's finished talking, for instance.

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"Their function is to make words."

Er, no need to be patronising, thanks. I was referring to WHERE THEY ARE USED, correct context of the writing (used on scrolls? In handwriting? In textbooks? In adverts? On wrapping? The list goes on and on). Not what they make. I know full well they make words, but the CONTEXT function they serve was something I wasn't clear on, so I was just clarifying that. Otherwise, why would there be three entirely different writing alphabets?

In any case, that was unrelated to the main issue, so why you bothered yourself with pointing out the very, very obvious is beyond me.

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"That is the same role subs do. Subs convey the meaning while retaining the original acting, emotion, and timing of the audio. A person does not need to be fluent in any language to appreciated acting, emotion, and timing. "

And if they have the same role as dubs, where's the problem?

As for timing, that's why words have to be changed somewhat. It's tricky as hell, but it's not exactly impossible to do smoothly. As for 'original emotion', that's on the assumption that Western acting has lacklustre emotion. I for one beg to differ. Actors emote, that's their job. Emoting within constraints takes skill. I for one, admire that.

Acting style is far different in Japan than you might think. An article around here a while back suggested people might not know what scope the acting really is at, unless they actually have an understand of the framework of the language in itself- the accents, the timing, all of that. Sure, you can have an appreciation for it, but you don't know FULLY how it works, unless you're actually fluent in the language yourself!

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"I have never been one that just has the TV on just to be on."

Uh... I was giving a situation in context. Also, I don't just randomly leave the TV on either... I never said that. Neutral

Point is: why watch subtitles when you could easily watch something that doesn't require more concentration than necessary? That's why I said I watch the subs later. Because I have an opportunity to give full concentration. Generally speaking, if I'm watching something on the TV, I prefer dub. That was the point I was making.

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"Learning more is not a bad thing. "

I never said that.. don't put words into my mouth. I just got finished telling you that I even READ THE SUBS later, when I don't have half my attention distracted.

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" Distracts from what? When the mouths are flapping nothing much is happening on screen and that is when most of the subs pop up."

Like I said, there are points when the animation snaps in faster than you might expect. You can miss all sorts of goings-on, like sudden appearances of characters, a joke, something in the middle of the screen, ANYTHING. It's a pain to have to rewind (not least because the Xbox controller goes into standby, and by the time it's back online, a good chunk of the next bit of animation plus dialogue has just zipped by).

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"If it was necessary Oda would have done it in English."

He did it in Japanese because his native tongue was Japanese, and his primary audience- the country he was in- was Japanese. If he wanted to that badly, he would have done it himself, yes. But he quite happily ALLOWED Funimation and select actors to dub the anime, so it's not an issue as far as he's concerned. Furthermore, what are the chances that there are enough good English/American VAs actually IN Japan, for him to organise an English dub to be made?

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" Funny I heard a Westernized version of OP before Funi's and it sucked completely despite being choke full of accents and American flava. "

Uh. There's a difference between Westernising something and completely altering the animation. Make no bones about it, 4Kids was TERRIBLE. Important scenes were missing, they edited out crap for no reason at all and they gave Sanji a... lollipop. (If you're talking about Vizmedia, were they even approved? If they were, I doubt they would have got that bad. I've heard it wasn't as good as the Funi dub, but still.)
Funimation never did any of that stuff. So,

"Funi's version is still bad but by comparison it is not that bad."

You can't just say that it's bad. Oda agrees that it works, and he understands English enough to throw in a whole smogasbord of references and words, not to mention cultural flavours. And last time I checked, the dub actually keeps in the ones that are pictured there. Like onigiri, pork buns, you name it. They don't take it out. Even Zoro's move names - Flaming Onigiri- are kept intact. Couple that with all the Baroques Works names- the only single one that was changed as far as I'm aware, was 'Bon Kuray/Bon Clay'. Subtle little jokes like those on names work well.

Say you don't like it, by all means, but don't say that it's bad- unless you've an actual reasoning from an acting standpoint, that doesn't compare to the Japanese, but focuses on an ENGLISH acting standpoint.

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"Coke or Pepsi, chocolate or vanilla, sunny side up or down...all preferences that have no real right or wrong to them. There is no way for arguments like this not to exist. "

I'm talking about 'BLACK AND WHITE' here. People actually argue this sort of thing like 'you're wrong, I'm right'. They don't accept it as a matter of preference, and this is where I really have a problem.

Like just now. You just said yourself that the Funi dub is BAD, saying it as a 'fact' rather than 'opinion'. You didn't even back up why you thought it was bad. You just wanted to have me accept it as fact, and frankly I won't. If something is legitimately bad in regards to effort and results, it will obviously show. But I'm not seeing any hard evidence for that, so I have every right to dismiss the concept as just your own opinion.

and there are people that still like the 4kids version. It just shows you some folks are more forgiving, tone deaf, and care more about hearing any cartoon in English than receiving a story.

A dub gives the same story in English, it also emotes, it also has good accents. 4Kids just flat out trashed. Just because some people are tone deaf, doesn't mean it should have any reflection on dub making in general.

tl;dr: If you want to give reasons for your preferences, you don't just say 'The original rules'. That's not a reason, by anyone's standards- which is why it's redundant. It doesn't say a darn thing about what you know- it's just a blanket statement that's been spread around the Internet like black plague.

Just to clarify, I may have quoted someone who actually said a little more than just that, I'm referring to the people who just say 'original rules' and that's the end of it. I only quoted the instances I could find where it was mentioned (regardless of what came before or after) because I was asked.

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Three times. Also- it's redundant because everyone and their dog pesters dub supporters everywhere about the subject, and I'm pretty sure everyone's aware by now.

What is redundant; the question or the answer? Neither are redundant by definition.

This thread is not about pestering dub supporters, I will just be calling that group fans. Most R1 anime DVDs have two audio tracks for the same video and some fans will form some kind of preference as to which is better. You're overreacting and launching attacks needlessly.

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That's just not true. The original could well be worse- to our ears. I mean, to me, Goku's Japanese voice for instance, and Vivi's Japanese voice. Too high for character. It just comes across that way.

That's not true for YOU maybe. Having the opinion that "original audio is always better" is true for the person that believes it. If you want to talk about Ms Nozawa's performance start a thread but beware high-pitch or not some people think her performance captures the heart Goku.

Anyway you can drum up reasons why you can't/don't want to concentrate while watching TV or somehow get distracted and possibly miss something but that is all you. Your problems, your issues, and your limitations.
You say you don't want to go through subs vs dubs but you are the one bringing up the attacks while I tried and others have done their best to just comment on why they like subs or original audio in OP.

Telling people their opinions are not valid and not to participate in a discussion is not helpful and only infuriates others.

It seems you have some hypocrisy going on since you go "tl;dr" at a long post but at the same time make your first post a long one.

Good luck. Next time I will be sure to keep my responses to you short enough to retain the attention span of cocker spaniel on meth.

ArsenicSteel wrote:

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Three times. Also- it's redundant because everyone and their dog pesters dub supporters everywhere about the subject, and I'm pretty sure everyone's aware by now.

What is redundant; the question or the answer? Neither are redundant by definition.

This thread is not about pestering dub supporters, I will just be calling that group fans. Most R1 anime DVDs have two audio tracks for the same video and some fans will form some kind of preference as to which is better. You're overreacting and launching attacks needlessly.

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That's just not true. The original could well be worse- to our ears. I mean, to me, Goku's Japanese voice for instance, and Vivi's Japanese voice. Too high for character. It just comes across that way.

That's not true for YOU maybe. Having the opinion that "original audio is always better" is true for the person that believes it. If you want to talk about Ms Nozawa's performance start a thread but beware high-pitch or not some people think her performance captures the heart Goku.

Anyway you can drum up reasons why you can't/don't want to concentrate while watching TV or somehow get distracted and possibly miss something but that is all you. Your problems, your issues, and your limitations.
You say you don't want to go through subs vs dubs but you are the one bringing up the attacks while I tried and others have done their best to just comment on why they like subs or original audio in OP.

Telling people their opinions are not valid and not to participate in a discussion is not helpful and only infuriates others.

It seems you have some hypocrisy going on since you go "tl;dr" at a long post but at the same time make your first post a long one.

Good luck. Next time I will be sure to keep my responses to you short enough to retain the attention span of cocker spaniel on meth.

I find it amazing how you managed to address nothing that he said and instead chose to ignore it completely, possibly because you haven't got any legitimate answers?
I also like how instead of giving meaningful responses you made a whole bunch of noise.
Well done my friend, well done=)

Roronoa Zoro voiced by Christopher Sabat. I think you can understand why I believe the dub is better.

If you can somehow catch up to where we are now, Ep 477 through the English dubbing. (HA) Do it!

The series is about to time skip. Greatness is about to be animated. Be there, whether you can follow on screen text or not.

Don't get me wrong. I love new fans, and their inexperience with EVERYTHING we do. So. I enjoy the eng dub, but I like the sub better.

Luffy's voice and the text (read in my head) go together heavenly. That's 10+ years of watching the show for you.

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I find it amazing how you managed to address nothing that he said and instead chose to ignore it completely, possibly because you haven't got any legitimate answers?
I also like how instead of giving meaningful responses you made a whole bunch of noise.
Well done my friend, well done=)

Sort of like what you just did eh?

What I tried not to comment on were the reasons why he likes the dub of OP along with his hefty amount of anecdotal evidence, both of which can not be refuted by me. There is not a whole lot I can say about how the 360 performs as a DVD player. Plus his reasons are very "sub v dub" and I tried to avoid that on the second post.

So that left me to try and narrow the conversation to the points he was making and the point I disagree with. Which is his opinions that others should not compare the audio tracks, others should not say their preference is original audio because it is redundant, and that his level of tolerance for errors is his own and not going to be the same for everyone.

ArsenicSteel wrote:

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I find it amazing how you managed to address nothing that he said and instead chose to ignore it completely, possibly because you haven't got any legitimate answers?
I also like how instead of giving meaningful responses you made a whole bunch of noise.
Well done my friend, well done=)

Sort of like what you just did eh?

What I tried not to comment on were the reasons why he likes the dub of OP along with his hefty amount of anecdotal evidence, both of which can not be refuted by me. There is not a whole lot I can say about how the 360 performs as a DVD player. Plus his reasons are very "sub v dub" and I tried to avoid that on the second post.

So that left me to try and narrow the conversation to the points he was making and the point I disagree with. Which is his opinions that others should not compare the audio tracks, others should not say their preference is original audio because it is redundant, and that his level of tolerance for errors is his own and not going to be the same for everyone.

Actually no=)
Wasn't disagreeing with you or agreeing with him
Just stating what you did
It'd be different if I was offering a opinion

But here is my opinion now
Saying that the original is better, just because it's the original is stupid, yet thats exactly what you said
He pointed this out
You then go on to state that this is the correct way to do things
Which is nonsense

I'm not saying that the english voices are better or vice versa
I take issue with how you presented your opinion and so did he
Thats all there really is to it

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Saying that the original is better, just because it's the original is stupid, yet thats exactly what you said
He pointed this out

Selective reading perhaps? When I first posted in this thread I called the Japanese audio the "original language track" because in the case of OP it is and then answered the question "Which is better, One Piece sub or dub?"

The shortest post says; "Sub for sure. Neither dub can beat the original version." It is a direct answer to the topic and not a sweeping generalization about subs or dubs. It implies comparisons to the 4kids, Funi, and original audio tracks.

You and AjaxDynamoDroid can go on pretending and creating an argument to defeat. I tried to get back on topic and away from his general sub v dub rant, is that the correct way to post here? Dunno. If there is a correct way to have a discussion on this board I would guess it would have something to do with actually reading posts and being on topic.

My point still stands. Just saying something's original isn't a good enough basis for liking it more, and that's something I won't back down on. That was my initial point from the get-go.

I DID NOT say I had a problem with anyone having a preference for the original audio, but simply saying 'The original is better' IS. NOT. A. GOOD. ARGUMENT. I did not say ANYONE'S OPINIONS WERE INVALID, but the STATEMENT in regards to the general opinion...!!

I fail to see how this isn't getting across to you. I did not say at any time that people can't have a PREFERENCE for the original audio, but if you don't give a reason as to why, you might as well be posting a typical Youtube comment. So forgive me if I was being a little aggressive, but I expect to see a little more contribution from the people who are just saying 'lol original rules'. Kudos to the one that actually did give more weight to their comment on such a phrase, instead of just leaving it as it was.

Also, I was also only giving my opinions on certain Japanese voices, how they felt to me. I wasn't outright saying they sucked, like you did about the Funi dub.

People can debate on and on about whether they like sub or dub till the cows come home. But the fact is, you can only really compare the WORTH of the Funi dub to the Japanese one if you have an understanding of the Japanese language/cultural tidbits, and how dubs work. Also, getting rid of the bias-glasses helps, too.

By all means, like one or the other- after all, this topic is supposed to be about what elements of the dub/sub are pleasing, what you prefer, what feels better to you. But leave 'worth' out of it, do not say Funi sucks unless you state it as a matter of opinion, or if you have actual reasoning from an acting standpoint. It's not bad just because you say it is.

Also, I love how you take my hypothetical scenario about the subs being inconvenient seriously, as if it was an argument AGAINST subs. For goodness sake, I'll say this again till I'm blue in the face: I watch it when I have full concentration, and when I can fully appreciate what's going on because I've seen the pictures before, and can make the connections without having to look too much.

But honestly, and this is all I was trying to say- it feels much more NATURAL to watch and listen to a dub. That was the only point I was making.

Lastly, ambiguous name aside, I'm a girl.

Are we done now?

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So anyway, I find there is plenty to like about the dub version. As far as cartoons go, it sounds natural enough while having exaggerated elements, but even the emotion seems right for me. spoiler[At the end of Alabasta, Robin sounded legitimately depressed when she was 'waiting to die' in the Poneglyph room.] Of all the characters, Robin was the most 'softly spoken', except for when she means business, and I thought the way she was handled was very smooth.

Also, I happen to think that even though the lines are 'doctored' into English, it has a clever way of 'playing' with the lines to make one flow into another. Such as when Robin mentioned something about 'phenomena' while describing the book to Luffy, Chopper's reaction to Luffy's interest in the book was 'speaking of unusual phenomena....', which was a clever callback, and hell, I thought it was funny.

Plus, when Sanji drinks (what he didn't realise was) rotten sauce and sticks his tongue out to ask 'how it looks', Pagaya responds with 'Like you just drank some spoiled sauce' as opposed to just saying 'sorry, it's rotten'. Following up what Sanji asked, in his own line, with the original translation intact. Thought that was neat, too.

As for the 'berries in Nami's eyes' when Nami was saying she was researching history, Chopper responded (inwardly) with sarcasm as opposed to.. just pointing out that she had Berries in her eyes. Something I thought worked better than the sub.

I think they even added to Luffy's naiive stupidity in some areas. On how the Merry was floating in the clouds:

Luffy: Clouds float, boats float, same thing!
Others: No, it's not!

I'm sure there's looooaads more I could mention, but I'd be here all day.

I have to say, one really classic moment in the original audio was Franky's reaction to 'left arm not being docked'.. "NAAAAAAAANNNNNIIIIIII?!" Hee hee...

AjaxDynamoDroid wrote:

My point still stands. Just saying something's original isn't a good enough basis for liking it more, and that's something I won't back down on. That was my initial point from the get-go.

And I can understand that. However, I have just reread this entire thread, and not once did someone say "I like the sub more because it's the original" or anything to that effect. Most of the ones who prefer the original Japanese dub give some sort of reason (personally, I said they they handle the dramatic scenes better and others mention particular Mayumi Tanaka's Luffy)

So honestly, you're acting quite silly. Nobody is saying that the sub is better because it's the original.

There are plenty of things I like that aren't in the original language. I prefer the Spanish DBZ dub for one. I also prefer Cowboy Bebop and Trigun in English. So yeah. The people saying that they like the original Japanese dub version (or more colloquially, sub) say that because they prefer it, not just because it's the original.

I just felt... repeating a worn-out phrase just didn't seem to contribute much (if anything), and not only that, the nature of it seemed a little bit 'dismissive' of other opinions. Although, that may have been me reading too much into it.. but, I guess when people don't 'explain', it tees me off. Still, plenty of you guys had something to contribute as to what you liked about the respective dubs, I don't doubt that.

I figured 'the sub is better because it's original' was implied by 'nothing beats the original', and it seems a bit of a redundant statement, because not only does a vast majority say it (over and over and over, no less) but, it doesn't really say much about what they liked about it.

Anyhow, yes, a mountain has been made of a molehill. I only meant to point out one thing, I wasn't intending on my comment being picked apart by someone being defensive, but still, I apologise for dragging it out. I hope this is the end of it now ^^;

Spanish dub? Wonder what One Piece's was like. As for German, Chopper's German voice was... very strange. He sounded a lot older, was that intentional?! It was funny in a strange way, but it seems a bit OOC lol. I think they also have.. issues with pacing words, or it may be due to German words not 'rolling off the tongue' as fluently as English and Japanese words. Definitely an issue when characters have to talk fast ala Anime.

German songs sounded pretty good though. Even though they had to replicate the audio (I think?).

The "there are no original voices, the original is the manga" argument is a cute one, but doesn't hold water. I get this a lot when in discussions about Dragon Ball Z. Funimation didn't dub the manga, they dubbed the anime. So yes, the original voices for the anime are the Japanese voices.

In my limited experience with One Piece, I find the English dub produced by Funimation to be fairly decent, but find the Japanese voices a little more capable and colorful.